Calling all Separatists!

[DasFX]

The idea of an independent Quebec has been in the spotlight for over 30 years now and shows no sign of subsiding. My question to the Separatists is why? I've heard what Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard, Gilles Duceppe, Bernard Landry and Rene Levesque have said, but what does the average Quebecer think?

Is it based solely on language? Is it preservation? Is it economic gain? Is it hatred? Is it oppression?

Also, are there any changes that could be made to the federation that would alleviate these desires of independence and allow Quebec to remain in the federation?

 

[cub1c]

I hope you know you're asking A LOT!

Independance is the vocation of a nation. Quebecers form a nation.

So the idea were and will always be there. And something nice about separatism is that it adapts itself perfectly over time, so it is always current. It is not based solely on one thing. If you just looked into the history of independance, you would see enough reasons.

Is it based solely on language? Is it preservation? Is it economic gain? Is it hatred? Is it oppression?

I think everybody can pick a reason in what you've said. For me, it's a little bit of everything. But the ultimate anwser, is to decide of our future. Québec is like a old teenager that is looking ahead to leave his parents. Canada and US are still very young country in the history! Since WWII, 100 nations obtained their independance.

Also, are there any changes that could be made to the federation that would alleviate these desires of independence and allow Quebec to remain in the federation?

No. Since 1982, Canada is stuck in the way we know now, and federalists may try to sell us, in every way possible, that it is possible to change, but it's untrue. There is no way to change that. Federal will always find a way to get into provinces competences. It's written in stone.

Canada has passed from a confederation, to a federation...what do you think is next?

 

[DasFX]

I am neither for or against the separation of Quebec. My opinion on the matter is irrelevant, I do not live in Quebec therefore it is not a matter that I can weigh in on.

I would very much prefer if Quebec remained a part of Canada. I think Quebec adds a lot to this nation and is a big part of who we are today. I do understand how Quebecers feel and can sympathize. I know their desire to withdraw from the confederation is not based on hatred of the rest of Canada, but of a desire to be the masters of their own future.

I still believe Canada could work, but only if a vastly different system is adopted. I do not think fair negotiations have ever taken place to find a solution. That being said, all provinces and the federal government would have to accept that some compromises will have to be made and that no party will get everything they want.

I'm not sure if independence will change anything for Quebec in terms of their preservation of French language and culture, or if it will be better off economically, but if that is the route that the majority of the population want to take, then it should be their right.

I think most Canadians are scared of Quebec separtion because of the negative impact it will have on the rest of Canada.

 

[HOCK]

I am sure that the average person may think separation is good or bad....I personally think that Quebec separation could start a :idea: civil war, within Quebec itself or maybe even involving the US (protecting their Northern border).
If things got too out of hand, would Quebec call on France and the rest of Canada call on the British?? Possibility of this snowballing into a world war. Have some of the smaller things been thought through like an Armed forces, what money would you use, no more federal money (if that means anything) so old age pensions would disappear and I am sure that a majority of the companies now in Quebec would pack up and leave....??

.....Since WWII, 100 nations obtained their independance....... How many of these countries existed prior to a take over of a bigger power and now, because of popular demand, funds, etc... these countries have went back to what they once were???

I am sure Separation / Independance will not be an easy thing to achieve. Can we picture a separated Canada - Ontario to British Columbia and North will become Canada, Quebec a country on its own and the Maritimes joining the US??? Could happen!!! :?: :?: :?:

 

[DasFX]

I am sure that the average person may think separation is good or bad....I personally think that Quebec separation could start a :idea: civil war, within Quebec itself or maybe even involving the US (protecting their Northern border). If things got too out of hand, would Quebec call on France and the rest of Canada call on the British?? Possibility of this snowballing into a world war.

You've got to be kidding me? A world war from Quebec Separation?

Why would the US need to protect its northern boarder? Is Quebec planning on taking Vermont with it? If Quebec fairly and legitamitely voted to separate, I would hope the Canadian government would negotiate in good faith and get it over with.
As for calling in the British, do you think they care? Quebec calling in the French, do you think they care. You must realize that they are on the same side now in the EU.

Have some of the smaller things been thought through like an Armed forces, what money would you use, no more federal money (if that means anything) so old age pensions would disappear and I am sure that a majority of the companies now in Quebec would pack up and leave....

You are really into this military thing! I'm pretty sure the desire for Quebec separation is not based on economics, but more on emotive reasons. I agree though that Quebec would suffer some emense hardship. Many companies and people would leave. I've read on the Bloc and PQ website on how they compare the population of Quebec to Norway or Belgium and how they are able to survive. They forget the fact that Quebec is massive and having a base population of only six million would make it tough to accumulate the taxes to provide the current standard of living.

As for this vision of an American Maritimes. I know they wouldn't want that and I don't think the Americans would want them (not at first at least). I'm not sure what would happen to the East Coast provinces? Perhaps they would form their own country. It probably would have a poorer standard of living. I think having the Maritimes taken over by the States would be disasterous, especially for Quebec. Giving the Americans a stranglehold on the Gulf of St. Lawrence and in essences the St. Lawrence river would leave Quebec at the mercy of the Americans.

If anything, I think America would want BC and Alberta first. First for the oil and natural resources, secondly to have the link to Alaska.

In the end, Quebec Separation would lead to us all being absorbed one by one, including Quebec.

 

[s_lone]

The problem with a fractured Canada is that English Canadian culture is way too similar to US culture. I don't think it would take very long for the English speaking provinces to join the US.

Quebec has played a major role in differenciating Canada from it's big fat neighbor. If it wasn't for the French Canadians, (who never gave a shit about the British crown) I really think there would be no such thing as Canada today and the US would be THE largest country on earth. Quebec's relatively special status and it's constant demands have shaped this country and it is not about to stop. It could very well happen that English Canadians get tired of Quebec "whining" and just push for a real reform of Canada. If Quebec is to stay in Canada for good, it will be because the province will gain true autonomy and political freedom. The nature of the Canadian "confederation" will have to change significantly in order to achieve that.

As a Quebecer, I have a very hard time seeing Canada as a nation. I rather see it as a political-economic union which CAN be positive. Canada has to be about joining forces and not about dividing them. Presently, the federal government is the big boss splitting money and every province is fighting for it's share. Let the provinces evolve freely and let THEM join together (by choice!) for common interests and for solidarity. The federal government is way too strong!

I like the image of Quebec being a old teenager ready to leave his parent's home. For now, that teenager is constantly in a bad mood because he just can't stand his parents trying to keep control. As soon as that teenager becomes truly independant, his parents will become his friends and he will learn to love them for who they really are and not for the security they give him.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

As a Quebecer, I have a very hard time seeing Canada as a nation. I rather see it as a political-economic union which CAN be positive. Canada has to be about joining forces and not about dividing them. Presently, the federal government is the big boss splitting money and every province is fighting for it's share. Let the provinces evolve freely and let THEM join together (by choice!) for common interests and for solidarity. The federal government is way too strong!

Would you agree that it is also in Quebec's best interest that the rest of Canada is not absorbed by the US? French is poised to become the 4th or 5th most spoken language in North America very soon (English, Spanish, Chinesse and possibly some east Indian language.) Really Quebec should be asking for autonomy for all provinces rather than only its own independence.

 

[cub1c]

I like the image of Quebec being a old teenager ready to leave his parent's home. For now, that teenager is constantly in a bad mood because he just can't stand his parents trying to keep control. As soon as that teenager becomes truly independant, his parents will become his friends and he will learn to love them for who they really are and not for the security they give him.

Sure there is plenty of rationnal reason about separation: financial, politics, globalization etc... But there is also a part that is beyond all of that, and the parents and teenager relation is a very good example. And this issue is not always rational.

And it's not separation that will make Québec adult over a night! But we need that first step toward maturity, like I think every province should!

Yes, I truly feel that if we have our country, it will help informing WAY MORE the ROC, and the rest of the world too, of what is Québec and what are our aspirations.

By the way. I don't know anybody in Québec, and I know lots of people , that describe themselves as Canadian.

A Québecois feels Québecois first.

The nature of the Canadian "confederation" will have to change significantly in order to achieve that.

Some people says that separatists, and french Québecers live in utopia, but I really think believeing Canada's constitution will change is the impossible dream.

 

[Numure]

The idea of an independent Quebec has been in the spotlight for over 30 years now and shows no sign of subsiding. My question to the Separatists is why? I've heard what Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard, Gilles Duceppe, Bernard Landry and Rene Levesque have said, but what does the average Quebecer think?

They why is relative. We all have our reasons. I for one, its for us. In todays world of global instability, we need to decide our own course. Our own future, our own side. The Canadian Union as defined since 1982, is killing canada. Not just Québec, but all provinces. We've enjoyed (Or we're forced too, depending on the view) our involvement in Canada. But now its time for us to part our own way. We've grown too different.

Is it based solely on language? Is it preservation? Is it economic gain? Is it hatred? Is it oppression?

Some might say its language. I doubt so. We can preserve our language just as well in Canada, as we could outside of it (Though it will be easiyer outside). Economicly, its a risk. So no, it isnt for that. Hatred? For some perhaps. But for me, no. I respect Canadians, they are great people. Just not my people or Nation.

And it isnt oppression. Its no longer oppression for the past 50 years. If theirs one thing I think Canadian have gained from the hole seperation issues, they have grown to a more tolerant culture. You have gained the ability to respect differences.

Even with all the talk of seperation, its no longer about does dam frenchies. Its about Québecers. At least, we are equals.

Also, are there any changes that could be made to the federation that would alleviate these desires of independence and allow Quebec to remain in the federation?

Canada needs major changes. A loose Union of the provinces. Provinces should have full control over their own territory and people. The federal government shouldnt have the right to perceive taxes. An amount would be given to them per capita from the provinces. Their domain of interention would be li mited, to Foreign Affairs, Military, RCMP, Space Agency and National Security. Also partial control over immigration. But that is a hole other subject.

 

[cub1c]

Changing Canada? Are people really understand how big that is?

I sincerly think it's impossible in the near-future.

And what is going to happen in the REALLY near future? A referendum.

This is a significant option for change for Quebec. And I really think Quebecers will want real change.

 

[cub1c]

RE: Calling all Separatis

Federalists should really fear the Separation Guide for Dummies of Jacques Parizeau.

1 - The Bloc sweeps Québec.
2 - The Bloc then put all their efforts into electing the PQ provincially. Bring PQ to power.
3 - Couple of weeks after, both partys work like crazy to win next referendum.

It's going to be exciting!

And what's even worst for federalists? Who is going to fight for unity? Who is going to go to the front line to convince Québecers to vote no? Stephen Harper? NO! A referendum in 2008, forget the liberals, they are gone for a decade.

Then, who?

 

[Numure]

Changing Canada? Are people really understand how big that is?

I sincerly think it's impossible in the near-future.

And what is going to happen in the REALLY near future? A referendum.

This is a significant option for change for Quebec. And I really think Quebecers will want real change.

Don't worry about that, I agree with you 100%. Notre pays, est la seule solution.

Le changement n'est surement pas possible. Mais c'est la seule solution pour le Canada.

As long as Canada doenst change, I will vote yes in a referendum. And I shall be a continued supporter of the PQ and BQ.

 

[HOCK]

Sorry DasFX, but what I wrote was only expressing "my opinion", the same as the rest of contributors.

Although "my opinion" may have been a little far feteched, I can see the possibility of civil unrest (war may be too strong of a word) within Quebec. I would, along with the majority of other Canadians, like to see Quebec remain in a united Canada. Maybe separation would work but I feel that it would take to many generations for Quebec to fully recover.

 

[DasFX]

As long as Canada doenst change, I will vote yes in a referendum. And I shall be a continued supporter of the PQ and BQ.

I don't blame voting for the BQ, it is a safe vote. Voting for the BQ is an easy way to threaten Canada without the possiblily of the threat being carried out.

A vote for the PQ is another story, but then again a vote for the PQ may only be for a change in provincial government and not necessariliy a vote for separation. 2008 is a long time from now, one cannot speculate what the electorate in Quebec will be feeling that day.

 

[bluealberta]

I hope that when the referendum comes about, all the facts are given, such as how much Quebec currently contributes to the rest of Canada financially, and how much the rest of Canada gives back to Quebec in transfer payments. This alone may make the decision for a lot of people. No one has said what a sovereign Quebec would do without the transfer payments in, which are far more than the money out. At present, speaking financially only, only Ontario, Alberta, and to a degree, BC could separate, again only on a financial basis.

As far as culture goes, it seems to a lot us that the Quebecois culture is very strong already within a country that has given Quebec a lot of protection for language, culture, etc. I think it is very iffy to think that an island of French speaking North Americans can prosper the same way within a North American ocean of English speaking North Americans. However, I support their right to make the attempt, because I truly think that once one goes, the opportunities for the rest of us will be there as well. The separatist mindset in Alberta is there, just simmering, but if the Liberals get elected again, and if Quebec has another referendum and is somewhat successful, simmering will turn into a full fledged boiling cauldron. As strange as it seems, Quebecois and Albertans generally feel the same way towards the federal government, so there is a certain sympathy for Quebec here in Alberta.

 

[Numure]

As long as Canada doenst change, I will vote yes in a referendum. And I shall be a continued supporter of the PQ and BQ.

I don't blame voting for the BQ, it is a safe vote. Voting for the BQ is an easy way to threaten Canada without the possiblily of the threat being carried out.

A vote for the PQ is another story, but then again a vote for the PQ may only be for a change in provincial government and not necessariliy a vote for separation. 2008 is a long time from now, one cannot speculate what the electorate in Quebec will be feeling that day.

Actually, the only reason the Liberals we're put inpower, was the change of leadership. It split the PQ, even now so. Not all of us support Landry.

 

[Numure]

As far as culture goes, it seems to a lot us that the Quebecois culture is very strong already within a country that has given Quebec a lot of protection for language, culture, etc.

Now that is the funniest claim I've ever heard. Canada giving us protection for our language. :lol:

That might be true for the rest of Canada. But in Québec, Ottawa has had VERY little to do with the preservation of our culture.

 

[Cathou]

I hope that when the referendum comes about, all the facts are given, such as how much Quebec currently contributes to the rest of Canada financially, and how much the rest of Canada gives back to Quebec in transfer payments. This alone may make the decision for a lot of people. No one has said what a sovereign Quebec would do without the transfer payments in, which are far more than the money out. At present, speaking financially only, only Ontario, Alberta, and to a degree, BC could separate, again only on a financial basis.

the trouble is that somebody lie somewhere... everynews paper, politician (either federalist or sovereignist) and political and economical analist here told us everyday about the transfert payment that is unbalanced and that make us send tons of money to ottawa without have much back. I even heard Harper supporter that told that when harper will be in power he will rebalance the payment so that we will have what we sould have.

and i've seen several post of people in other province that claim that quebec have everything, why every expert here claim the contrary ?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Calling all Separatis

Harper won't give you more, Cathou...he'll give you less. His main base of support are the right-wing Christian movement from Alberta. Part of their rhetoric is that Quebec gets far too much from the federal government and gives nothing back.

What the experts who say otherwise are going by is the rhetoric that Harper will renegotiate the transfer payment system so that it is fair instead of swinging one-off deals.

It is doubtful that he could manage that anyway...can you imagine ten premiers gathered in a room and Alberta (Harper's support base) saying, "We are keeping what's ours," and Ontario, where he desperately needs seats, saying, "Us too."

Political expediency would have him screwing the rest of the country in a hurry. Quebec would be badly hurt in that.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatis

Harper won't give you more, Cathou...he'll give you less. His main base of support are the right-wing Christian movement from Alberta. Part of their rhetoric is that Quebec gets far too much from the federal government and gives nothing back.

Actually Rev, Ontario is already sounding like that, judging from the reports out of there lately. And you are not really suggesting that Quebec puts more into Canada than they receive, are you? Virtually every report says there are three provinces which are a net contributor to Canada, being Ontario, Alberta, and now, BC. You also mistake our thoughts from Alberta. Most of us, including me, do not have a problem sharing, but what we would like is a little say in how it is spent, and maybe a little less left wing ranting about Alberta. We put in $12billion, get $9billion back. Heckuva deal for someone. We think that if we kept our $12billion, our health care system and our infrastructure would be the best in the world, perhaps.