The Gomery Inquiry on Sponsorship Scandals


cub1c
#1
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the different effects the Gomery inquiry has over Quebecers and the rest of the Canada, mostly the negative impact.

The Québec's media has been taken over by the Gomery inquiry from the beginning. But now it's even more. One of our multiple CNN like TV channel (LCN, --) is now broadcasting each day of this inquiry live, from the start of the day until the end. It has been followed in every details by an average 150,000 people (proven mostly Quebecers), and statistic also says that the listener follows it from the beginning to the end of the today. It is also really present in all French canadian TV channels, in the news, and so it is in every Québecers mouth. It is really clear that this inquiry has an effect on the intention of vote toward a Liberal party, either provincial or federal because it is mainly the same.

It is proven by the inquiry that there is people from our own provincial Liberal party that have been taken an active part in this scandal. The feds brought into criminal courts the business man that have been in this scandal THE DAY AFTER their names were raised in the Gomery commission. Since the inquiry explicitly told that the feds have been receiving money from these business man, nothing. Feds argument is: "We want to wait the end of the inquiry."
Wut???? Are they really getting away with this???
It clearly shows that there is two different law, one for the people and one for the government. Please post a comment if you see something else!

Quebecers can't see this inquiry end without anyone paying for what happened, and we are talking about politicians, not business sharks because we already know who they are and they already being charge criminaly.

Most reporters and politics observers agreed that this inquiry is not followed, by the rest of the Canada, like it is in Québec. This tell us a simple thing, English Canada just doesn't care (at least that's the image we get).

For the Québecois, it is really hard to understand the poor attention this inquiry gets from the English Canada. That simple fact raises a lot of concerns among Québécois.

Why are they not interested? Is the English media is a bit like the Americans? Does your total belief in federalism is so strong that you can't, or won't, see that there is a big problem? Do you really agree with Chretien clearly saying: "The unity of our country doesn't have a price, the goals justify the means."?

One of the reason this inquiry gets a lot of attention from mainly French Québécois is that it is directed by a very great guy, M.Gomery. He is becoming a real icon over here! He's an English Canadian, that does his best to speak French (which is already really appreciated!), and therefore highly respected in Québec. Quebecers really connects to him because his agenda is exactly what we want, the thruth! Sure he is a good image for the English Canada, but sadly, the only one!

We know we put a lot on Gomery's shoulder to sort this organized mess out, and right know he's doing a great job. It is a major issue here. Having no politician pay (see Chrétien) the price, would just accelerate the separatist movement, and giving them amazing arguments! A real gift from the god for the BQ! And they are not hiding it, they are planning to reverse this government at the beginning of september, probably with some allies.

But the liberals are not dumb! They already call out that they are going to lower our "impots" to counter the effect of this inquiry.

That is really taking Quebecers for dumbasses.

I really want to know the opinion from English Canada on what I said. Thanks.
 
cub1c
#2
Whooaa... sorry!
 
Vanni Fucci
Free Thinker
#3
Whoa...there's like an echo in here...
 
Reverend Blair
#4
Quote:

But the liberals are not dumb! They already call out that they are going to lower our "impots" to counter the effect of this inquiry.

What are impots?

Quote:

Feds argument is: "We want to wait the end of the inquiry."

If they don't take that stance, they will be accused of interfering in the inquiry. It's about the only thing they've gotten right throughout this whole thing.

Quote:

Most reporters and politics observers agreed that this inquiry is not followed, by the rest of the Canada, like it is in Québec. This tell us a simple thing, English Canada just doesn't care (at least that's the image we get).

It isn't that we don't care, we do, but it is not the major issue. We already knew that the Liberals were crooked and a lot of us also recognize that this thing has become so politicized that, no matter what the results, it will be largely ineffective in the end.

We are also faced with a different set of choices than Quebec. While you can vote for the PQ provincially and the BQ federally, those are not choices for us.

In Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta the provincial Liberals are pretty much a non-factor. In BC they are Liberals in name only.

We have to, realistically, face the possibility of allowing a Conservative government into power as well. They have no record of being any less crooked than the Liberals, but their policies are much more regressive and would be devastating to much of Canada.
 
cub1c
#5
Quote:

But the liberals are not dumb! They already call out that they are going to lower our "impots" to counter the effect of this inquiry.

Quote:

What are impots?

Sorry don't know (or don't remember) the exact name in English. "Impots", the money the federal and provincial government takes on your pay each week.

Quote:

Feds argument is: "We want to wait the end of the inquiry."

Quote:

If they don't take that stance, they will be accused of interfering in the inquiry. It's about the only thing they've gotten right throughout this whole thing.

I understand that, but they already interfered in the inquiry by requesting criminals action agaisnt crooked business man. Why should it be different is the defendant if it is a business man or a politician? You have to take their inaction into context!

Quote:

We are also faced with a different set of choices than Quebec. While you can vote for the PQ provincially and the BQ federally, those are not choices for us.

I clearly understand your positions on choices, and we share the same problem!! Look at it this way: do you really think we have a choice when we vote federaly? WE KNOW that BQ will NEVER win any federal election. And it is clearly stated that BQ mission is not to win an election, it is to have Québec's voice in the parliament. You have to be realistic, it is a party of minority in Canada so technically it could never access governance.

So lets talk about other choices we have federally. Feds? Skratch that. Conservatives? A big fat red X on it as it is viewed as the canadian equivalent of the american republican party. And you can count on the independance of Québec the day after the election of a Conservative government.

Now the provincial choice. It is pretty simple and straigthfoward and clearly does not do any good to our province. PLQ vs PQ, Red vs Blue, Federalism vs Independance, English vs French, Crooks vs Lesser-Crooks. Can't you see how this is tearing our province appart? It will still tearing our province appart until one of the two wins for good.

NPD? Yes a good choice! But if you look closely, you would see that PQ has almost the same agenda as Jack Layton in terms of social conscience. And anyway, I don't think this party is mature enough to govern. That said, I'm pretty sure Jack Layton would make an ideal candidate in the PQ!!!

We are eager to have REAL choice in our province. And this won't be done within Canada.

Thanks for getting in Reverend.
 
cub1c
#6
Quote:

It isn't that we don't care, we do, but it is not the major issue.

I know it is not a major issue for you, for as simple as that you are not the victims. The feds clearly took our "impot" (yours too!) money to sell federalism to us!!

That's just one of the crazy ways they used to fight bad independantist (see -> pretty much French Québecois). Federalism promotes independatist as being evil, and don't tell me I'm wrong.

Feds used your and my money, to fight independantist in their own province! I just can't accept it.
 
Reverend Blair
#7
Quote:

Sorry don't know (or don't remember) the exact name in English. "Impots", the money the federal and provincial government takes on your pay each week.

Ah, taxes.

Quote:

I understand that, but they already interfered in the inquiry by requesting criminals action agaisnt crooked business man. Why should it be different is the defendant if it is a business man or a politician? You have to take their inaction into context!

It's the RCMP investigating though. The charges are dependent on the evidence they have discovered so far. If more evidence comes out (possibly in the inquiry), politicians may be charged.

You have to keep in mind that politicians are pretty damned good at sticking to the letter of the law while finding ways around the spirit of the law. Evidence does not support convicting people for spirit though.

There is also a long tradition of political interference with the RCMP, but I doubt anybody is brave enough to try that this time around...too many people are watching for it.

Quote:

And it is clearly stated that BQ mission is not to win an election, it is to have Québec's voice in the parliament. You have to be realistic, it is a party of minority in Canada so technically it could never access governance.

They still represent you though, especially in the context of a minority government.

Quote:

Conservatives? A big fat red X on it as it is viewed as the canadian equivalent of the american republican party. And you can count on the independance of Québec the day after the election of a Conservative government.

I hope you'll be taking refugees from English Canada if that happens. I doubt I'd be very happy living under Harper's twisted religious rules.

Quote:

NPD? Yes a good choice! But if you look closely, you would see that PQ has almost the same agenda as Jack Layton in terms of social conscience. That said, I'm pretty sure Jack Layton would make an ideal candidate in the PQ!!!

We are eager to have REAL choice in our province. And this won't be done within Canada.

You could always work towards a loose coalition with the NDP.
 
cub1c
#8
Quote:

Ah, taxes.

Ah ok. Because here, taxes is the 15% you pay when buying anything, and "impots" are what they take on our salary. Two French word for it.

Quote:

There is also a long tradition of political interference with the RCMP, but I doubt anybody is brave enough to try that this time around...too many people are watching for it.

Exactly! That's why we don't see the reason of being over-protective when they want to!!

Quote:

They still represent you though, especially in the context of a minority government.

You are true in numbers, but in fact, BQ can't be happy by sharing his power with such a non-sense party like the Conservative one. So are the Québécois.

Quote:

I hope you'll be taking refugees from English Canada if that happens. I doubt I'd be very happy living under Harper's twisted religious rules.

I think no Quebecers is ready to live in a Conservative government.

You know what, we really don't pretend to be better than anybody in this world, but the fact is that we are pretty sure, given that everybody AT LEAST listen the voice of a independant Québec, would be rushing to come live here! It's basically the goal.

Quote:

You could always work towards a loose coalition with the NDP.

Sorry but this party got popular really too late. BQ and PQ had made all the progress required over all that time and is now a mature party ready to govern. Can't say the same for NPD.
 
MMMike
#9
Believe me, we care about the Gomery Commission! I follow it fairly closely. All the lies, corruption and bald faced arrogance of Chretien and his cronies are being laid out for all to see. Don't count on any criminal charges being laid against the political masterminds behind this scam, though. IMO justice will only be (partially) served through a civil suit against the federal liberal party.
 
mrmom2
Avatar
#10
Try fileing a lawsuit in this country its damn near impossible .First you have to find a lwayer who will do it.Then you have to find a judge who will let it be heard in court.The system is a joke.
 
mrmom2
Avatar
#11
Try fileing a lawsuit in this country its damn near impossible .First you have to find a lawyer who will do it.Then you have to find a judge who will let it be heard in court.The system is a joke.
 
cub1c
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by MMMike

Believe me, we care about the Gomery Commission! I follow it fairly closely. All the lies, corruption and bald faced arrogance of Chretien and his cronies are being laid out for all to see. Don't count on any criminal charges being laid against the political masterminds behind this scam, though. IMO justice will only be (partially) served through a civil suit against the federal liberal party.

You are probably right about you caring about the Bombery Commission, but I don't think your concerns equivalate the 1/100 of Québécois's concerns.

Quote:

IMO justice will only be (partially) served through a civil suit against the federal liberal party.

The problem is that it goes well beyond that. The problem is that the fear of PQ, BQ and the idea of Québec being a sovereign nation, lead Canada to corruption!

Civil suits are only there in case people really didn't get the message. Because seriously, it took us 10 years to have an inquiry about something we knew 30 years ago!

How much time will it take to have civil suits? Another 10, maybe 20 years? Chrétien will probably be dead.
 
cub1c
#13
We don't want to wait for justice to be independant! If you are asking us that, it's just plain ridiculous.

Our parents fighted for independance, and now, the youth want's to finish the job, NOW. You'll take care of your justice after.
 
MMMike
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by cub1c

You are probably right about you caring about the Bombery Commission, but I don't think your concerns equivalate the 1/100 of Québécois's concerns.

Civil suits are only there in case people really didn't get the message. Because seriously, it took us 10 years to have an inquiry about something we knew 30 years ago!

Hey, it's FEDERAL tax dollars. That means it comes out of my pocket as much (or more) than yours. This scandal has made it look as though politics in Quebec is riddled with corruption though. This is probably true to some extent. Not that Quebeckers are more corrupt then anyone else, but their unique impact on the electoral landscape has traditionally led to strenuous efforts on the part of the feds (of all stripes) to buy these votes.
 
cub1c
#15
Quote:

That means it comes out of my pocket as much (or more) than yours.

Note that we account for the 1/4 of Canada's population and the second richest province. And why aren't you concerned as much as us if it's your pocket too?

Quote:

This scandal has made it look as though politics in Quebec is riddled with corruption though.

Ok let's pause for a second.....
Did you said that federal corruption makes Québec seen as corrupted?

Quote:

...but their unique impact on the electoral landscape has traditionally led to strenuous efforts on the part of the feds (of all stripes) to buy these votes.

That's your definition of corruption?
 
MMMike
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by cub1c

Note that we account for the 1/4 of Canada's population and the second richest province. And why aren't you concerned as much as us if it's your pocket too?

Did you said that federal corruption makes Québec seen as corrupted?

I am as concerned as anyone over this waste of taxpayer money. It appears to be corruption by the Quebec wing of the federal Liberal party.
 
cub1c
#17
It's been evoked last week that they have PROOF that corruption also happenned in the Liberal Party of Québec, in conjunction with the Federal Liberal Party.

This inquiry was investigating about corruption on the FEDERAL level!!! Jean Chrétien is at the base of all, and he was the prime minister of Canada! He, and federalism, created themselves that monster!
 
cub1c
#18
Quote:

I am as concerned as anyone over this waste of taxpayer money.

I know your concerned, but I'm talking about level of concern. And it's clearly proven that concern level is VERY HIGHER in Québec.
But I'm really not pointing my finger at you! I'm pretty sure there is some people in the rest of the Canada that is as much concerned as Québecers, but it's not as GENERALIZED as in Québec! It's a fact.

Now what concern Québécois bigger, is that someday, sometime, they will be told by the federalists: "Get over it!".
 
shamus11
#19



Stuck in Liberal Status Quo

By

James Bredin

Liberal abuse of power is not extraordinary,
Accepted because it’s not out of the ordinary,
Close down the Gomery inquiry with intrigue,
To hide corruption of their money laundering league.

Distract our attention here and there curiously quick,
Send money to Africa because they’re poor and they’re sick,
And Mr. Mugabe of Zimbabwe bank account is down,
Send peacekeepers to help him move around.

Help out at the United Nations with Kyoto and that,
But can’t go to Iraq in case there’s combat,
And that oil for food business comes back to haunt,
Point a finger at the opposition and taunt.

Secret numbers, secret payments but ‘twas ever thus,
The UN or Ottawa not open to discuss,
Shawinigan shenanigans, Sadam or adscam stuff,
Buried in bureaucracy and they say that’s enough.

Married to the status quo and they’ll never change a thing,
Allow abortions, same-sex stuff or even swing,
But no referendums, recall or set election dates,
No proportional representation or any of these debates.


Thursday, March 24, 2005


http://tinyurl.com/6fzgg
 
s_lone
Avatar
#20
Does anybody know about the recent developments of the inquiry? There's been a publication ban and it seems some very juicy stuff has been revealed that could seriously harm the reputation of the Liberals... The media are not aloud to reveal anything about it. The Liberals will be given the right to counter-interrogate the witnesses because of the risks to their reputation... Anyway, there is a lot of gossiping going around and I'm just wondering if anyone has more information on this....
 
Reverend Blair
#21
The information was leaked to a Republican blogger in the US. The general feeling is that it was a Conservative who leaked it. The RCMP will investigate that. The Liberals have asked the RCMP to investigate the testimony to see if fraud has been commited against them.

We're seeing the results of corruption from both sides. We're seeing political games being played instead of justice being sought or problems withing the system being addressed.

Voting for the Liberals or the Conservatives at this point is voting for continued corruption. There are alternatives on both sides on the political spectrum. Take them.
 
tibear
#22
take a look at --. It may contain the information that you are looking for.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
Avatar
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by cub1c

Quote:

It isn't that we don't care, we do, but it is not the major issue.

I know it is not a major issue for you, for as simple as that you are not the victims. The feds clearly took our "impot" (yours too!) money to sell federalism to us!!

That's just one of the crazy ways they used to fight bad independantist (see -> pretty much French Québecois). Federalism promotes independatist as being evil, and don't tell me I'm wrong.

Feds used your and my money, to fight independantist in their own province! I just can't accept it.

Cubic, I'm not happy with the outcome of the sponsorship. But your provincial government uses your tax dollars on promoting an independent Quebec. Maybe not in the same way, but it's still happening under your nose.

Unfortunately, politics and tax money don't mix very well. It's bound to go sour. But unfortunately in every system since the inception of mankind, politicians have always had control of your money.

By the way, I would support education of separatists because in most cases, person-to-person, they have no idea what they are talking about. In French or in English
 
Reverend Blair
#24
There seems to be a lot of confusion between the Sponsorship Program and the scandal that's grown out of it.

The reality is that the Sponsorship Program was a perfectly legitimate government initiative. It is not the scandal, no matter whether you agree with the program or not. Don't confuse the two.
 
MMMike
#25
I disagree, Rev. Based on the latest info, the main purpose of this program was to funnel money to the Liberal party. Far from a legitimate program!
 
Reverend Blair
#26
The main purpose of the program was to promote Canada within Quebec. It did that. The corruption is a separate issue and pertains to the goals of the program only in that the corruption would have negatively effected the program even it wasn't discovered.
 
doug
#27
Actually, the main purpose of the program was to disguise and hide the funds being transferred to the party as funds intended for a unity or soveriegn canada.
 
Ten Packs
#28
Astoundingly typical: on Global National tonight, they read a few emails from viewers re the scandal. One person (from Ontario, of course!) wrote; "It doesnt matter WHAT my beloved Liberals do - they will always be the Party for me."

Brass-poles......
 
Reverend Blair
#29
I love brass poles, Ten Packs...they remind me of strippers and broken cue sticks and the days when the bastards would actully let you smoke in a bar.

You'll find that kind of blind support for any party though...including the Cosmopolitans or Neopolitans or whatever they're called. Check them out. They need votes...don't seem to have a platform.

The reality is that then Liberals do well because they run from the left and govern from the right though. That gives them the fear vote coming and going. It's a beautiful strategy...like a well-placed bunt. If they didn't piss me off so much I'd be tempted to vote for them out of pure admiration of political strategy.
 
shamus11
#30


Envelopes Stuffed with Thousand Dollar Bills

By

James Bredin

Was it unmarked envelops stuffed with thousand dollar bills?
Worthy of the mafia money laundering skills,
We’re so lucky because we still don’t know who was at fault,
As revealed at the Adscam Inquiry by Jean Brault.



Because this Adscam information is still coming out,
As we wait with baited breath but no one has a doubt,
Just how many of the Chretien clan were involved?
Will this adscam sovereignty mystery ever be solved?



Because the Adscam is where public opinion counts,
They discussed huge numbers of varying amounts,
Our taxpayers’ money manipulated here and there,
And all this went on and we were not aware.



Was it about the Red Book or the ethics they preached?
And did you know that prime ministers cannot be impeached?
And you cannot vote for your prime minister,
And he decides to walk or stay or to administer.

:P

He picks the judges and the senators that you can’t question,
About their hidden vested interests and this is not repression,
But this information like the Adscam stuff is unknown,
Will they try to close it down or will they postpone?

Friday, April 08, 2005

E-mail the guy who wrote it...
--

click here for information on the Adscam Hearings
 

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