The roots of anti-Americanism in Canada

alienofwar

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Mar 2, 2005
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Saying 'no' to U.S. was very Liberal

By Salim Mansur -- For the Toronto Sun


Beneath the heartfelt expressions of anger, dismay or satisfaction among contending classes of Canadians over their government's refusal to participate in the U.S.-sponsored Ballistic Missile Defence for North America, there is nothing new save the manner in which Paul Martin arrived at his decision.

Much of Canada's history during its first hundred years amounted to an exertion against America in defining the arguments for a country determined to resist the pull of the great republic on the continent.

This was the conservative romanticism of English Canadians attached to traditions connected with Britain, and the French in Quebec, holding to those values of the church laid waste by revolutionary France.


Through these ten decades the Liberal party of Laurier and King, St. Laurent and Pearson, was continentalist of one sort or another, and pessimistic about Canada's future in the shadows of the United States.

The guru of Canadian liberalism and of the Liberal party through the middle decades of the last century, Frank Underhill, observed in In Search of Canadian Liberalism (1960):

"Our forefathers made the great refusal in 1776 when they declined to join the revolting American colonies. They made it again in 1812 when they repelled American invasion. They made it again in 1837 when they rejected a revolution motivated by the ideals of Jacksonian democracy ... They made it once more in 1867 when the separate British colonies joined to set up a new nationality in order to pre-empt expansionism ... It would be hard to overestimate the ... energy we have devoted to this cause."

In other words, to the chagrin of Underhill and his party, Canada was a project born out of refusal to be a part of the progressive liberal history represented by the United States.

But then the same Liberal party that for so long preached the virtues of continentalism, reinvented itself under Pierre Trudeau as the standard- bearer of Canadian nationalism with its anti-American heartbeat.

This Liberal brand of anti-American nationalism became more strident as English Canada, accepting the logic of closer ties with the U.S., supported Brian Mulroney and the Conservative party as they negotiated continental free trade agreements.

For Quebec separatists -- rising in influence to nearly achieving their end -- the lure of independent statehood meant distancing themselves from English Canada, hence the U.S., while gazing across the Atlantic towards France and Europe as the shore to drift towards in search of their linguistic security.

New immigrants

Into the breach flowed waves of new immigrants from Asia, Africa and South America, some from former colonies of Europe, bringing their own loyalties and resentments, and providing numbers to give ballast to Liberal politics just when the party might have been shut out in both English and French Canada.

The refusal of John A. Macdonald and his conservative coalition of English and French Canadians, as Underhill implied, to embrace the United States was an essential element in the making of a country in the 19th century. Their nationalism was old-style patriotic loyalty to traditions they cherished, and they devoted themselves to keeping these alive when republicanism was considered too radical and disruptive.

But traditions conservatives held dearly were hollowed out by history and circumstances in the years since Canada celebrated its centennial year. Instead, we got multiculturalism devised by Liberals to outmanoeuvre both English and French Canada electorally.

To be a multicultural country means to be fragmented, and to have the people pulled in different directions with no common loyalty except what can be negotiated at the lowest common denominator of unstable interests.

Hence what was once the great refusal amounting to nation-building became strident anti-Americanism to bind an increasingly divided country, adrift in its own falsely induced uncertainties by a political party whose sole interest is perpetuating its hold on power, by whatever means and at whatever costs.
Mansur is a professor of political science

at the University of Western Ontario

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Salim_Mansur/2005/03/07/952487.html
 

zenfisher

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Sep 12, 2004
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How come tenpacks is the only one that can seem to put up a link that works? I would have like to read more to comment on this.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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How come tenpacks is the only one t...ld have like to read more to comment on this.

Because he's the only one who uses the "url" button at the top.

I like how complex everyone seems to make this subject. They like to over-simplify and call it "anti-Americanism" but what it really is, is the recognition that Canada, and most of the world, has very different values than those espoused by the United States and its leaders.

Those different values cause us to disagree with the policies of the United States. Instead of recognizing that it is they who are out of step, the Americans just point fingers and saw that we are being anti-American.
 

Jay

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Jan 7, 2005
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"But traditions conservatives held dearly were hollowed out by history and circumstances in the years since Canada celebrated its centennial year. Instead, we got multiculturalism devised by Liberals to outmanoeuvre both English and French Canada electorally.

To be a multicultural country means to be fragmented, and to have the people pulled in different directions with no common loyalty except what can be negotiated at the lowest common denominator of unstable interests.

"Hence what was once the great refusal amounting to nation-building became strident anti-Americanism to bind an increasingly divided country, adrift in its own falsely induced uncertainties by a political party whose sole interest is perpetuating its hold on power, by whatever means and at whatever costs. "

Great artical.

Notice the word devised....


I like how complex everyone seems to make this subject. They like to over-simplify

I hate to nit pick but, complexity through over-simplification? I don't get it.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: The roots of anti-Ame

Yeah, I was less than clear ther, Jay...too much multi-tasking.

What I meant was the make it as complex as possible, then come up with an over-simplification as a reason.

"The roots of anti-Americanism in Canada are the policies and practices of the United States." One sentence, not an article. I could expand it with another sentence..."What is often termed anti-Americanism is actually an assertion of the values of Canada." Look at that...two sentences. Not complex.

Now consider the article...it finds complex reasons for what it considers anti-Americanism, building up a straw-man, then gives an over-simplified response, "It's all Trudeau's fault, damned Liberals."

It's an op-ed piece, and not a well-researched one. The points it makes are questionable. "To be a multicultural country means to be fragmented, and to have the people pulled in different directions with no common loyalty except what can be negotiated at the lowest common denominator of unstable interests."

Really? Have any proof of that? I know plenty of hyphenated Canadians. A lot of them are my relatives. They are loyal to Canada, though. A lot of that loyalty is because of the respect their cultures are given.

This article attempts to devise a construct in order to argue with Canadian assimilation with the policies of the US and the values those policies grow from. Since Canadians are not Americans and have quite different values, such a supposition is inane, even ridiculous. The author tries to cover that up by presenting a needlessly complex, questionably factual, case.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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It's an op-ed piece, and not a well-researched one. The points it makes are questionable. "To be a multicultural country means to be fragmented, and to have the people pulled in different directions with no common loyalty except what can be negotiated at the lowest common denominator of unstable interests."

Really? Have any proof of that? I know plenty of hyphenated Canadians. A lot of them are my relatives. They are loyal to Canada, though. A lot of that loyalty is because of the respect their cultures are given.

Didn't the French in Quebec want to separate? How is that for proof? They wanted to be different... their own culture. That is proof right there.

I know that you are trying to make it simple. However you make the statement...

"The roots of anti-Americanism in Canada are the policies and practices of the United States."

... as if it were fact. That is not what all Canadians are saying as the article attests to.
 

Mooseskin Johnny

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Dec 23, 2004
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You won't get all Canadians to agree on anything, any more than getting all USians to agree on something or all French, or Spanish or Toga Islanders. It's a standard human equasion: we disagree. So, why is it such a problem if a lot of Canadians disagree with a lot of Americans?
 

EagleSmack

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Re: RE: The roots of anti-Americanism in Canada

Mooseskin Johnny said:
You won't get all Canadians to agree on anything, any more than getting all USians to agree on something or all French, or Spanish or Toga Islanders. It's a standard human equasion: we disagree. So, why is it such a problem if a lot of Canadians disagree with a lot of Americans?

Well said Moose. That is what I was trying to tell Rev. Thanks for backing me.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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Didn't the French in Quebec want to separate?

No, some of the French in Quebec want to separate.

How is that for proof?

Pretty unconvincing considering you got the facts wrong and revealed your ignorance of the political situation in Canada and Quebec.

They wanted to be different... their own culture.

And they were unsuccessful largely because they are allowed to have their own culture right here in Canada.

I know that you are trying to make it simple. However you make the statement...

"The roots of anti-Americanism in Canada are the policies and practices of the United States."

... as if it were fact. That is not what all Canadians are saying as the article attests to.

Actually, according to polls, that is what most Canadians are saying. Our disapproval of the US is driven by their policies, not by geography. Iraq is the big one, trade is second, US foreign policy in general is third. There have been several polls showing similar results.

Canadian opinion about the USA ebbs and flows depending on the policies of the US government but, in general, we disapprove of the actions and policies of Republican presidents more than with Democratic presidents (Johnson was the big exception to that). That kind of pattern is to be expected because we generally elect governments that are to the left of both of your parties.

Well said Moose. That is what I was trying to tell Rev. Thanks for backing me.

That isn't what you've been saying though. What you have been expressing is near rage that we would dare to criticize your government. Guess what? Everything your government has done for the last five years has had an effect on us, usually negative. You can bloody well expect to be criticized under those circumstances.
 

EagleSmack

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In 1987 the Meech Lake constitutional accord recognized Quebec as a "distinct society" and transferred extensive new powers to all the provinces. Quebec promised that it would accept the 1982 constitution if the accord was approved by all the rest of the provinces. The House of Commons ratified the Meech Lake accord on June 22, 1988, but the accord died on June 23, 1990, after Newfoundland and Manitoba withheld their support. A new set of constitutional proposals hammered out by a parliamentary committee was agreed upon in 1992. They called for decentralization of federal powers, an elected Senate, and special recognition of Quebec as a distinct society. In a referendum held in October 1992, Canadians decisively turned down the constitutional changes. Quebec voters narrowly rejected secession from Canada in a 1995 referendum.


Ok... what part of this is false? This is cut from a Canadian webpage.

"Norrowly rejected" sounds pretty accurate to what I was saying. lol
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Near rage?


Nah... I enjoy this. This is fun.

Just take it easy on the Edit button would you my friend!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Ok... what part of this is false? This is cut from a Canadian webpage.

Your presentation of it is dishonest, though I doubt you have the wherewithal or enough of a grasp of Canadian politics to understand that. You posted it without understanding the context or the issues involved. For instance, do you know why and how Manitoba rejected Meech Lake?

Do you know about the controversy of the wording of the referendum question? Do you comprehend that our federal government didn't campaign for most of the referendum? Do you understand that PQ and BQ leaders haven't held a referendum lately because there is little support for it? Did you realize that they've said as much in front of live mics with the cameras rolling?
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
Ok... what part of this is false? This is cut from a Canadian webpage.

Your presentation of it is dishonest, though I doubt you have the wherewithal or enough of a grasp of Canadian politics to understand that. You posted it without understanding the context or the issues involved. For instance, do you know why and how Manitoba rejected Meech Lake?

Do you know about the controversy of the wording of the referendum question? Do you comprehend that our federal government didn't campaign for most of the referendum? Do you understand that PQ and BQ leaders haven't held a referendum lately because there is little support for it? Did you realize that they've said as much in front of live mics with the cameras rolling?

Hey I am just reading what they say. What they say and what you say are different. It seems like it was closer than you originally alluded to and divisions were a lot deeper. Almost racially divided from some of the things I read about it.

But hey ...you're the expert.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: The roots of anti-Ame

You can look up the entire story, EagleSmack. You are just reading what you want to hear because, in the context you present it, you think it supports your argument. You are wrong in that.

A native MLA in Manitoba refused to support the Meech Lake Accord because it did not properly address native issues. It really had nothing to do with Quebec at all, other than the fact that he had the support of natives from all over Canada, including Quebec. The result was that the accord was scuttled.


You can look up the rest yourself, if you really want to learn. If not, then I guess I'll just keep correcting you.
 

EagleSmack

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Re: RE: The roots of anti-Ame

Reverend Blair said:
You can look up the entire story, EagleSmack. You are just reading what you want to hear because, in the context you present it, you think it supports your argument. You are wrong in that.

A native MLA in Manitoba refused to support the Meech Lake Accord because it did not properly address native issues. It really had nothing to do with Quebec at all, other than the fact that he had the support of natives from all over Canada, including Quebec. The result was that the accord was scuttled.


You can look up the rest yourself, if you really want to learn. If not, then I guess I'll just keep correcting you.

Correcting or editing....

I am not sure how long this will stay up there.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: The roots of anti-Ame

Well, if you can't find it later it's because you aren't looking. Quit bitching.

Why don;t you do something constructive with your time like going and learning about the real history of separtism in Canada. You should likely Google the FLQ manifesto and the Quiet Revolution.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Re: RE: The roots of anti-Ame

Reverend Blair said:
Well, if you can't find it later it's because you aren't looking. Quit bitching.

Why don;t you do something constructive with your time like going and learning about the real history of separtism in Canada. You should likely Google the FLQ manifesto and the Quiet Revolution.

I'll quit complaining when I am treated fairly. You have been butchering my posts.

I will gladly look up these things. I am a big student of the US Civil War and how the tensions eventually led to seccession. So when Quebec was talking about secceding I was interested then.

At the time of this Quebec Referendum/Crisis (whatever you want to call it) I was working in Boston in the Electrical Union. Now most of the Union Drywallers were French/Canadian. Some would actually drive down from Canada each morning. They sort of kept to themselves. There was not much mingling between them and other trades. This was not just one project... every Union Job had French Canadian Drywallers from Canada and NH.

My buddy was reading the paper as we sat around the gang box and he asked me what I thought about this referendum. I said I thought it was interesting and I wonder if they will be allowed to leave. Then my buddy said in his best French accent..

"Vie vill bealed a Great Vall ov Sheed Ruck avound KABECK."

I spit my drink out all over the floor laughing.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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I'll quit complaining when I am treated fairly. You have been butchering my posts.

You've been treated fairly. If you want to be treated unfairly, then just keep up the whining.

In the meantime, I will edit any further complaints you mix into your posts. I will continue to leave anything that is on-topic and not a personal attack or superfluous complaint about the mods here. Understand?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
I'll quit complaining when I am treated fairly. You have been butchering my posts.

You've been treated fairly. If you want to be treated unfairly, then just keep up the whining.

In the meantime, I will edit any further complaints you mix into your posts. I will continue to leave anything that is on-topic and not a personal attack or superfluous complaint about the mods here. Understand?

Yes I understand :roll:

It is crystal. :roll: