Big Brother in Canada?

alienofwar

New Member
Mar 2, 2005
40
0
6
Mar. 7, 2005. 01:45 AM

Say no to Big Brother plan for Internet


MICHAEL GEIST

During the Internet boom of the late 1990s, Nortel Networks ran an advertising campaign that featured as its slogan, "what do you want the Internet to be?" The implications were obvious — the Internet was a technology of unlimited possibility that could be whatever we wanted it to be.

More than five years later, Nortel's vision is becoming reality. The Internet has become so essential to the every day lives of millions of people — a pillar of communication, information, entertainment, education, and commerce — that at times it seems as if the Internet really is anything we want it to be.

Notwithstanding the Internet's remarkable potential, there are dark clouds on the horizon. There are some who see a very different Internet. Theirs is an Internet with ubiquitous surveillance featuring real-time capabilities to monitor online activities. It is an Internet that views third party applications such as Vonage's Voice-over-IP service as parasitic. It is an Internet in which virtually all content should come at a price, even when that content has been made freely available. It is an Internet that would seek to cut off subscriber access based on mere allegations of wrongdoing, without due process or oversight from a judge or jury.

This disturbing vision of the Internet is not fantasy. It is based on real policy proposals being considered by the Canadian government today.
Leading the way is the federal government's "lawful access" initiative. While the term lawful access sounds innocuous, the program, which dates back to 2002, represents law enforcement's desire to re-make Canada's networks to allow for lawful interception of private communications.

If lawful access becomes reality, Canada's telecommunications service providers (TSPs) will be required to refit their networks to allow for real-time interception of communications, to have the capability of simultaneously intercepting multiple transmissions, and to provide detailed subscriber information to law enforcement authorities without a court order within 72 hours.
Moreover, Canada's service providers will be subject to inspections and required to provide the government with reports on the technical capabilities of their networks. These activities will be shrouded in secrecy with service providers facing fines of up to $500,000 or sentences of up to five years in jail for failing to keep the data collection confidential.

All of these changes come at an enormous cost — both financially (hundreds of millions of dollars in new technology) and to our personal privacy. While some changes may be needed for security purposes, the government has yet to make the case for why the current set of powers, which include cybercrime and wiretapping provisions, are insufficient. There has been no evidence provided that this approach is the least privacy invasive alternative.

Refitting the network is not limited to government initiatives. In recent weeks it has become apparent that the network providers themselves may seek to interfere with the free flow of data. For example, Vonage (the leading independent Voice-over-IP provider) recently filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission in the U.S. alleging that an unnamed Internet service provider was blocking its service. Last week, the provider agreed to stop and to pay a fine to the FCC.

In a less publicized incident, the Communications Commission of Kenya last week ordered the state-owned Telkom Kenya to restore service to Sema VoIP, another Voice-over-IP provider which is backed by Canadian-based BMT North America. The Commission warned Telkom Kenya against taking similar action in the future.

The issue raised by these cases is not new. Observers have long feared that ISPs would succumb to economic self-interest, engaging in "packet preferencing" by blocking or slowing data coming from competing sites or services. While service providers are quick to argue that they want merely to serve as intermediaries without regard for what traverses their networks, as they offer competing Internet phone services, music download services, and other value-added content, there will be a clear temptation to create a home network advantage.

In fact, at the CRTC hearings into VoIP last fall, the parent company of at least one major provider gave every indication that it did not view third party services favourably. Quebecor, which owns Videotron, told the Commission that services such as Vonage contributed nothing to the development of facilities-based competition and that "the service provider's VoIP-based service is totally parasitic on the local access facilities of other carriers."

As the leading Canadian ISPs roll out their own VoIP services, many may look at competing services in the same way and seek to limit the use of their network. Stopping such interference requires a strong CRTC, yet with Industry Minister David Emerson's planned review of Canada's telecommunications law, some industry experts fear that Canada is heading in the opposite direction.

The Minister of Industry, together with Liza Frulla, his Canadian Heritage counterpart, are also reportedly about to finalize new rules that may reshape the availability of Internet content to educational institutions. Acting on the recommendation of a parliamentary committee that was chaired by Toronto MP Sarmite Bulte, the government may soon unveil a new "extended license" that would require schools to pay millions of dollars for content that is currently freely available on the Internet.
While the committee recommendation excluded payment for content that is publicly available, it adopted the narrowest possible definition of publicly available, limiting it to only those works that are not technologically or password protected and which contain an explicit notice that the material can be used without prior payment or permission.

Moreover, those same ministers are also contemplating a new system that would allow content owners to file a complaint with an ISP if one of their subscribers has allegedly posted infringing content. Canada's rules for child pornography still require a court order before content is removed, yet if the Canadian Recording Industry Association and other well-funded interests get their way, the ISP will respond to a mere allegation of copyright infringement by "kicking the subscriber off the system."

With Canada conceivably ready to adopt rules that make it far easier to remove an allegedly infringing song than to remove dangerous child pornography from a new fee-based, surveillance-ready, packet preferenced Internet, it is difficult to overstate how out of touch our Internet policy process has become. Is this really what we want our Internet to be?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Geist is the Canada

Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa. He can be reached by email at mgeist@uottawa.ca and online at http://www.michaelgeist.ca.

Additional articles by Michael Geist
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Big Brother in Canada

You forgot to mention that the driving force behind these proposed laws is the Bush adminstration. It was at their insistence that the Canadian government instituted the security bill, really a baby Patriot Act, that this is a part of.

You also didn't mention that is is the left side of the political spectrum that is opposing laws such as this in both the US and Canada, my little alien buddy.

Of course you didn't mention any of that because instead of putting up your own thoughts and a link, you took somebody else's copyrighted material without understanding the facts behind it or the political context it was written in.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
One fine line to cross here is to charge a small amount for access to every internet site. Then, those without credit cards [to make that payment with] will be left out. Those with credi cards will give out their personal information, and if they post anyting it can be traced back to an actual bank account, of which the holders are fully indentified including their current address.

So thats not good!

Hey Rev. you sure told aliens-for-war , but its a bit harsh - we all copy other people's words occasionally without fully understanding or agreeing with the author we stole from {so is it really plagurism then?].

But your point is well made. So, How is it that the Left are being the vangaurd for freedoms when the Conservatives are supposed to be the "smaller government is better" people?

Karlin
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
There is no right or left there both false choices they get into power and change nothing .The only thing that changes is there buddys get our tax money.Don't worry about credit card access worry about thumb scan access.
 

bogie

Electoral Member
Jun 21, 2002
681
0
16
75
Barrie, ON Canada
maltesefalcon.bogart.com
Big hullabaloo about nothing. Stuff like this gets "good press", as it is controversial.

Next to impossible to implement, and would only create an underground economy for Internet access - by whatever means.

Lot of talk, but I doubt we will ever see any real action - or legal implementation. Monitoring an individuals Internet movements will most likely land up being like monitoring phone calls - requiring legal justification and warrants. I have no problems with that.

Remember that we are dealing with "government", and they do not move quickly, or decisively. Even after decisions are made, implementation is another story. The scope of such a project would be massive, and far-reaching - let alone financially impactful on the general economy.

Expect to see some Spam laws eventually, but even then our political structure is pretty open-minded. Look at the P2P decisions here in Canada - or lack of. Canada is more of a laissez-faire environment.

The horse is out of the barn - rounding it back up, let alone controlling it on the open range, will be next to impossible
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
LOL.... Bush Bush Bush

IT's ALL AMERICA'S FAULT... Waaaaa! Waaaaa!

How pathetic are you Rev? Geez!
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
63
Larnaka
Re: RE: Big Brother in Canada?

EagleSmack said:
LOL.... Bush Bush Bush

IT's ALL AMERICA'S FAULT... Waaaaa! Waaaaa!

How pathetic are you Rev? Geez!

Well Bush is the reason behind a lot of our problems today. Don't try to deny it :) However, I have to agree with Rev. A lot of the anti-privacy bills are inspired by the moves by the Bush administration. Whether or not they are influencing the Canadian government by actually approaching them, I don't know.

Why do you call Rev pathetic EagleSmack? Your rebuttals are far less effective.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Hey Rev. you sure told aliens-for-war , but its a bit harsh - we all copy other people's words occasionally without fully understanding or agreeing with the author we stole from {so is it really plagurism then?].

It's clearly copyright infringement. News agencies are concerned about it because it affects their revenues. A writer (though not usually in the case of large news agencies) may also be paid by the click. Putting a link up ensures the people who did the work get paid.

It would just make sense that if you liked what somebody wrote or published enough to use it, that you'd want them to get paid for their work, wouldn't it?

If you want to, start a thread on it.

But your point is well made. So, How is it that the Left are being the vangaurd for freedoms when the Conservatives are supposed to be the "smaller government is better" people?

The left, or progressives, have been the ones promoting rights and freedoms in North America for a very long time. The civil rights movement, free speech movement, etc. are very much rooted in leftist politics. That's why you so often see groups like the ACLU and even international groups like Human Rights Watch villified for being left-wing. That they also defend conservatives on a regular basis does not affect the attacks from the political right.

The political right has little use for rights and freedoms because those threaten the corporate power structure to a large degree. When you most often hear them trying to invoke personal rights and freedoms is after they have libelled somebody or are trying to justify a political view that breaks hate crimes laws.

Lot of talk, but I doubt we will ever see any real action - or legal implementation. Monitoring an individuals Internet movements will most likely land up being like monitoring phone calls - requiring legal justification and warrants. I have no problems with that.

And yet we have people going to trial without knowing what the evidence is against them or even what they are charged with. We've had reporters followed by the RCMP and OPP and arrested for writing stories. Biometric data has been suggested as good thing to have on what amounts to an internal passport and, although the government backed down on making citizens carry an internal passport, landed immigrants have one. Cards with iris scan data is being used to "speed entry" into the US right now, and if you are a truck driver you really have no choice but to submit to it.


Ottawa is under constant pressure from the US to "tighten up security" and countries like China and Iran have been quite successful in limiting internet access to approved activities. Meanwhile the US uses programs like Predator to scan for keywords that might get you labelled a terrorist.

LOL.... Bush Bush Bush

IT's ALL AMERICA'S FAULT... Waaaaa! Waaaaa!

Do you have any facts, Eaglesmack? No? Gee that's surprising. :roll:
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Yes the Reverend's "rolling eyes" responses are highly effective.

That is his typical response to opposing views. His other responses are just telling the opposition to go away and that their opinion is not welcome.
 

alienofwar

New Member
Mar 2, 2005
40
0
6
Im sorry, the link to this article didn't show up. Anyways, I found it at the Toronto Star and the link is http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...le&cid=1110150624459&call_pageid=970599119419

Anyways, Reverand Blair, what the heck is wrong with you man? Have you been so indoctrinated by the left that you have lost all common sense? Obviously you only skimmed the article.

"You forgot to mention that the driving force behind these proposed laws is the Bush adminstration. It was at their insistence that the Canadian government instituted the security bill, really a baby Patriot Act, that this is a part of."

I looked this up, I have no idea where you got this information. First of all terrorism is only one of the reasons out of many for even implementing this rule. If you look at this link http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/summary/faq.html it will explain the reasons for implementing these rules. Also they explain that this is not in response to 9/11. And if Canadians can reject the missile defense deal....then I suppose to guys can reject other proposals from the U.S if you feel it inteferes with your privacy.

Anyways, I have no idea why you have to bring the Pariot act into this, lol, its ridiculous really.

"You also didn't mention that is is the left side of the political spectrum that is opposing laws such as this in both the US and Canada, my little alien buddy."

What?? Did you even read the article???? These are proposals brought up by the current Ministers in power! Come on, give me a break Reverend. Also, what your saying is so broad. Saying that the left wants more freedom and the right wants more restrictions, lol. Its more complicated than that "little buddy". If your actually referring to the Patriot act...thats different, this was in response to 9/11. Conservatives do want freedom, but only in a responsible matter such as the Patriot act which was necessary and has been successful in nabbing potential terrorists. Your basic rights have not been taken away. Conservatives in the U.S respect them very much, in fact, they never shut up about them. The only people who want to restrict freedom are the socialist leftists who have taken over Canada. You find such ridiculous laws from the far left, such as in B.C where it is the law to wear helmet when riding a bike, even if your an adult. I agree with bicycle helmets, but to force this on people is going the wrong way and takes away from your individual right of self-determination. Also, the fact that you dont have right over private property and you dont have the rights to bear arms in Canada and 1 billion dollars was put into this ridiculous gun registry program and for what?? It was a waste of money, wasn't effective and does nothing to take the guns out of the criminals! You think criminals will abide by the law and register their guns??? Only liberals can come up with such a ridiculous idea.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
the patriot act does nothing to protect your rights alienofwar all it does it take them away those that give up there rights will always lose there liberty and i agree our goverments no better there constantly taking more of our money and more of or rights and i say its all by design we all argue against bushs policies because what happens down there will happen here and i for one don,t want to live in a police state :x
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
17
38
8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Actually Alien, the way I remember it is that soon after 9/11 the US passed the Patriot Act...then they went after Canada because security was too lax, and put pressure on them to adopt tougher anti-terrorism laws...and our government acquiesced to their demands because they kept calling Canada a "haven for terrorists"...

...so yeah, we, and a few other countries, were bullied into passing our own liberty restricting versions of the Patriot Act...
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Big Brother in Canada

The pressure the US put on our government to tighten security is a reality, Alien. They were talking about closing the border, shutting down trade, etc. Our government caved in.

That was in the news here from the very beginning of this debacle. For you to try to deny it shows a complete lack of knowledge of what happened.

Your denial that it was the left who opposed this shows an ignorance of Canadian politics that seriously undermines any modicum of credibility you might have had. It was Bill Blaikie and the NDP who stood up to oppose the Security Bill. It was also the NDP that spoke out against what would have amounted to an internal passport, the NDP that first spoke out against the illegal arrest and deprtation of Maher Arar, the NDP who have stood up every single time your government put pressure on Canada to take rights and freedoms away from Canadian people because George Bush is a F**k up.

Doubt it? Go read Hansard. It's available on the internet.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Re: RE: Big Brother in Canada?

mrmom2 said:
the patriot act does nothing to protect your rights alienofwar all it does it take them away those that give up there rights will always lose there liberty and i agree our goverments no better there constantly taking more of our money and more of or rights and i say its all by design we all argue against bushs policies because what happens down there will happen here and i for one don,t want to live in a police state :x

The Patriot Act has not changed my life one single iota.

Not one bit...

Although I am not trying to do anything illegal either.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
alienofwar said:
Im sorry, the link to this article didn't show up. Anyways, I found it at the Toronto Star and the link is Tornoto Star

Anyways, Reverand Blair, what the heck is wrong with you man? Have you been so indoctrinated by the left that you have lost all common sense? Obviously you only skimmed the article.

"You forgot to mention that the driving force behind these proposed laws is the Bush adminstration. It was at their insistence that the Canadian government instituted the security bill, really a baby Patriot Act, that this is a part of."

I looked this up, I have no idea where you got this information. First of all terrorism is only one of the reasons out of many for even implementing this rule. If you look at this link http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/la_al/summary/faq.html it will explain the reasons for implementing these rules. Also they explain that this is not in response to 9/11. And if Canadians can reject the missile defense deal....then I suppose to guys can reject other proposals from the U.S if you feel it inteferes with your privacy.

Anyways, I have no idea why you have to bring the Pariot act into this, lol, its ridiculous really.

"You also didn't mention that is is the left side of the political spectrum that is opposing laws such as this in both the US and Canada, my little alien buddy."

What?? Did you even read the article???? These are proposals brought up by the current Ministers in power! Come on, give me a break Reverend. Also, what your saying is so broad. Saying that the left wants more freedom and the right wants more restrictions, lol. Its more complicated than that "little buddy". If your actually referring to the Patriot act...thats different, this was in response to 9/11. Conservatives do want freedom, but only in a responsible matter such as the Patriot act which was necessary and has been successful in nabbing potential terrorists. Your basic rights have not been taken away. Conservatives in the U.S respect them very much, in fact, they never shut up about them. The only people who want to restrict freedom are the socialist leftists who have taken over Canada. You find such ridiculous laws from the far left, such as in B.C where it is the law to wear helmet when riding a bike, even if your an adult. I agree with bicycle helmets, but to force this on people is going the wrong way and takes away from your individual right of self-determination. Also, the fact that you dont have right over private property and you dont have the rights to bear arms in Canada and 1 billion dollars was put into this ridiculous gun registry program and for what?? It was a waste of money, wasn't effective and does nothing to take the guns out of the criminals! You think criminals will abide by the law and register their guns??? Only liberals can come up with such a ridiculous idea.

Alien... who says liberals have to post facts? They never post facts because the facts dispute their lies.

Your example of Rev blaming Bush for the Canadian implementation of its security bill and his lack of information is perfect.

It is telling.

Facts to liberals are useless... JUST WIN BABY!