How do we come across to minorities?

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Okay, I don't exactly know where this thread might go, but I have been noticing something bothersome while on my bicycle rides through town.

I see, as I approach minorities of one kind or another, and especially Sikhs and old people (I consider old people a minority because they get treated as one), their faces tense in anticipation, a protective wariness comes over them - until I smile and say hello, then they look relieved, grateful and smile.

To me, this is terribly wrong. What is happening to those segments of society that such a scenario should ever take place? Does the Stupid White Man population send out waves of disapproval? I am appalled.

At a drop-in clinic one day, a Sikh dad was there with his lovely daughter, maybe six years old, or so. There was a Stupid White Woman sitting by the magazines and childrens books. When the little girl went over to get a book, the woman actually recoiled in disgust and shifted away from the little girl with barely concealed hostility. I wanted to go over and slap her bloody silly.

Many years ago, I had an incident in Vancouver in a parking arcade. An Indian couple came driving along too quickly and I had to slam on my brakes to prevent an accident. I made a face and a gesture, they did too, then I drove off and parked. Within a minute or so, it occurred to me that it just wasn't right, what had happened, so I walked over to them and apologized, even though it had not been my fault. They went from extremely tense and hostile to so unbelievably warm, I was stunned.

People have told me that Indians are 'pushy' and 'rude'. I have to ask them, 'wouldn't you be too, if you were treated the way they are treated?'

What kinds of messages do we convey to others as we go about our day? Are we impatient with old people who don't move fast enough or can't hear us when we mumble? Do we look away at a person of another culture because we feel ambiguous about how we feel? Do we subconsciously snub them in a myriad of ways?

Do we have any idea how much quality of life we strip away from these people when we behave as we do? Do we not recognize the power of such social shunning?

 

[researchok]

Growing up in Quebec as an anglophone (the fact that I'm bilingual is irrelevant) at once made me a minority and not a minority.

As an anglo, I was resented, notwithstanding the fact that I was no nowhere near the Plains of Abraham, knew neither Montclam or Wolfe personally and never insulted any of my francophone neighbors (save the jerk who smashed my knees playing street hockey. Yes, it was intentional).

Still, perceived as a member of once colonial class, I was a minority. Truth be told, speaking french at times only exacerbated things-- because it was unexpected and thus upset the apple cart and perceived prejudicies. Like minorities everywhere, there were good days and not so good days, as you can imagine.

Flip the coin. I grew up in a priviledged part of the city, surrounded by other anglos. The politics, as I heard and understood it at the time (I was a child) was that we were surrounded by a sea of marauding barbarians that were only to eager to relieve us of our homes, language, culture and religion. When the FLQ reared it's ugly head and kidnapped and murdered Pierre Laporte an James Cross, there was almost a satisfaction-- "see-- that's what you can expect." Dark days.

Of course, that all changed when I grew up. Reality hit. Anglos were guilty of terrible crimes- that of ambivilance and chosen ignorance. Francos were guilty of choosing to completely negate the anglos experience in Quebec. To this day, ask any anglo who moved to TO and elsewhere if he misses Montreal and 'la belle province' (there was a reason it was called la belle province') and you'll get a wistful and longing for that lost 'special place'.

Why post this personal insight? Because it answers your question, haggis.

There are no quick fixes, no short answers.

Water finds its own level.

Realtions in Quebec are better now than ever- -because people are talking to each other in their own language-- not as a matter of politics, but as a matter of respect. People are slowly acknowledging each others relevance, fears, needs and visions.

Took a long time-- too long.

No the battle for politicalQuebec isnt over- and may never be-- but that's OK. People are talking, living and blending. Franco-Anglo marriages are up, schools are teaching both languages and bilingualism has become a highway for all Quebecois.

Think about it.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Think about it.

Well said, Research, and a terrific snapshot. I think I understand what you are saying:

People have to sort through these things in their own way in their own time, in other words, and by doing so they come out the other end with a far stronger bond and more deeply felt understanding than if a law is passed that forces them to behave in a certain way. A law forces people to hide rather than resolve prejudices, whereas time and intermingling offers humanness, to which we all respond.

It takes years of exposure to achieve such understanding. It takes a willingness on each person's part to 'hear' the other. Then something changes in the heart.

A small war was averted the day I apologized to the Indian couple for something I had not done, but I think I was apologizing for their experience in Canada, I was apologizing for what white people too often do to others or, as you point out, what any people in charge do to the people under their thumb, and vice versa.

 

[researchok]

Think about it.

Well said, Research, and a terrific snapshot. I think I understand what you are saying:

People have to sort through these things in their own way in their own time, in other words, and by doing so they come out the other end with a far stronger bond and more deeply felt understanding than if a law is passed that forces them to behave in a certain way. A law forces people to hide rather than resolve prejudices, whereas time and intermingling offers humanness, to which we all respond.

It takes years of exposure to achieve such understanding. It takes a willingness on each person's part to 'hear' the other. Then something changes in the heart.

A small war was averted the day I apologized to the Indian couple for something I had not done, but I think I was apologizing for their experience in Canada, I was apologizing for what white people too often do to others or, as you point out, what any people in charge do to the people under their thumb, and vice versa.

In the end, you can't legislate culture- and that is what many froncophones think will preserve the special character of Quebec. In reality of course, the best way to preserve a culture is to share that culture-- and that is what is happening now.

Would it have happened without the separatistes? I don't know, and in the end, doesn't matter.

Self defensiveness on a cultuarl level never works. What does work is the efforts extended by either side to see and listen their respective realities. Nature will take it's course.

Perfect case in point-- Jews. What was once a largely misunderstood and deingrated group has evolved into a mainstream (and many would have a good case to say highly admired, as a group) and accepted group. They have contributed to and become part of our culture and we now routinely borrow from their experiences, share the humor etc.

They are likeus, princes and scoundrels, brilliant and boring.

All with the pasage of time.
All in time, haggis..all in time.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

They are likeus, princes and scoundrels, brilliant and boring.

This is absolutely true. Funny, too, that prejudice doesn't just work in one way - ie seeing the other as evil, stupid, whatever - it works the opposite way as well - seeing the other as wiser, better.

We all do it to some degree - who amongst us doesn't see a smiling, slightly befuddled little old lady and immediately attribute to her all the finest human traits? Never mind that she might be the devil incarnate. We have labeled her, put her into a convenient package. We might look at Indians and say they are so spiritual, so gentle. Or that Jews are more intelligent, that blacks have rhythm. It isn't necessarily that these things aren't true, but that it is wrong to characterize anybody in this way.

I think by viewing people in such rosy terms it dehumanizes them in a way. When men put women on a pedestal, so to speak, they do the same, they are dehumanizing that woman and not loving her for who she really is.

Funny, though, isn't it? I mention it because I tend to be harshest in my view of caucasians and most benign in my view of almost everybody else. I believe in the states this is called being a bleeding heart liberal, and EVERYbody hates a bleeding heart liberal, the minorities topping the list of hating them.

I feel sorrow and regret for all the terrible hurts that minorities suffer every single day in their lives when they are living in another country. The small hurts, the ones that make an Indian look wary when he sees me coming, until I smile and he sees that it is alright. Those are the ones that affect me greatly.

You're right that we can't legislate kindness, all we can do is instill it in our children.

 

[researchok]

Not much too add-- with the exception of calling yourself a 'bleeding heart liberal'.

In truth, politics has much in common with parenthood.

If youre overprotective, well, that's good when a child in an infant, not so good when child is a teenager.

If youre more of 'laissez faire' type, that isn't so hot with infants, but could be great with teenagers.

My point is, there really isn't one kind of politics that fits all, all the time. We have our own views of course, but deep down we know we can't always be right, no matter how much we want it to be so and no matter how much our ego wants to be so.

Yes, I'm more conservative in many area's-- and I'm also a 'bleeding heart liberal' in others. I don't apologize for it nor see it a 'political' flaw-- indeed, I see it as a stregnth.

I let my morality guide me. There are rights and wrongs-- and I will support the hings I believe in, regardless of political stripe.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

I let my morality guide me. There are rights and wrongs-- and I will support the hings I believe in, regardless of political stripe.

I like this, Research. And although I say 'bleeding heart', to be honest I have two levels, one is an intellectual level and the othe is a gut level. My gut level is great empathy for minorities, my intellectual level seeks ways to make life better for them. Thank you for clarifying, I used a bad choice of words.

 

[researchok]

No apology needed.

I think we put too much emphasis on labels at time-- such as you CANT have that view, youre a political___, as if somehow we must ALWAYS tow the party line, as if who we are can't be our moral guide. I abhor that kind of fanaticsm-- and thats exactly what it is, political fanatacsim.

The way I see it, look inside yourself for the answers, not to a party, political party or plank. That way, the choices you make are YOURS and moral.

If people did that, they'd find less anger and more peace in their lives

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

This is very true and makes one ask, why do we do as we do? Why are we such slaves to societal strictures? I am, ahem, somewhat well known for not being that way, not fitting into one single societal expectation, but others spend an enormous amount of time conforming.

Why do you think this is? To gain acceptance? But what value acceptance if it is gained by being something other than yourself?

 

[researchok]

I think its a matter of acceptance and personal unsureness or self awareness.

 

[peapod]

This place is just full of great topics. I find it very strange that people are so threatened by other cultures. If the world was only anglo saxon white it would be a very boring place.

Not long ago my friend and I decided we would you down and watch the gay pride parade. Neither of us had ever been to one. I enjoyed the experience. I mentioned it later to another friend that I had gone to the parade, her respond was "people are going to think you are gay now" I was astounded by what she said. So I reached over and pinched her ass, and said that wouldn't be so bad would it? :lol: and no I am not gay. But I support their right to be who they are.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

I would love to see a gay parade. Our daughter went to the one in Vancouver last year, loved it. So much fun, happiness and good will... and especially so much free-spiritedness. She brought back a 'love sees no gender' t-shirt for me which I love to wear. In fact, my daughter and I have always enjoyed holding hands when we walk around in public, and many people have thought, I'm sure, that we are gay.

I spend at least 300,000,000,000th of a second each year agonizing over what people think of me.

We had one interesting experience when she was a teenager. We were on one of our mother-daughter-Thelma-Louise road trips, careening our way through the States. We stopped late at night in Salt Lake City, and the front desk guy almost refused us, but since we had reservations he just acted disapproving instead. You could see his little tiny mind creating up all sorts of images.

Back to the Sikhs, those very serious older gentlemen with their turbans do intimidate some people, you're right, yet they have nothing but the warmest smiles and little hand waves when they are on the receiving end of same.

Funny and maybe corny, but isn't it amazing what a mere smile can accomplish?

 

[peapod]

Haggis I find the turban thing so silly Its a religious thing, a becon to all other Sikhs who are of the same faith. How is it different than the catholic who wears a cross around their neck? Really the symbiotic relationship between ants and aphids is far more interesting than people's nik picking about what somebody wears on their head, after all nobody has a problem with that crazy hat the pope wears. Oh oh I might get into trouble over that one :? I just think its a ruse to cover up narrow minded thinking.

Your thelma and louise story was great, I am just glad you did not decide to drive off the a cliff when it was over :wink: It certainly is a world of assumptions and most of the time they are wrong...where is that brother of yours researchok? Maybe his date showed up after all.

I am so lucky that I am female, I can use both sides of my brain at the same time, I can still do my work and post these "whats it about alfie messages to you. Like martha says "its a good thing!

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Like martha says "its a good thing!

... or as Apple programmers are wont to say, 'it's a feature, not a bug!'

I find cultural differences to be beautiful, I love what is different. We used to live in a lily-white neighbourhood. It made me feel stifled, we now live in the most multi-cultural part of an admittedly pretty white-assed town, and it makes me much, much happier to have some flavour around me. When I'm out and about, I want to see diversity, not sameness.

The turbans are handsome on those who wear them. There is a dignity, to my eye. I've found that the dress of different cultures is almost always appealing, more so than the strange thing that passes as fashion in our 'culture'... and I use the term loosely.

I am attracted to non-conformists, one-step-out-of-step people, oddballs, crazies and contrarians. They suit me best. Normal people who hang out with me find themselves doing stuff that makes them laugh but also makes them feel not only 'out of the box' (hate that, that's trend-speak) but out-and-out 'out of their mind' which is, from my point of view, a good place to be.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

PS to the above, these words by Kris Kristofferson says it well:

Jesus was a Capricorn, he ate organic foods,
He believed in love and peace and never wore no shoes.
Long hair, beard and sandals and a funky bunch of friends,
Reckon they'd just nail him up if he come down again.

'Cos everybody's got to have somebody to look down on,
Who they can feel better than at anytime they please.
Someone doin' somethin' dirty, decent folks can frown on,
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me.

Eggheads cussin' rednecks cussin' hippies for their hair,
Others laugh at straights who laugh at freaks who laugh at squares.
Some folks hate the whites who hate the blacks who hate the clan,
Most of us hate anything that we don't understand.

 

[peapod]

Music the universal language I am partial to old Rusty, Neil Young, I got to see him in Vancouver in February.


"Throw Your Hatred Down"

Here in the conscious world
We place our theories down
Why man must bring us
to our knees
Before he sees the weakness
of his sinful plan
The power in his hand
Will never touch a friend

Throw your hatred down
Throw your hatred down

[solo]

Meanwhile in the underworld
The weaknesses are seen
By peasants and presidents
Who plan the counter-scheme
Children in the schoolyard
Finish choosing teams
Divided by their dreams
While a TV screams

Throw your weapons down
Throw your weapons down

[solo]

The wheel of fortune
Keeps on rollin' down
The street that's paved
with sinful plans
There but for circumstance
May go you or I
Dressed in gold lame
Find a place to stay

Throw your hatred down
Throw your hatred down
Throw your hatred down
Throw your weapons

 

[Diamond Sun]

Just a quick story, I was out at fast food joint the other day (sorry...had a craving) and there was this old couple in line in front of me. They were very hard of hearing and kept asking the cashier to repeat himself, needed him to physically show the salads while he said them, and were taking a lot of time to get their order in.

The woman directly in front of me was muttering and tsk'ing under her breath and showing absolutely no patience, or tolerance.

The old lady looked back and you could see the shame in her face, she caught my glance and I gave her a big smile. You could literally see the relief exuding from her. She was so prepared for people to be angry at them that she was shocked by my smile. It made me feel good, and probably made her feel even better.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

The old lady looked back and you could see the shame in her face, she caught my glance and I gave her a big smile. You could literally see the relief exuding from her. She was so prepared for people to be angry at them that she was shocked by my smile. It made me feel good, and probably made her feel even better.

Diamond Sun, I sure do love what you did, I love that you told us this story, and oh, I wish everybody would do the same.

 

[Diamond Sun]

I always try to smile at people that look like they are afraid that others are getting mad at them. There is nothing so important in my life that I can't wait for another 30 seconds with a smile on my face.

 

[peapod]

Diamond Sun don't beat yourself up over the fast food thing, its a steady diet of the stuff that will get you You have awareness and that's the biggest hurdle. I myself have been forced to eat at that evil clown's place on occassion :wink: when certain visitors insist on having a meal at the clowns house.

Seniors do get a ruff time, I see it all the time, working in non-profit senior housing. The worst is how they are taken avantage of finiancially
. Your story made me think about a rather funny story regarding a senior. Once I was at a crosswalk with an X. A elderly man who looked like he was at least a 100 had stepped out into the crosswalk. He had two canes and could barely walk, you could see it was a great effort for him. His snail pace was making my X very angry he began to honk his horn and make jesters and yell and scream. The elderly man never turned or acknowledged the circus that was in front of him but continued on his snail pace. This made X even more angry. Just before the senior passed our car he turned ever so slowly and raised his hand and gave the X the finger and told him in very nasty swear words in both english and french what he thought of him. It was so unexpected, I started to laugh which made X mad as a hatter. Thats why X marks the spot now, peapod does not like to be around mad hatters Everyone is so angry and in a big rush to go nowhere and they take it out on innocent people.