Member
Posts: 58 
Location: Red Deer Alberta
Location: Red Deer Alberta
June 16th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Does anybody in this forum agree that Stephen Harper will make a much better PM than Paul Martin?
Is it fair to say he will make some much needed changes in Canada?
What do you think of his current platform?
Is there something you want to see thrown out or added to his platform and his partys platform?
I think he will make Canada proud.
Does anybody in this forum agree that Stephen Harper will make a much better PM than Paul Martin?
Is it fair to say he will make some much needed changes in Canada?
What do you think of his current platform?
Is there something you want to see thrown out or added to his platform and his partys platform?
I think he will make Canada proud.
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
June 16th, 2004, 02:15 PM
I think Harper would be the downfall of the Canada we love and cherish. He will finish what Mulroney started, giving Canada away to the Americans. He will make the rest of the world hate us as they now hate the Americans. He will take away many of our social programs for the sake of lower taxes, even though we need the programs and the taxes are quite bearable. He will be Canada's Tony Blair, nothing but a Bush toady.
In the final analysis, and in my view, Harper isn't Canadian in his thinking, for Canadians still have a strong sense of caring, of humanity, and this is reflected in our strongly socialist governmental policies. I'd not change that for the world.
I think Harper would be the downfall of the Canada we love and cherish. He will finish what Mulroney started, giving Canada away to the Americans. He will make the rest of the world hate us as they now hate the Americans. He will take away many of our social programs for the sake of lower taxes, even though we need the programs and the taxes are quite bearable. He will be Canada's Tony Blair, nothing but a Bush toady.
In the final analysis, and in my view, Harper isn't Canadian in his thinking, for Canadians still have a strong sense of caring, of humanity, and this is reflected in our strongly socialist governmental policies. I'd not change that for the world.
Newbie
Posts: 4
June 16th, 2004, 03:10 PM
I firmly believe that there is only one true candidate in this election and that is Paul Martin. I am a Paul Martin fan, but in all honesty I think it's tragic that there is only one good candidate. Why don't people realize that the current Conservative Party is nothing but a fragmented version of the Alliance/Reform party. There is little or nothing left of the former Progressive Conservative feel and yet, they are obviously trying to ride that into some votes as well. I was never much of a fan of the former P.C.s, but they were light years ahead of any opposition the Liberals are confronted with today. June 28th will be a sad day in our history if the Conservatives win the election. I am quite embarassed by the choices in Canada these days. If it were not for the Martin Liberals, I would be afraid of the future.
I firmly believe that there is only one true candidate in this election and that is Paul Martin. I am a Paul Martin fan, but in all honesty I think it's tragic that there is only one good candidate. Why don't people realize that the current Conservative Party is nothing but a fragmented version of the Alliance/Reform party. There is little or nothing left of the former Progressive Conservative feel and yet, they are obviously trying to ride that into some votes as well. I was never much of a fan of the former P.C.s, but they were light years ahead of any opposition the Liberals are confronted with today. June 28th will be a sad day in our history if the Conservatives win the election. I am quite embarassed by the choices in Canada these days. If it were not for the Martin Liberals, I would be afraid of the future.
June 16th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Paul Martin is not a viable option.. Not in my books.
Paul Martin and Stephen Harper are both pretty much in the same boat. I've said before, but I will repeat: They are both in it for personal and corporate gain, that's where it ends. Neither care about Canadians and their future.
(by the way, welcome to Canadian Content NSSM)
Paul Martin is not a viable option.. Not in my books.
Paul Martin and Stephen Harper are both pretty much in the same boat. I've said before, but I will repeat: They are both in it for personal and corporate gain, that's where it ends. Neither care about Canadians and their future.
(by the way, welcome to Canadian Content NSSM)
Super Genius
Posts: 1,366
Location: Within arms reach of the new baby..
Location: Within arms reach of the new baby..
June 16th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Stephen Harper is an excellent choice for those who value americanization over canadian identity, for those who no longer wish to be welcomed into other countries when travelling, for those who long to wear the stars and stripes with pride, for those who are taking backwards steps in tolerance and acceptance, for those who support tax cuts for big business, for those who see the $2 billion invested in the Canadian military as necessary and more important than health care, and for those who are anxious to join in slaughtering and humiliating the people of Iraq.
Stephen Harper will erase what makes Canadians separate from the Americans and will redraw a country that only George W Bush could be proud of.
If you value all the above, then by all means, vote for Stephen Harper, for he is your man.
Stephen Harper is an excellent choice for those who value americanization over canadian identity, for those who no longer wish to be welcomed into other countries when travelling, for those who long to wear the stars and stripes with pride, for those who are taking backwards steps in tolerance and acceptance, for those who support tax cuts for big business, for those who see the $2 billion invested in the Canadian military as necessary and more important than health care, and for those who are anxious to join in slaughtering and humiliating the people of Iraq.
Stephen Harper will erase what makes Canadians separate from the Americans and will redraw a country that only George W Bush could be proud of.
If you value all the above, then by all means, vote for Stephen Harper, for he is your man.
Newbie
Posts: 4
June 16th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Thank you, for the warm welcome, Andem. I'm curious, if you feel that Martin and Harper are equally bad, what do you think the alternative is? I don't think the NDP has the right vision to lead, although they would certainly change the social policy of the country. What are your thoughts?
Thank you, for the warm welcome, Andem. I'm curious, if you feel that Martin and Harper are equally bad, what do you think the alternative is? I don't think the NDP has the right vision to lead, although they would certainly change the social policy of the country. What are your thoughts?
June 16th, 2004, 03:59 PM
NSSM: You can always vote the smaller independant parties. Here are some:
Canadian Action Party
The Green Party
Communist Party (that's _NOT_ an endorsement)
Marxist-Lenin Party (same as above)
Marijuana Party
Progressive Canadian Party
Your local Independant
Each vote goes to support the party that you are voting for, even if they don't get in. It would be especially helpful if Canada were to turn to proportional representation.
A vote for the NDP would give them more say and help offset the power handed to Martin or Harper. And I don't endorse the NDP either.
NSSM: You can always vote the smaller independant parties. Here are some:
Canadian Action Party
The Green Party
Communist Party (that's _NOT_ an endorsement)
Marxist-Lenin Party (same as above)
Marijuana Party
Progressive Canadian Party
Your local Independant
Each vote goes to support the party that you are voting for, even if they don't get in. It would be especially helpful if Canada were to turn to proportional representation.
A vote for the NDP would give them more say and help offset the power handed to Martin or Harper. And I don't endorse the NDP either.
Council Member
Posts: 4,490
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
June 16th, 2004, 05:08 PM
let's go communist this time ladies and gentlemen. I am voting for communist party for the first time in my life. I always voted for these big parties and nothing good came from them. So I am not wasting my vote on them again even if I know in my heart that the communist party will never win. In addition, they can give the finger to the American administration for me.
let's go communist this time ladies and gentlemen. I am voting for communist party for the first time in my life. I always voted for these big parties and nothing good came from them. So I am not wasting my vote on them again even if I know in my heart that the communist party will never win. In addition, they can give the finger to the American administration for me.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
June 16th, 2004, 06:02 PM
I see the NDP as a perfectly viable option to lead the country, NSSM. They've shown quite clearly here and in Saskatchewan that they can manage an economy. They have done that in spite of some pretty hard times including droughts, floods, BSE, ridiculous transfer payment systems (for every dollar Saskatchewan gets in oil money it must send $1.08 to Ottawa) and the almost-total non-cooperation of the business communty.
The biggest problem with Harper is that he's following the same formula that is failing in the US. He doesn't just want to Americanise us, he only wants to give us the worst parts of the US.
Look at the things he's said, look at his platform. These are the same basic policies that have driven the US deeply into debt, gotten them involved in an illegal war, and made them almost universally disliked around the world. If Harper gets a majority government, that will be what Canada looks like.
Martin is no bargain either. He's all for missile defense. He hired Lockheed-Martin, an American company, to work on the Canadian census. The Liberals have put through a couple of rights-raping "security" bills. They've introduced the gun registry...gun control that doesn't work and costs a lot of money.
If you don't like the NDP, then by all means vote for any of the alternative parties. Don't vote for the Liberals or Conservatives though...a vote for Martin or Harper is a vote to bring George Bush's Amerika to your house.
I see the NDP as a perfectly viable option to lead the country, NSSM. They've shown quite clearly here and in Saskatchewan that they can manage an economy. They have done that in spite of some pretty hard times including droughts, floods, BSE, ridiculous transfer payment systems (for every dollar Saskatchewan gets in oil money it must send $1.08 to Ottawa) and the almost-total non-cooperation of the business communty.
The biggest problem with Harper is that he's following the same formula that is failing in the US. He doesn't just want to Americanise us, he only wants to give us the worst parts of the US.
Look at the things he's said, look at his platform. These are the same basic policies that have driven the US deeply into debt, gotten them involved in an illegal war, and made them almost universally disliked around the world. If Harper gets a majority government, that will be what Canada looks like.
Martin is no bargain either. He's all for missile defense. He hired Lockheed-Martin, an American company, to work on the Canadian census. The Liberals have put through a couple of rights-raping "security" bills. They've introduced the gun registry...gun control that doesn't work and costs a lot of money.
If you don't like the NDP, then by all means vote for any of the alternative parties. Don't vote for the Liberals or Conservatives though...a vote for Martin or Harper is a vote to bring George Bush's Amerika to your house.
Council Member
Posts: 2,266 
June 17th, 2004, 06:54 AM
Paul Martin is, of course, a member of the corporate elite; however he does still have those core values: medicare is important, for example. (Remember it was his father who was instrumental in making Tommy Douglas' medicare program a National reality. And you remember who Tommy Douglas was? That's right, Keifer Sutherland's grandfather) He is pretty much a typical Liberal.
Harper, on the other hand, is an extremely right wing guy. He wants fixed election dates (why? because the US has them). He somehow believes the solution to everything is lower taxes (why? because the US does). He says on the one hand that any government programs for regional development are dangerous, and on the other runs around in the election campaign promising money to everyone. His theory is typical of what comes out of Alberta: now that Alberta has "made it", everyone there thinks that it's somehow due to their own individual effort, and that nothing the government did or provided (railways? immigration? farm subsidies?) allowed them to grow, so therefore government is useless and should not do anything for anyone.
Harper has that little smile, reminds me of Donald Rumsfeld's "smug bastard" look. They're both hiding something. You figure out what it is. I don't trust him as far as I can spit.
Paul Martin is, of course, a member of the corporate elite; however he does still have those core values: medicare is important, for example. (Remember it was his father who was instrumental in making Tommy Douglas' medicare program a National reality. And you remember who Tommy Douglas was? That's right, Keifer Sutherland's grandfather) He is pretty much a typical Liberal.
Harper, on the other hand, is an extremely right wing guy. He wants fixed election dates (why? because the US has them). He somehow believes the solution to everything is lower taxes (why? because the US does). He says on the one hand that any government programs for regional development are dangerous, and on the other runs around in the election campaign promising money to everyone. His theory is typical of what comes out of Alberta: now that Alberta has "made it", everyone there thinks that it's somehow due to their own individual effort, and that nothing the government did or provided (railways? immigration? farm subsidies?) allowed them to grow, so therefore government is useless and should not do anything for anyone.
Harper has that little smile, reminds me of Donald Rumsfeld's "smug bastard" look. They're both hiding something. You figure out what it is. I don't trust him as far as I can spit.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
June 17th, 2004, 07:13 AM
His main motivations are personal greed, the greed of his corporate buddies when it comes to financial matters. His sure knowledge that his own sweet, white Jesus who surely had blonde hair and blue eyes and never was a Jew controls his thoughts on social issues.
Where the two meet and/or conflict, his greed takes over.
He is actually very much like George Bush.
Quote:
Nothing so exotic, American Voice. Harper is an ideologue who believes in a combination of unfettered capitalism and the imposition of strict, far-right Christianity as a way to govern a country.
Please pardon me if this sounds impertinent, but is Harper a puppet of the expatriate Hong Kong financiers who siezed control of British Columbia?
His main motivations are personal greed, the greed of his corporate buddies when it comes to financial matters. His sure knowledge that his own sweet, white Jesus who surely had blonde hair and blue eyes and never was a Jew controls his thoughts on social issues.
Where the two meet and/or conflict, his greed takes over.
He is actually very much like George Bush.
Newbie
Posts: 18
Location: Surrey BC
Location: Surrey BC
June 17th, 2004, 08:57 AM
For everything you want to know of Harper look at:
Campbell
Klein
Harris/Eves
Thatcher
Bush Jr
He exemplifies each of those people to some degree, but most of all think - Mulroney.
Right-wing voodoo economics and tax cuts uber alles. Screw the poor - its your fault for being born poor. Screw the international community - Harpers wearing the kneepads for America and he plans on using them till they're worn out. Screw Canada's proud socialist history - he has right-wing dogma in mind for all of us.
Pray we get a minority government, that way it will fall in due time, the Conservatives will go the way fo the last Conservative government - down to 2 seats and we can then get back on track to making Canada THE PREMIER middle power once again.
Vote ABLOC - anybody but Liberal or Conservative!
For everything you want to know of Harper look at:
Campbell
Klein
Harris/Eves
Thatcher
Bush Jr
He exemplifies each of those people to some degree, but most of all think - Mulroney.
Right-wing voodoo economics and tax cuts uber alles. Screw the poor - its your fault for being born poor. Screw the international community - Harpers wearing the kneepads for America and he plans on using them till they're worn out. Screw Canada's proud socialist history - he has right-wing dogma in mind for all of us.
Pray we get a minority government, that way it will fall in due time, the Conservatives will go the way fo the last Conservative government - down to 2 seats and we can then get back on track to making Canada THE PREMIER middle power once again.
Vote ABLOC - anybody but Liberal or Conservative!
Super Genius
Posts: 1,172
June 17th, 2004, 10:24 AM
I seem to vaguely remember a man by the name of Joe Clark, leader of something called the Prairie Rebellion sometime in the 70's. He was Prime Minister in Ottawa for about ten minutes, before they sent him packing back to--was it Edmonton. Something about a secession by western provinces, hogging the oil industry revenues, and withholding taxes from the dominant party in Ontario. Someone fill me in. Does Harper represent a revival of that movement, from the 70's?
I seem to vaguely remember a man by the name of Joe Clark, leader of something called the Prairie Rebellion sometime in the 70's. He was Prime Minister in Ottawa for about ten minutes, before they sent him packing back to--was it Edmonton. Something about a secession by western provinces, hogging the oil industry revenues, and withholding taxes from the dominant party in Ontario. Someone fill me in. Does Harper represent a revival of that movement, from the 70's?
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
June 17th, 2004, 10:36 AM
The photo of Harper on the cover of June 14ths Time magazine is downright creepy. If that picture was a word and I saw it in our Word Association thread, I'd've said, 'Hitler'. And yes, of course that is a kneejerk reaction, but it was the first word that came to mind when I saw the photo.
Quoting
Yes! Thank you. It has been driving me mad, trying to think where I had seen that smarmy little smirk. You're right, it was right there on Rumsfeld's face all along.
Harper has that little smile, reminds me of Donald Rumsfeld's "smug bastard" look. They're both hiding something.
The photo of Harper on the cover of June 14ths Time magazine is downright creepy. If that picture was a word and I saw it in our Word Association thread, I'd've said, 'Hitler'. And yes, of course that is a kneejerk reaction, but it was the first word that came to mind when I saw the photo.
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
June 17th, 2004, 08:51 PM
If you live in British Columbia and are amongst the three people in the whole province who like what Gordon Campbell has done, you should vote for Stephen Harper, for they are two peas out of the same pod.
If you live in British Columbia and are amongst the three people in the whole province who like what Gordon Campbell has done, you should vote for Stephen Harper, for they are two peas out of the same pod.
