Clever Clogs
Posts: 548 
Location: Kamloops, BC
Location: Kamloops, BC
October 1st, 2002, 12:55 PM
Im bi-partisan on this one.
Its true it does have a positive side, but in the places like Alberta where pretty much everything else does depend on it, it would send them into a mild-medium recession while everything is being standardized and Alberta has some of the lowest emissions in their industrial centers in Canada. And almost half of the major industrial centers in Canada reside there.
I don't know if its sane to do considering how low the dollar already is and slide it even lower. True it will help with emissions, etc, but at what cost? They have already figured out that just lowering emissions will postphone the inevitable by not very long at all.
In a world full of useless solutions to the same problem, theres another one. Instead of trying to find a way to reverse the situation we postphone it. Priorities are messed up!
Im bi-partisan on this one.
Its true it does have a positive side, but in the places like Alberta where pretty much everything else does depend on it, it would send them into a mild-medium recession while everything is being standardized and Alberta has some of the lowest emissions in their industrial centers in Canada. And almost half of the major industrial centers in Canada reside there.
I don't know if its sane to do considering how low the dollar already is and slide it even lower. True it will help with emissions, etc, but at what cost? They have already figured out that just lowering emissions will postphone the inevitable by not very long at all.
In a world full of useless solutions to the same problem, theres another one. Instead of trying to find a way to reverse the situation we postphone it. Priorities are messed up!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 548
Location: Kamloops, BC
Location: Kamloops, BC
October 8th, 2002, 12:24 PM
Quoting
Its typical, our prime minster has always committed to many things without first consulting the people. In his reign as moron of canada, er.. prime minister of canada you could probably find hundreds of good cases of this, unfortunately Im not quite that bored to go looking right now
Kyoto..... I think it's a good thing. But, Im not an expert on it, and I will do some reading up on it.
BUT. Our prime minister committed to it without first consulting our nation, therefore, he's abusing his power. Typical.
BUT. Our prime minister committed to it without first consulting our nation, therefore, he's abusing his power. Typical.
October 14th, 2002, 12:22 PM
Yak yak yak.. Our prime minister is always getting us into deep.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
Yak yak yak.. Our prime minister is always getting us into deep.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 548
Location: Kamloops, BC
Location: Kamloops, BC
October 15th, 2002, 11:47 PM
Quoting
True, he did pick a VERY bad time to talk about it, however his viewpoint is shared by a large number of people, myself included. Its time Canada gets with the times and drops archaic monachy
Yak yak yak.. Our prime minister is always getting us into deep.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
October 28th, 2002, 01:07 PM
You know, when and if the liberals loose power, this kyoto issue will probably blow over. Well, I certainly hope it will.
I think it's a good thing at the moment, still, I'm not educated on the topic. It could kill Canadian industry in so many sectors. Especially, as Sumofallfears said in Alberta.
Does anybody have the whole lowdown on the Kyoto Accord?
You know, when and if the liberals loose power, this kyoto issue will probably blow over. Well, I certainly hope it will.
I think it's a good thing at the moment, still, I'm not educated on the topic. It could kill Canadian industry in so many sectors. Especially, as Sumofallfears said in Alberta.
Does anybody have the whole lowdown on the Kyoto Accord?
October 31st, 2002, 10:45 AM
Canadians in a fog over meaning of Kyoto accord.
STAND UP all of you who are against global warming. (Those of you looking forward to beach vacations in the Arctic get out of here.)
As for you scientists, environmentalists, politicians, bureaucrats, lobbyists and especially you pundits predicting an economic cataclysm with the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, please sit down and turn the page.
The rest of you still on your feet, sit down if you have a clear idea of what carbon permits, targeted measures, tradable emission credits and anti-growth multilateral environmental agreements are.
I thought so. You're neither stupid, nor alone. The media have mostly been talking among themselves in covering this story. This has left many of us wishing for a Kyoto For Dummies.
As simply put as possible, the Kyoto Protocol, which was signed in 1997, aims to reduce the emission of carbon-based fuels worldwide by at least 5.2 per cent before 2012. Those greenhouse gas emissions are believed by many, not all, scientists to cause global warming. If Canada were to ratify the accord, it would mean citizens would have to take steps to increase energy conservation.
For many, this is no big deal. But for most — come on down, all you SUV drivers — it may involve considerable sacrifice. As for business, groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Manufacturing and Exporters Association are screaming, warning of lost jobs and other dire consequences.
Every day in the media, there's something about some of this. But how much of it has been rendered meaningful for those of us who want to know all the implications of Kyoto?
Not much. The nearly 80 per cent of all Canadians who support ratification are getting their brains fried by the very mention of the accord. That's because the news has been polluted by politically charged talk of provincial jurisdiction, constitutional rights, even threats of separation from Alberta where fringe parties are organizing for referendums. According to reports in the National Post, all this separatist talk is even driving down the dollar.
Talk about déjà vu.
No, I'm not talking about the current comparisons to the controversial National Energy Program (NEP), which forced Alberta to sell its oil and gas cheap to help fuel energy-poor provinces. Two decades ago, the NEP created enduring East-West divisions.
Here, in the most of Canada, we're harkening back to other accords, as in Meech, or Charlottetown. Those "constitutional crises" felled forests for discussions of the "Triple E Senate" and other long-forgotten concepts. There were premiers' conferences and debates and forums and task forces and commissions and such a fuss. Journalists who covered them grew so rich off the overtime they could buy cottages in the Gatineaus. Meanwhile, ordinary folks, with the recession on their minds, reduced the debate to its barest, most emotional, essential: "My Canada includes Quebec."
Now here we go again.
The accusations are flying. Both sides claim the other is relying on bad science and worse, economic modelling.
Alberta is in the pocket of the international petrochemical complex. Environmentalists are extremists who want to drag Canada down. Ratification will cost a gabillion jobs. It will create a jamillion jobs. It will destroy industry. It will create whole new businesses. If Canada only creates 2 per cent of the emissions, why should we do anything? Even if we're the biggest per capita gasbags in the world why should we sign on if the U.S. doesn't? Isn't it better to light a single small (non-carbon) candle than to curse the dark?
As CBC's Rex Murphy said on last Sunday's Cross Country Checkup, the Kyoto debate "is in full throat."
While it was heartening to hear the many well-informed and well-meaning contributors, I had this sense that not all of us who should be engaged are engaged — because the media have turned them off.
For example, on Monday, as the premiers were meeting to figure out a way to deal with Ottawa, CBC Newsworld provided hours of Kyoto coverage. But who had the time? Even worse, it jumbled other environmental matters, including composting, into the mix. It only made things more confusing.
Then, that night, when CTV News With Lloyd Robertson focused on the shootings in Toronto plus more SniperVision, CBC's The National produced the clearest guide to Kyoto I've seen, a documentary-packed Q&A with Quirks & Quarks' Bob McDonald. Focusing on the practicalities of implementing Kyoto, it eschewed the rhetoric for the science. It was way, way overdue. (Transcripts are available at http://cbc.ca.)
If only other media could do the same.
Now bring on the "My Canada includes winter" bumper stickers.
Sit down and thank you.
Canadians in a fog over meaning of Kyoto accord.
STAND UP all of you who are against global warming. (Those of you looking forward to beach vacations in the Arctic get out of here.)
As for you scientists, environmentalists, politicians, bureaucrats, lobbyists and especially you pundits predicting an economic cataclysm with the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, please sit down and turn the page.
The rest of you still on your feet, sit down if you have a clear idea of what carbon permits, targeted measures, tradable emission credits and anti-growth multilateral environmental agreements are.
I thought so. You're neither stupid, nor alone. The media have mostly been talking among themselves in covering this story. This has left many of us wishing for a Kyoto For Dummies.
As simply put as possible, the Kyoto Protocol, which was signed in 1997, aims to reduce the emission of carbon-based fuels worldwide by at least 5.2 per cent before 2012. Those greenhouse gas emissions are believed by many, not all, scientists to cause global warming. If Canada were to ratify the accord, it would mean citizens would have to take steps to increase energy conservation.
For many, this is no big deal. But for most — come on down, all you SUV drivers — it may involve considerable sacrifice. As for business, groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Manufacturing and Exporters Association are screaming, warning of lost jobs and other dire consequences.
Every day in the media, there's something about some of this. But how much of it has been rendered meaningful for those of us who want to know all the implications of Kyoto?
Not much. The nearly 80 per cent of all Canadians who support ratification are getting their brains fried by the very mention of the accord. That's because the news has been polluted by politically charged talk of provincial jurisdiction, constitutional rights, even threats of separation from Alberta where fringe parties are organizing for referendums. According to reports in the National Post, all this separatist talk is even driving down the dollar.
Talk about déjà vu.
No, I'm not talking about the current comparisons to the controversial National Energy Program (NEP), which forced Alberta to sell its oil and gas cheap to help fuel energy-poor provinces. Two decades ago, the NEP created enduring East-West divisions.
Here, in the most of Canada, we're harkening back to other accords, as in Meech, or Charlottetown. Those "constitutional crises" felled forests for discussions of the "Triple E Senate" and other long-forgotten concepts. There were premiers' conferences and debates and forums and task forces and commissions and such a fuss. Journalists who covered them grew so rich off the overtime they could buy cottages in the Gatineaus. Meanwhile, ordinary folks, with the recession on their minds, reduced the debate to its barest, most emotional, essential: "My Canada includes Quebec."
Now here we go again.
The accusations are flying. Both sides claim the other is relying on bad science and worse, economic modelling.
Alberta is in the pocket of the international petrochemical complex. Environmentalists are extremists who want to drag Canada down. Ratification will cost a gabillion jobs. It will create a jamillion jobs. It will destroy industry. It will create whole new businesses. If Canada only creates 2 per cent of the emissions, why should we do anything? Even if we're the biggest per capita gasbags in the world why should we sign on if the U.S. doesn't? Isn't it better to light a single small (non-carbon) candle than to curse the dark?
As CBC's Rex Murphy said on last Sunday's Cross Country Checkup, the Kyoto debate "is in full throat."
While it was heartening to hear the many well-informed and well-meaning contributors, I had this sense that not all of us who should be engaged are engaged — because the media have turned them off.
For example, on Monday, as the premiers were meeting to figure out a way to deal with Ottawa, CBC Newsworld provided hours of Kyoto coverage. But who had the time? Even worse, it jumbled other environmental matters, including composting, into the mix. It only made things more confusing.
Then, that night, when CTV News With Lloyd Robertson focused on the shootings in Toronto plus more SniperVision, CBC's The National produced the clearest guide to Kyoto I've seen, a documentary-packed Q&A with Quirks & Quarks' Bob McDonald. Focusing on the practicalities of implementing Kyoto, it eschewed the rhetoric for the science. It was way, way overdue. (Transcripts are available at http://cbc.ca.)
If only other media could do the same.
Now bring on the "My Canada includes winter" bumper stickers.
Sit down and thank you.
