Kyoto Protocol
- Thread starter MsMelis
- Start date
Im bi-partisan on this one.
Its true it does have a positive side, but in the places like Alberta where pretty much everything else does depend on it, it would send them into a mild-medium recession while everything is being standardized and Alberta has some of the lowest emissions in their industrial centers in Canada. And almost half of the major industrial centers in Canada reside there.
I don't know if its sane to do considering how low the dollar already is and slide it even lower. True it will help with emissions, etc, but at what cost? They have already figured out that just lowering emissions will postphone the inevitable by not very long at all.
In a world full of useless solutions to the same problem, theres another one. Instead of trying to find a way to reverse the situation we postphone it. Priorities are messed up!
Its true it does have a positive side, but in the places like Alberta where pretty much everything else does depend on it, it would send them into a mild-medium recession while everything is being standardized and Alberta has some of the lowest emissions in their industrial centers in Canada. And almost half of the major industrial centers in Canada reside there.
I don't know if its sane to do considering how low the dollar already is and slide it even lower. True it will help with emissions, etc, but at what cost? They have already figured out that just lowering emissions will postphone the inevitable by not very long at all.
In a world full of useless solutions to the same problem, theres another one. Instead of trying to find a way to reverse the situation we postphone it. Priorities are messed up!
Andem said:
Its typical, our prime minster has always committed to many things without first consulting the people. In his reign as moron of canada, er.. prime minister of canada you could probably find hundreds of good cases of this, unfortunately Im not quite that bored to go looking right now
Yak yak yak.. Our prime minister is always getting us into deep.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
On a side note, John Manly made a big mistake with his remarks about the monarch. Did he REALLY have to make those comments or suggestions while she was on her visit to Canada?
No, he didnt. He's an arrogant a$$hole. Bloody typical liberals. They don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
Andem said:
True, he did pick a VERY bad time to talk about it, however his viewpoint is shared by a large number of people, myself included. Its time Canada gets with the times and drops archaic monachy
This will COMPLETELY destroy Canadian economy. Especially in Alberta where they rely on pollution! Good riddance Chretien
You know, when and if the liberals loose power, this kyoto issue will probably blow over. Well, I certainly hope it will.
I think it's a good thing at the moment, still, I'm not educated on the topic. It could kill Canadian industry in so many sectors. Especially, as Sumofallfears said in Alberta.
Does anybody have the whole lowdown on the Kyoto Accord?
I think it's a good thing at the moment, still, I'm not educated on the topic. It could kill Canadian industry in so many sectors. Especially, as Sumofallfears said in Alberta.
Does anybody have the whole lowdown on the Kyoto Accord?
Canadians in a fog over meaning of Kyoto accord.
STAND UP all of you who are against global warming. (Those of you looking forward to beach vacations in the Arctic get out of here.)
As for you scientists, environmentalists, politicians, bureaucrats, lobbyists and especially you pundits predicting an economic cataclysm with the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, please sit down and turn the page.
The rest of you still on your feet, sit down if you have a clear idea of what carbon permits, targeted measures, tradable emission credits and anti-growth multilateral environmental agreements are.
I thought so. You're neither stupid, nor alone. The media have mostly been talking among themselves in covering this story. This has left many of us wishing for a Kyoto For Dummies.
As simply put as possible, the Kyoto Protocol, which was signed in 1997, aims to reduce the emission of carbon-based fuels worldwide by at least 5.2 per cent before 2012. Those greenhouse gas emissions are believed by many, not all, scientists to cause global warming. If Canada were to ratify the accord, it would mean citizens would have to take steps to increase energy conservation.
For many, this is no big deal. But for most — come on down, all you SUV drivers — it may involve considerable sacrifice. As for business, groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Manufacturing and Exporters Association are screaming, warning of lost jobs and other dire consequences.
Every day in the media, there's something about some of this. But how much of it has been rendered meaningful for those of us who want to know all the implications of Kyoto?
Not much. The nearly 80 per cent of all Canadians who support ratification are getting their brains fried by the very mention of the accord. That's because the news has been polluted by politically charged talk of provincial jurisdiction, constitutional rights, even threats of separation from Alberta where fringe parties are organizing for referendums. According to reports in the National Post, all this separatist talk is even driving down the dollar.
Talk about déjà vu.
No, I'm not talking about the current comparisons to the controversial National Energy Program (NEP), which forced Alberta to sell its oil and gas cheap to help fuel energy-poor provinces. Two decades ago, the NEP created enduring East-West divisions.
Here, in the most of Canada, we're harkening back to other accords, as in Meech, or Charlottetown. Those "constitutional crises" felled forests for discussions of the "Triple E Senate" and other long-forgotten concepts. There were premiers' conferences and debates and forums and task forces and commissions and such a fuss. Journalists who covered them grew so rich off the overtime they could buy cottages in the Gatineaus. Meanwhile, ordinary folks, with the recession on their minds, reduced the debate to its barest, most emotional, essential: "My Canada includes Quebec."
Now here we go again.
The accusations are flying. Both sides claim the other is relying on bad science and worse, economic modelling.
Alberta is in the pocket of the international petrochemical complex. Environmentalists are extremists who want to drag Canada down. Ratification will cost a gabillion jobs. It will create a jamillion jobs. It will destroy industry. It will create whole new businesses. If Canada only creates 2 per cent of the emissions, why should we do anything? Even if we're the biggest per capita gasbags in the world why should we sign on if the U.S. doesn't? Isn't it better to light a single small (non-carbon) candle than to curse the dark?
As CBC's Rex Murphy said on last Sunday's Cross Country Checkup, the Kyoto debate "is in full throat."
While it was heartening to hear the many well-informed and well-meaning contributors, I had this sense that not all of us who should be engaged are engaged — because the media have turned them off.
For example, on Monday, as the premiers were meeting to figure out a way to deal with Ottawa, CBC Newsworld provided hours of Kyoto coverage. But who had the time? Even worse, it jumbled other environmental matters, including composting, into the mix. It only made things more confusing.
Then, that night, when CTV News With Lloyd Robertson focused on the shootings in Toronto plus more SniperVision, CBC's The National produced the clearest guide to Kyoto I've seen, a documentary-packed Q&A with Quirks & Quarks' Bob McDonald. Focusing on the practicalities of implementing Kyoto, it eschewed the rhetoric for the science. It was way, way overdue. (Transcripts are available at http://cbc.ca.)
If only other media could do the same.
Now bring on the "My Canada includes winter" bumper stickers.
Sit down and thank you.
STAND UP all of you who are against global warming. (Those of you looking forward to beach vacations in the Arctic get out of here.)
As for you scientists, environmentalists, politicians, bureaucrats, lobbyists and especially you pundits predicting an economic cataclysm with the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, please sit down and turn the page.
The rest of you still on your feet, sit down if you have a clear idea of what carbon permits, targeted measures, tradable emission credits and anti-growth multilateral environmental agreements are.
I thought so. You're neither stupid, nor alone. The media have mostly been talking among themselves in covering this story. This has left many of us wishing for a Kyoto For Dummies.
As simply put as possible, the Kyoto Protocol, which was signed in 1997, aims to reduce the emission of carbon-based fuels worldwide by at least 5.2 per cent before 2012. Those greenhouse gas emissions are believed by many, not all, scientists to cause global warming. If Canada were to ratify the accord, it would mean citizens would have to take steps to increase energy conservation.
For many, this is no big deal. But for most — come on down, all you SUV drivers — it may involve considerable sacrifice. As for business, groups such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Manufacturing and Exporters Association are screaming, warning of lost jobs and other dire consequences.
Every day in the media, there's something about some of this. But how much of it has been rendered meaningful for those of us who want to know all the implications of Kyoto?
Not much. The nearly 80 per cent of all Canadians who support ratification are getting their brains fried by the very mention of the accord. That's because the news has been polluted by politically charged talk of provincial jurisdiction, constitutional rights, even threats of separation from Alberta where fringe parties are organizing for referendums. According to reports in the National Post, all this separatist talk is even driving down the dollar.
Talk about déjà vu.
No, I'm not talking about the current comparisons to the controversial National Energy Program (NEP), which forced Alberta to sell its oil and gas cheap to help fuel energy-poor provinces. Two decades ago, the NEP created enduring East-West divisions.
Here, in the most of Canada, we're harkening back to other accords, as in Meech, or Charlottetown. Those "constitutional crises" felled forests for discussions of the "Triple E Senate" and other long-forgotten concepts. There were premiers' conferences and debates and forums and task forces and commissions and such a fuss. Journalists who covered them grew so rich off the overtime they could buy cottages in the Gatineaus. Meanwhile, ordinary folks, with the recession on their minds, reduced the debate to its barest, most emotional, essential: "My Canada includes Quebec."
Now here we go again.
The accusations are flying. Both sides claim the other is relying on bad science and worse, economic modelling.
Alberta is in the pocket of the international petrochemical complex. Environmentalists are extremists who want to drag Canada down. Ratification will cost a gabillion jobs. It will create a jamillion jobs. It will destroy industry. It will create whole new businesses. If Canada only creates 2 per cent of the emissions, why should we do anything? Even if we're the biggest per capita gasbags in the world why should we sign on if the U.S. doesn't? Isn't it better to light a single small (non-carbon) candle than to curse the dark?
As CBC's Rex Murphy said on last Sunday's Cross Country Checkup, the Kyoto debate "is in full throat."
While it was heartening to hear the many well-informed and well-meaning contributors, I had this sense that not all of us who should be engaged are engaged — because the media have turned them off.
For example, on Monday, as the premiers were meeting to figure out a way to deal with Ottawa, CBC Newsworld provided hours of Kyoto coverage. But who had the time? Even worse, it jumbled other environmental matters, including composting, into the mix. It only made things more confusing.
Then, that night, when CTV News With Lloyd Robertson focused on the shootings in Toronto plus more SniperVision, CBC's The National produced the clearest guide to Kyoto I've seen, a documentary-packed Q&A with Quirks & Quarks' Bob McDonald. Focusing on the practicalities of implementing Kyoto, it eschewed the rhetoric for the science. It was way, way overdue. (Transcripts are available at http://cbc.ca.)
If only other media could do the same.
Now bring on the "My Canada includes winter" bumper stickers.
Sit down and thank you.
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Immigration minister hails UN pact as ‘important milestone’ in global migration
A United Nations pact to be signed Monday will help promote “safe, orderly and regular” migration and the sharing of best practices in addressing the global refugee crisis, says federal Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen.
“Migration is a global reality and it makes sense to have a global approach. We are hopeful all (refugee) source countries, transition countries and destination countries could benefit from this framework and work together for safe, orderly and regular migration.”
No consultation with Canadians, no discussion, just quietly and intentionally hide it from view then deceitfully ram it through before anyone can debate or consult...the hell with the people. After all, we are a post-national state with no core identity...right??...right??
No core identity means no voice, we don't need one with Trudeau in charge. After all, he knows what's best for all of us, just ask him.
Disgusting abuse of power and Liberal arrogance is an understatement.
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The Kyoto Accord is merely a MORE COSTLY VERSION of the now disgraced Paris Accord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The difference between Kyoto and Paris Accords was that Kyoto had provisions for western countries to BUY carbon credits from third world countries to aid them in "adjusting" to lower carbon usage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AS an example- Our idiot Boy Justin has been sending TWO BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR to Viet Nam to buy carbon credits!!!!!!!!!!
Our idiot Boy buys carbon credits in spite of 15 YEARS of European experience that indicates the carbon credit IS RIDDLED WITH FRAUD AND LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is why Koto was scorned BY THE WEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And how BADLY does this carbon credit crap FAIL TO work????????????????
Consider: That two billion in Cdn "found money" from Our idiot Boy enables Viet Nam to buy more air conditioners, gas powered machines and generally EXPAND their carbon foot print!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buying carbon credits allows Our idiot Boy to be more popular in the third world but it does NOTHING to clean the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Consider also - that about 25 years ago- the United Nations got agreement to BAN certain fluro-carbons such as Freon because they are damaging to the ozone layer and thus exposing us to skin cancer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So for 25 years- the hole in the ozone layer was repairing itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But now the hole is EXPANDING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scientific reports indicate that poor third world countries are CHEATING and using compounds like Freon because they are CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The buying of carbon credits by pig headed western LIE-berals is now fueling the expanding use of fossil fuels and Freon - for the new refrigerators and for coal fire power plants to supply electricity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals IGNORE SIMPLE SOLUTIONS to global warming and green house gas emissions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our economy is being BROKEN by the wage demands and wild pension demands of civil service union Hogs who have sold their votes to greedy- buy power at any price- LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals have issued many hundreds of billions of dollars in pension IOU`s to their Hog allies in the last 20 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is this Hog bribery that is driving the LIE-beral carbon crap and trade tax SCAM that only cleans cash from wallets and leaves the dirt in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The PROVEN QUICKEST AND CHEAPEST Way to cut back on green house gas emissions is to cut back on gravy for Hogs!!!!!!!!!
If we reduce the gravy flowing to Hogs then they will FLY LESS OFTEN in air planes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And LIE-berals DO NOT wish to discuss the fact that air planes are the SINGLE DIRTIEST WAY to move any kind of cargo or passengers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals want to BLAME global warming on the poor waitress who drives her car home from her late night shift because she does
not feel safe on the streets thanks to LIE-beral hug a thug judges- and after blaming the waitress for her small carbon foot print- LIE-
berals then expect to hop a plane and burn THOUSANDS OF LITRES OF FUEL flying to Florida for GOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which begs one simple question which is obvious to pretty much anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together...how can the leader possibly represent the people if he dishonestly hides HIS intent from the people and has no desire or intention to open it up to debate and discussion and listen to what the people actually want?
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POOR STUPID HOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spewing that pro LIE-beral manure again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since you are such a clever fellow Hoid- why dont you tell us IF the Kinder Morgan pipeline will EVER BE BUILT?????????????????
After all- Our idiot Boy hax told us he wants to shut down the ENTIRE Alberta oil patch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND Our idiot Boy has told us that completing Kinder Morgan is a national priority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you answer the question or is the future rather 'cloudy"????????????????????????????
Because you and all the LIE-berals with you have your heads up your backsides and thus the vision is not clear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!