Newbie
Posts: 13 
January 19th, 2005, 11:21 AM
A lot of violent reactions to this article. But to dismiss is just as dangerous. Look around the world; regional economic blocs are emerging, and it would be silly to think it can't happen. There are many scholars who think US-Canada integration will evetually happen, and I wouldn't say these people who have dedicated their lives to academics are MORONS. Hey, with all the anti-intellectual attitude pervading here, maybe Canada is more like the USA than many are lead to believe.
A lot of violent reactions to this article. But to dismiss is just as dangerous. Look around the world; regional economic blocs are emerging, and it would be silly to think it can't happen. There are many scholars who think US-Canada integration will evetually happen, and I wouldn't say these people who have dedicated their lives to academics are MORONS. Hey, with all the anti-intellectual attitude pervading here, maybe Canada is more like the USA than many are lead to believe.
Newbie
Posts: 13
January 19th, 2005, 11:21 AM
A lot of violent reactions to this article. But to dismiss is just as dangerous. Look around the world; regional economic blocs are emerging, and it would be silly to think it can't happen. There are many scholars who think US-Canada integration will evetually happen, and I wouldn't say these people who have dedicated their lives to academics are MORONS. Hey, with all the anti-intellectual attitude pervading here, maybe Canada is more like the USA than many are lead to believe.
A lot of violent reactions to this article. But to dismiss is just as dangerous. Look around the world; regional economic blocs are emerging, and it would be silly to think it can't happen. There are many scholars who think US-Canada integration will evetually happen, and I wouldn't say these people who have dedicated their lives to academics are MORONS. Hey, with all the anti-intellectual attitude pervading here, maybe Canada is more like the USA than many are lead to believe.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
January 19th, 2005, 01:13 PM
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
January 19th, 2005, 01:13 PM
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
January 19th, 2005, 01:13 PM
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
There are a lot of academics that fear such a union would lead to the end of a separate Canadian identity too, Patrick.
North America has a far different dynamic than the EU or Asia does. We have a giant to contend with and no real way of balancing that giant. The EU has Germany, but there are several mid-sized powers to balance the size of that one power. Here we have only Canada and Mexico. We do not have the power to achieve balance.
Throw in that US has much more protectionist and unilateralist tendencies than any power in the EU, and any sort of union becomes very dangerous for the smaller countries.
Newbie
Posts: 13
January 19th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
Newbie
Posts: 13
January 19th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
Newbie
Posts: 13
January 19th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
I'm sure there is a fear of losing Canadian autnomy/culture regarding North American integration. & such fears are certainly justified. But I think the concept here is not the USA swallowing up Canada, but Canada becoming integrated on its own terms. I think a more apt, albeit different, comparison to the future integrated North American would be that of England/Scotland. Scotland gets to be part of Great Britain bloc in many ways, while at the same time retaining their cultural identity. I'm not saying that this is the way its going to be. or that I agree with this line of thinking, but it is important to be aware that such concepts exist and could come to be realized in the future.
Newbie
Posts: 3
October 15th, 2006, 10:58 PM
First off I will start with the imigrant post.
Imigrants are the lifeblood of this country, like most developed nations canadas population growth is creeping ever closer to the 0 marker, which means no more population to support growth, create new jobs, or basicaly do anything our country will collapse.
Second the Quebec issue.
The problem I have with Quebec is that if or when they leave money millions of dollars will be spent in seperating the countries, creating new laws/customs. there will be border issues, new check points stuff like that as well I garentee you that Quebec would not take with it its share of the national debt. Quebec is currently in the have nots catagory meaning they do not produce enough revenue to pay their government workers, their social programs, like daycare, pave their streets, or maintain their infrustructure with out money from the other have provinces. If Quebec leaves they will be in a huge debt which will be growing until they A) find a way to balance their budget(I find this less then likely as Quebecers are attached to their social programs and will not redily accept this, nore would they accept even higher taxes then its already paying). B) Ask to rejoin Canada or to join the United States. First the United States would not accept Quebec without making it surender most of its autonomy which we know from whats happening now that Quebec wont do. Which leaves us with Quebec rejoining Canada, and the government will accept as to do otherwise would be suicide for whichever party is in parliment at the time. Of course nothing will be said about the debt that has been aquired over its seperation and the rest of Canada will foot the bill so to speak.
Onterio employes a lot of Quebecers then when you take into effect that they would have to pay both Canadian taxes and Quebec taxes on top of that working in Onterio will become infeasable and vise versa with Onterio workers. both countries would then start suffering from economic collapse as in onterio many of the manufaturing companies that have plants there who are already shutting down plants may just pull the plug competely causing radical loss of jobs, and in Quebec with a high unemployment rate already it will sky rocket meaning more people on wealfare, more people the government has to give money to to stay alive, the country goes farther in debt.
It is simply not feasable for this to work. And don't think France will help you your version of French is to them a Bastardized version, an insult to the language, and they wont have anything to do with a welfare state. Face it we both need each other. Sure you have your own customs and what not, as does a lot of Canada but what makes this country great is that the diffrences bring us closer together rather then for the most part pushing us away.
Quebec has a unique culture, that does not mean it should be a seperate country or have a seperate say in global matters, we elect people to speak for us in parliment, the provinces all have a say, but in global affairs it is the voice of the majority, and believe me it is not Canada vs Quebec, all of Canada participates and many people disagree with the way something happens all over Canada not just Quebec.
Third the American Debate.
Canada and the States are very similar, we share a lot we are both dependant on one another for many things. But due to that dependance, our diffrent governments, laws, climate, geography, and history we are very diffrent. I am not talking about the Zed Zee things many important things are diffrent and while our cultures clash on varried issues we , as with Quebec grow closser due to this. I personly have no fear that there will be an american take over of Canada we are simply to diffrent, and to be honest being that diffrent is best for both as it increases trade and tourism, brings diffrent ideas and inovations to bear, and genraly erivhes both cultures. Eventually as the world grows North America will join together much as Europe is doing now with the EU(baby steps) but I don't doubt that the two cultures will stay seperate even though people may come to call themselves NA's or North Americas, or more probably Americas for short.
I live in Alberta (Red Deer as a mater of fact) it is a wealthy province there is no denying that, and partly due to that Saskatchewan is growing wealtier(also more oil being discovered there is helping). I have been to BC Sask Manitoba, part of Onterio and Quebec, and have family living in Nova Scotia and NFLD so I discus things with them all the time. I've been to Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Claifornia, Florida and Hawaii. So what I have said comes from talking with people accross Canada and the US and experiancing it myself.
I also want to state that my french is not very good, I can speak rudimentary French but thats it and when I went to France I was treated like a second class citizen, and I hear complaints about Quebec being treated as second class, I think this is a case of making sure your own ****ter is clean before complaining about others. Due to the labor shortage we have here I have met many Quebecers in Alberta and every one of them has mentioned how well they have been treated here
Sorry this went on so long take care
First off I will start with the imigrant post.
Imigrants are the lifeblood of this country, like most developed nations canadas population growth is creeping ever closer to the 0 marker, which means no more population to support growth, create new jobs, or basicaly do anything our country will collapse.
Second the Quebec issue.
The problem I have with Quebec is that if or when they leave money millions of dollars will be spent in seperating the countries, creating new laws/customs. there will be border issues, new check points stuff like that as well I garentee you that Quebec would not take with it its share of the national debt. Quebec is currently in the have nots catagory meaning they do not produce enough revenue to pay their government workers, their social programs, like daycare, pave their streets, or maintain their infrustructure with out money from the other have provinces. If Quebec leaves they will be in a huge debt which will be growing until they A) find a way to balance their budget(I find this less then likely as Quebecers are attached to their social programs and will not redily accept this, nore would they accept even higher taxes then its already paying). B) Ask to rejoin Canada or to join the United States. First the United States would not accept Quebec without making it surender most of its autonomy which we know from whats happening now that Quebec wont do. Which leaves us with Quebec rejoining Canada, and the government will accept as to do otherwise would be suicide for whichever party is in parliment at the time. Of course nothing will be said about the debt that has been aquired over its seperation and the rest of Canada will foot the bill so to speak.
Onterio employes a lot of Quebecers then when you take into effect that they would have to pay both Canadian taxes and Quebec taxes on top of that working in Onterio will become infeasable and vise versa with Onterio workers. both countries would then start suffering from economic collapse as in onterio many of the manufaturing companies that have plants there who are already shutting down plants may just pull the plug competely causing radical loss of jobs, and in Quebec with a high unemployment rate already it will sky rocket meaning more people on wealfare, more people the government has to give money to to stay alive, the country goes farther in debt.
It is simply not feasable for this to work. And don't think France will help you your version of French is to them a Bastardized version, an insult to the language, and they wont have anything to do with a welfare state. Face it we both need each other. Sure you have your own customs and what not, as does a lot of Canada but what makes this country great is that the diffrences bring us closer together rather then for the most part pushing us away.
Quebec has a unique culture, that does not mean it should be a seperate country or have a seperate say in global matters, we elect people to speak for us in parliment, the provinces all have a say, but in global affairs it is the voice of the majority, and believe me it is not Canada vs Quebec, all of Canada participates and many people disagree with the way something happens all over Canada not just Quebec.
Third the American Debate.
Canada and the States are very similar, we share a lot we are both dependant on one another for many things. But due to that dependance, our diffrent governments, laws, climate, geography, and history we are very diffrent. I am not talking about the Zed Zee things many important things are diffrent and while our cultures clash on varried issues we , as with Quebec grow closser due to this. I personly have no fear that there will be an american take over of Canada we are simply to diffrent, and to be honest being that diffrent is best for both as it increases trade and tourism, brings diffrent ideas and inovations to bear, and genraly erivhes both cultures. Eventually as the world grows North America will join together much as Europe is doing now with the EU(baby steps) but I don't doubt that the two cultures will stay seperate even though people may come to call themselves NA's or North Americas, or more probably Americas for short.
I live in Alberta (Red Deer as a mater of fact) it is a wealthy province there is no denying that, and partly due to that Saskatchewan is growing wealtier(also more oil being discovered there is helping). I have been to BC Sask Manitoba, part of Onterio and Quebec, and have family living in Nova Scotia and NFLD so I discus things with them all the time. I've been to Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Claifornia, Florida and Hawaii. So what I have said comes from talking with people accross Canada and the US and experiancing it myself.
I also want to state that my french is not very good, I can speak rudimentary French but thats it and when I went to France I was treated like a second class citizen, and I hear complaints about Quebec being treated as second class, I think this is a case of making sure your own ****ter is clean before complaining about others. Due to the labor shortage we have here I have met many Quebecers in Alberta and every one of them has mentioned how well they have been treated here
Sorry this went on so long take care
Newbie
Posts: 3
October 15th, 2006, 11:01 PM
sorry for double posting here I just noticed that this threat is like a year and a half old so I want to apologize for bumping this up after the topics been pretty well delt with, I just stumled accross a link to this exact thread on the net never been through the site so...
sorry for double posting here I just noticed that this threat is like a year and a half old so I want to apologize for bumping this up after the topics been pretty well delt with, I just stumled accross a link to this exact thread on the net never been through the site so...
