The other political parties.

July 25th, 2002, 06:42 PM

Reading many of these posts there is a general distaste of the current parties and politicians. Well there are other choices for Canadians, many actually. Two to watch and maybe support? are

www.canadianactionparty.ca and
www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca

As Canadians we have the democratic right to support and vote for who we want to, so why do so many stick to the losers when there are other choices out there. Seek them out, fresh ideas and people are a good thing.

July 26th, 2002, 08:15 AM

I don't have the time today to read both of those sites, but the names sound slightly left wing or even socialists (communists)! Please give a brief description on both parties and their aims.

-Thanks in advance

July 26th, 2002, 08:26 AM

btw, welcome to the forums czardogs

July 26th, 2002, 02:26 PM

Communists? oH no!

No actually, they in my humble opinion are almost identical in platform and ideals. The CAP was founded by Paul Hellyer a former cabinet minister who has some great ideas. Also has a book out, cant remember the title off hand. Good reading though.

The CDM is a little newer and best described as a "center" party with some leftist ideals. The CDM was founded by Roy Whyte, one year ago on a platform of changing the system of democracy that governs Canadians. They want to make the Senate an elected body, explore the idea of proportional voting, and change the job functions of the MPs, and term limits among other things.

I highlighted these two because they have great ideas, want to make for change, and are fresh blood. Canadian politics on the federal level are becoming a joke. One province elects the government, and all the other provinces (regions) vote in party blocks. It has split the country up and created much cynisism and apathy. Corruption is rife and the books are closed to viewing by the general public. Canada is not really a democracy anymore. Federal politicians only answer to those who funded their campaigns. They only listen in the months leading up to re-election then once elected they schuck off the general public and go back to pork-barrelling and squandering our money! There is no such thing as a free vote in the House of Commons when Chretien threatens his ministers with discipline if they dont vote as HE choses for them!

There are many other small parties in Canada. Some as you have suggested are a little, well, offbase. But that is what is great about a free democracy, the right to chose who you want and what you want for yourself, your family and community. Problem is the elections act is so outdated and inept, the big parties (Liberals and CA) pander to corporations and their hangers on, collect millions in donations and use that to shut out the other parties. New parties can not compete and that is why many Canadians have never heard of these other alternatives. The CDM for example will not accept contributions from corporations or special interest groups, only from named individuals. Its policies like these that will level out the playing field if the others would only play fair!

Enough ranting from me, if your one of the 42% of Canadians who no longer bothers to vote, there are other choices, and by not voting for anyone, you just help re-elect the criminal undemocratic Liberal party.

July 27th, 2002, 08:59 AM

thanks for the description. Though I'm quite right wing, i can appreciate smaller parties starting up whether they be left, centre, right. Anything to get the liberals out of power should do the trick. I'm all for alliance, but they get too much bad press mainly because the media is lefties and they'll do anything to keep a rightwing out of power.

All governments/parties are corrupt. The alliance is just a little more publicized.

July 27th, 2002, 12:47 PM

I too was an Alliance supporter and even voted for one in the last federal election. I will not vote CA again though. After digging through their policies it is clear they are really no different from the other major parties other than superfical differences.
The CA will keep the same system of government, the one that panders to corporations, sells of Canadian assests to foreigners, bows down to the WTO and NAFTA, and has lost touch with the average Canadian.
What is needed is a new form of government. Corporate democracy is robbing Canadians of basic democratic rights. Deals are done in secret, by suits whose only agenda is to make the rich richer and keep the working mass with just enough money to get back to work to make them even more money.
If the CA was truly a party that stood for the people they would not have taken the last pay raise given to MPs. An MP in Canada makes six times as much as the average Canadian. They will tell you that it takes a big paycheque to attract and keep the best and brightest. If the house of commons is full of Canadas best and brightest right now, we really are in trouble. But of course non of that is true. these MPs are with very few exceptions are all bankers, lawyers and business owners. Who do these people represent? It is certainly not single parents, homeless children, sick patients, poor farmers, and the working poor.
Ten percent of Canadians control nearly 80 percent of the total wealth, while the bottom 50 percent control only 10 percent. This is unexceptable and is only getting worse year by year. We live in quasi democracy and most Canadians cant lift their heads to see through the sand the politicians have thrown in our eyes.

July 27th, 2002, 02:11 PM

You have some points. But can you say what you would think the best political system would be?

July 27th, 2002, 08:32 PM

Best political system? Homer Simpson running a country and giving out free donuts?

I dont know if there is a "BEST political system" the word political implies flaws in itself.

July 27th, 2002, 10:38 PM

I didnt mean it like that shmad.... I was just inquiring as to what political system he would suit himself as ideal. No political system is the best. But there are better systems.

July 28th, 2002, 02:25 AM

Great question. This is a question that has been asked millions of times by millions of people in hundreds of countries. This is the sort of question that binds peoples together.

You are right, no system is perfect and unfailable. But what in life is that guaranteed besides death? The system I believe that would be best for Canadians, is one that is actually controlled by the people. Yes it sure sounds like democracy, but it must go deeper than the current system.

To start with, the seats in the House of Commons should be decided by a proportional vote. For example in the last election, less than sixty percent of eligible voters actually voted. Of that sixty percent, the Federal Liberals gained a vast majority (mostly from one province) with barely sixty percent of the vote. Remember that is only sixty percent of the sixty percent who bothered to vote!

People for the most part if asked why the didnt vote almost always say the same things such as "there is no one to vote for (yes there is, only you have been kept from hearing of them by the media, who are controlled by just a few elitists), and my one vote does not make any difference (that I call the western syndrom, because Ontario always elects the government).

All of the above excuses would go away if there was proportional voting. Same thing should be applied to the Senate. All the Senate position is now is a golden patronage appointment by the sitting Prime Minister. There is no vote, no discussion, just Chretien rewarding friends and supporters. There is NOTHING democratic about that!

Also, major decisions/issues as chosen by the people of the country through their MPs should be made ready by the MPs in the house of commons, then those bills should be put to national referendum to make sure all major decisions really are made by the people of the land. (almost direct quote from CDM website)

The essential element in the whole mix is having truly open accounting of the tax dollars. All, and I mean every last loonie should be accounted for and easily accesible for scrutiny by ANY CANADIAN who wants to see it. No more boon-dogles. Criminals can't steal when everyone is looking right at them can they?

And then beyond all the above, we need to go back and take another look at the deals that were made before such as NAFTA. We should also put our dealings with the WTO, and the World Bank under the microscope. In my opinion they are nothing more than minions of corporations and elitists who would love nothing better than to swallow Canada and Mexico and make us the 51st and 52nd state. As Paul Hellyer points out in his book, "America will do by economics that they could not do by military force and that is conquer Canada".

Just so you all dont think I am some left wing wacko, I am actually more of a rightist by heart and belief when it comes to the minor issues that makes society and nation. Criminal justice should mean just that, criminals need to be taught right from wrong, not rewarded for committing crimes. I am also a big proponent of the Canadian military. Finest in the world, just imagine how much more we could do with a real budget. Canadians make the best peace keepers and we are respected the world around for it, but Chretien has decided corporations and their shareholders need more money than the soldiers need working equipment.

So to sum my rabble up, a government by the people for the people. (see I dont hate America) A government that by being run from all citizens would put Canadian culture and society first and everything else second. Canada has the enviable position of being a large nation with vast resources, decent infrastructure, great culture, smart citizens, and racial harmony (for the most part). Why then are so many Canadians still living in poverty? Why are so many more just a few lost paycheques away from joining them?

I will leave you all with this, I spoke to a senior on the train today at length about the Great Depression. He said "you generation X and Y's have it better than anyone in human history, but just remember it can all be taken away from you, and none of you are prepared. You are all blind to what is going on around you because you have become complacent. If the Great Depression was to happen again tommorrow I fear it would be mass pandemonium, you dont have the skills to live without"

July 28th, 2002, 03:17 PM

Great explanation. I have some different views, however.

When you say "Racial Harmony", this is completely and utterly impossible. Throughout history, races have not been able to be in 'harmony'. I go out into the streets and all the foreigners, mainly asian, speak their own language and are completely racist towards us (anglo-saxons, germans, nordic ['Whites']). They will chat among themselves throwing racial remarks about 'white man'. I'm not so blind as to see races do NOT mix. We inhabit our own parts of the world for a reason, and Canada opening it's doors to aliens is wrong, immoral and ultimately destroys our country's british-origin culture.

Multiculturalism is a disease and a blindfold. It can never work.

July 28th, 2002, 08:12 PM

I have an idea, let's just vote in the canadian alliance and be done with it.

July 28th, 2002, 08:38 PM

I still stand by my original choice of Homer Simpson running the country. :P

And as for andems post, sure there is racism, there will always be racism to some degree, but if you look at what it is now to what it was say 50 years ago, it has declined a lot. True there will always be racist people, and its not just [white] people who are racist as you stated, but still no one should be stereotyped into those categories.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, thats why we live in a free country. (Free in the loosest sense of the word).

I wont go into the big discussion we had on this off boards with everyone on IRC-Chat, but I think I proved my point online awhile ago. Its an argument no one will ever win about racism, there is no right and wrong (just peoples beliefs and convictions).

Like LuShes would say, you can bring a thirsty horse to water, but you cant make it drink.

July 29th, 2002, 02:03 AM

Thats right, done with it for sure. Elect those boneheads and the sale of our country will continue. Nowhere in the CA policy guide do they make provisions to take Canada back. Did you know that there are no avenues for Canada to stop the outright sale of our assets to whoever wants to buy them? Foreign corportions can come to Canada and buy whole segments of the economy with no limits. For example they could buy out every last oil and natural gas company in Canada. We can lose control over the very assets that make Canada a rich nation.

Think its no big deal, well dig deeper. Why has their been such a huge money crunch in the last 5-6 years in every province? It is because corporations and companies once owned by Canadians are now owned by foreign nationals. They love this idea because they have many loopholes to dodge our taxs. Thus they pay less tax then the previous Canadian owner. Couple that with the corporate credo of "keep those profits rolling", otherwise, layoff all the highpaid positions, kill the unions and rehire workers at wages usually half of what they were, more part time hours to dodge benifits, and make money at all costs. I can just hear some of them back in their home country laughing at us Canadians. They keep us poor, lower our tax base, and exploit our resources and poison our country with pollution. Sorry CA will change none of that as they want to keep the same system as the Liberals. To save our nation we need new blood with new ideas and more input from the people. We need patriots not politicians.



I must say I differ here also. Canada has a very good record on racial and religious tolerance and acceptance. (as compared to every other nation with such diverse backgrounds of its peoples) If your not a Native Canadian you are an immigrant in essence. Of all this worlds nations none can even come close to comparing with Canada. America calls itself the great melting pot. Well they are not to be emulated, American media goes out of its way to point out color or religious difference.

Here in Canada everywhere you look people of all backgrounds work, live and play together.
I used to be leary of recent immigrants. Now I can say it was out of ignorance. I spent two years working in the taxi industry and on most days out of 150 employees I would be the only white face. I never once felt out of place. These men from all over the globe taught me to look with open eyes. These men would happily come to Canada and work 15 hour days 6 days a week for usually less than minimum wage, no benefits and no future advancement and never complained. Never. These men would always offer a helping hand if I needed something, I never had to ask. They would bring food, give gifts, and also celebrate my christian holidays. I was so impressed it dissolved my ideals of foreigners coming to Canada and taking jobs away from Canadians. Many of these men in their previous country were accountants, engineers, air traffic controllers, computer programers, and even a couple of lawyers! Still they did that ****ty job because it was all they could get. All they want is to make a new life in Canada for themselves and families even if it means taking a somewhat degrading job.

Sure someone will always point out about the abuses of the social systems by some immigrants. Every culture has its bad apples. Here in British Columbia you must line up to get your monthly welfare check. On welfare wednesday, the line up goes clear around the block and it is safe to say 90 percent of that line up is white! Most immigrants would rather work themselves to the bone for $700 a month than sit at home and earn $500. Now before someone points it out, yes there are lots of jobs in BC if you really want to find one. For many its just easier to sit at home.

Wow, that was my first response to this whooper. What really is the major reason you have to be proud of Canadas british origins? The British on the grand scheme of history are not to be emulated. They conquered by force, held countries in place by force, and killed millions in their quest to reign in the world for themselves. (I am of direct British decent by the way) Canada should drop our affinity with the British crown. British colonization may have helped create this nation of Canada, but it also helped to destroy many others. Ask africans if they appreciated British rule. Why are so many of them in so much disarray? Its mostly due to their own resources being controlled from outside the nation. That makes its peoples poor, and without money you are powerless to change your corupt government. Much like what is now happening to Canada.

Instead of foreign countries conquering us by force, they take it by monetary means. The British are as much to blame for the disaster in the making called Globalization as the Americans are. British organizations like the Center for Policy Studies, Statist Institue of Economic Affairs, and the Adam Smith Institute all as part of their manifestos propogate the idea of a world government run by multinational corporations, banks and elitists. And you want to emulate that greed in Canada? No thanks it is high time to shed our tie to the crown of a foreign power. Make that hostile foreign power. They may claim to be our friend but behind the closed doors of the world elite we are to be swallowed up and made part of their world conquest. Canada may be a member of the G8, but we are the poor cousin of the group. With our current system of government, our laws, trade deals and politicians all tailored to running with the corporate ideal of globalization we dont stand a chance.

July 29th, 2002, 10:14 AM

Sure the british conquered by force, but who didnt? The americans sure are bombing the hell out of the countries it doesnt like. They will find any reason (if any) to go into a country, bomb it to hell and take it over.

And what I meant about our british origins, we should have the values and morals of what we used to have. North America has no moral sense and Canada is just US's little pawn it can do what it wants with.

As for multicultural past: Canada has always been multicultural. Yes. But european multiculturalism. The country was built by europeans and its always been ruled by europeans, but our borders are now open to asians (who, i might add, multiply like rabbits), middle-eastern (who come here to build up terrorist plans, leave the country, and come back to bomb buildings) and the such. We've had wars with these people for centuries, you think we can just throw them all together and try to merge cultures?

July 29th, 2002, 01:07 PM

Most military super-powers have done this. One just has to look into the past. If you think you could get away with anything, and you just needed a little reason to do it, and you know you virtually could not be touched, most people WOULD do it. Its just like the old saying "If a person was invisible, he would truely think he was god and do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted".


That is true.. to an extent. They seem to think they can control us with duties, levies, etc being placed on almost everything we export, and guess what, they were right. Our politicians, for the most part, dont want to touch it and piss off the big bad United States, instead we sit at a bargaining table where everyone knows we'll just get screwed again and make no headway, costing us taxpayers even more money. Whatever happened to that Canadian Spine? :P


I dont think its proper to say all middle-eastern people come here to build up terrorist plots. I mean really... If one were to really want to plot to destroy something, they wouldnt need to come here to plot it, anyone can do plotting from anywhere. And you make it sound like its just middle-eastern people involved in these schemes. As 09.11.01 proved, citizens of the country can be just as instrumental in these plots/attacks. I dont think its fair to categorize all middle-easterners in this category.. that is.. unless you plan to add most regular citizens that helped out with these plots into the batch as well who werent from mid-east decent.

July 29th, 2002, 01:09 PM

By the way wasnt this about "The other political parties" ? :P