Trudeau BSs' Big Time On CETA. Says It Will Help The EU

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
0
36
I say eff the EU, help Canada. The 2 short news clips I put down below are not good for my blood pressure.


While Canadians by and large seem content to sleep through the entire CETA negotiations, uttering nary an objection to a deal that will severely compromise our sovereignty, ordinary Germans are turning out en masse to protest its dangers:

Demonstrators took to the streets of Berlin and six other German cities Saturday to voice their displeasure with pending trade deals, one between the European Union and Canada and another with the U.S.

The treaties they’re concerned with are the yet-to-be ratified EU pact with Canada, known as the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) (link is external), and the EU’s Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) (link is external) [the Canadian version is called the TPP, but carries essentially the same perils] deal with the U.S. that is still being negotiated.

While the deal between the EU and Canada has escaped the same scale of criticism and widespread outrage among the Canadian public, it continues to be a hot button political issue in Germany and one that protesters are hoping to stop from being ratified sometime in the fall. In broad terms the critics say that CETA would give multinational corporations too much power within EU markets and they object to a dispute resolution mechanism that has been proposed in the framework agreement.

This dispute resolution mechanism would allow companies to bypass national courts in both countries, allowing then to argue their cases in front of international arbitration panels instead. Despite the fact that we have access to the same information about the dangers of these free-trade deals, few seem upset by the unbridled enthusiasm that both Justin Trudeau and his poodle Chrystia Freeland profess for them:


Watch

Trudeau ‘very confident’ CETA deal with EU will be ratified | Watch News Videos Online


Despite Freeland's rhapsodic recitation of the improvements that have been made in the CETA deal, a quick check of the facts (link is external) reveals something quite different, unless motherhood statements and feel-good empty rhetoric are your thing. I would encourage you to read about these 'improvements' yourself under the pertinent sections, but here are a few highlights:


Watch

CETA: Canada-EU amend investment protection clause in deal | Watch News Videos Online

CETA includes a more robust voluntary mediation mechanism than has been included in Canada’s previous trade agreements.

Mediation is a cost-effective and expeditious way to resolve disputes without the need for a third party to decide the outcome. When parties choose arbitration rather than mediation, CETA improves on the WTO dispute settlement mechanism by streamlining and shortening the process. In addition, CETA includes an accelerated arbitration procedure for cases requiring urgent resolution, such as those involving live animals and perishable or seasonal foods.So in other words, the great improvements Freeland was extolling have nothing to do with changing what might come under dispute, such as environmental and labour laws, but only offers a faster and potentially cheaper way to resolve conflicts. There is nothing that protects our national sovereignty here, nothing that prevents the signatories from suing governments that enact legislation that may hamper the profits of corporations.

Similarly, the language dealing with labour, environment and sustainable development are peppered with platitudes like commitments to cooperate, provisions encouraging Canada and the EU to continue developing our resources in a way that is environmentally sustainable, establishes shared commitments to promote trade in a way that contributes to the objectives of sustainable development in Canada and the EU, etc.

All in all, empty language that enables the Trudeau government to lie to Canada's citizens. But at least our Prime Minister has a nice smile, perhaps something to dream about as we continue our long, collective snooze.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Not all of it.

So what? As long as Canada enjoys the right to raise its standards, then so be it. Let us trade with each other.

Protectionists will always gripe about a free trade agreement being imperfect as an excuse to defend the worst option: protectionism. An imperfect trade agreement is far preferable to no trade agreement, which Turmp supporters will learn soon enough if they're ever unlucky enough to get Trump as president. Though Hillary is a little protectionist too unfortunately.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
0
36
Trudeau Libs caught trying to "sunny ways" Canadians into CETA......


A leaked final draft began circulating around Europe Wednesday evening of a "joint interpretative declaration" Canada hopes will be enough to satisfy the remaining critics of the trade deal it hopes to sign at the end of the month.

As CBC News reported last month, Canada agreed to work with key European players on "clarifications" to the final 1,600-page deal amid concerns that it wasn't progressive enough to win the support of key political players in the European centre-left, including social democrats in Germany and Austria.

In particular, critics said the negotiations that concluded several years ago failed to adequately protect individual governments' rights to regulate in areas like environmental protections or labour standards. The opening of more public sector procurement raised concerns about whether the interests of multinational corporations would interfere with local sovereignty.

"Canada and the EU are working on a legally-binding joint declaration that underlines the progressive elements of this trade agreement," Alex Lawrence, International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland's spokesman, wrote in an email. "This includes confirming our shared views on the delivery of public services, labour rights, environmental protection, and an improved, independent investment dispute system."

Labour unions and civil society groups have organized large protests in Europe, mobilizing hundreds of thousands and applying political pressure ahead of the European Council giving its final approval for signature.

Skeptics say if both sides want something changed, they should just change it before signing.

Lawyer Steven Shrybman, who was asked by the Council of Canadians to provide a legal opinion of the declaration before the draft text was available to review, was dismissive of its potential legal value, calling it "simple rhetoric."

"A joint statement doesn't change the provisions of CETA," Unifor national president Jerry Dias said. "Having this joint letter, touchy-feeling, isn't going to save us in courts when we get into arguments over the investor rights rules."

"I think it's a diversion because it doesn't have any teeth," he said, calling it more of a political statement.

https://t.co/hL0BCV8RH8
 

Remington1

Council Member
Jan 30, 2016
1,469
1
36
Many good points, but for me, I am 100% against CETA, I see it as a really bad deal. I cannot imagine making a deal with someone who has the right to ignore my courts and sue my government directly, yikes!! And this one will happen as soon as expecting profits are not met. Another issue I have is that drugs cost will increase by 1 billions PER year, where do our seniors factor in this one? Another one, is 'them' controlling Canada's decision on who and what we want to privatize, why would we want their nose in our affairs, seems like big brother giving us a lollipop and telling us to fuc%$k off!! Why would anybody want that one! To allow the EU to challenge our democratic decisions is simply wrong, and they will have this right under CETA. We are presently the MOST sued country under NAFTA, so why want more? Our best interest is not at the core of this deal, not even a tiny bit, and what is next, the TPP, OMG. As for protect, if I hear of one, I would attend.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
0
36
If all those lefty group are against the deal it must be good.

Lefty groups may or may not like it (you will have to be more specific as to who the lefty groups are) but as one who wants to see Canadians employed and preferably at a higher standard of living then we have now Canada should revert back to the pre NAFTA agreements we had..

So what? As long as Canada enjoys the right to raise its standards, then so be it. Let us trade with each other.

Protectionists will always gripe about a free trade agreement being imperfect as an excuse to defend the worst option: protectionism. An imperfect trade agreement is far preferable to no trade agreement, which Turmp supporters will learn soon enough if they're ever unlucky enough to get Trump as president. Though Hillary is a little protectionist too unfortunately.


Their is always a winner and loser in any Free Trade or what would be the point of entering into an agreement as opposed to the previous arrangement.

I am not against trade, just free trades.........


Justin Trudeau says CETA will test European Union's 'usefulness'

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau issued a blunt warning to European lawmakers today: sign off on a free trade deal with Canada or risk reducing the European Union's relevance.

Trudeau formally welcomed French Prime Minister Manuel Valls for a three-day visit to Canada, holding a news conference after a private meeting on Parliament Hill.

"If, in a week or two, we see that Europe is unable to sign a progressive trade agreement with a country like Canada, well then with whom will Europe do business in the years to come?" Trudeau asked in French. "In this post-Brexit situation where there are a great many questions about Europe's usefulness, if Europe cannot manage to sign this agreement, then that sends a very clear message not just to Europe, but to the whole world, that Europe is choosing a path that is not productive for its citizens or the world. And that would be a shame."

Valls said France is a champion for the Comprehensive and Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) because it will be a strong jobs generator and boost for both economies. He called it "unfathomable" that Europe would not agree to the accord.

"If the EU does not participate in a positive, win-win agreement with Canada, then with whom will the EU be able to build such free trade agreements?" he asked.

Trudeau was planning to travel to Brussels to officially sign the agreement later this month, but some countries have been slow to agree to its ratification.

Austria's chancellor, for example, only began to show tentative signs of support last week after a major lobbying effort led by Canada's allies in the German social democratic party.

This week, key regional government votes in Belgium's southern region of Wallonia appear poised to thwart plans to have the EU's trade ministers sign off on the deal next Tuesday.

Valls was asked about efforts to bring Belgium's regional dissenters onside.

"We are doing everything we can to convince our Walloon friends that this agreement is a good thing for Canada and the European Union," he said. "France is fully committed to this agreement."

Justin Trudeau says CETA will test European Union's 'usefulness' - Politics - CBC News
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
CETA is hanging from a thread, right now until the Walloons (I'm not making this up) vote on it. It's quite an accomplishment to successfully conclude a trade agreement with an organization as fractious as the EU.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
0
36
Thank You/ Merci Vous Wallonia


I'll have more to say about this in the future, but for now, some good news for those who oppose free trade deals that sacrifice national sovereignty and jobs so corporations can be further enriched:

Canadian Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland has walked out of negotiations to salvage a major trade deal with the European Union, saying she is returning home because she feels the 28-member bloc is unable to reach an accord with Canada.

In fact, she said she considers it “impossible” for an agreement to be clinched.

The development throws the future of the Canada-EU trade deal into doubt and, coming only months after the United Kingdom voted to quit the European Union, is a blow to the EU’s efforts to demonstrate it is still moving forward as a viable entity.

The European Council has been unable to reach a consensus on approving the Canada-EU deal because Belgium is unable to give its assent. Politically-decentralized Belgium requires the approval of regional governments on major international agreements and the French-speaking Wallonia region has opposed signing the agreement with Canada.

Canadian trade minister walks out of EU trade talks, says deal is ‘impossible’ - The Globe and Mail


 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Firstly Tay, it looks like Merci Vous is a literal translation of Thank you. This leads me to believe that it might have come about through the process of machine translation like through Google Translate for example.

Better no French than that eyesore.

Secondly, here's what I think Canada should do with CETA:

From this point forward, we negotiate by e-mail only. No rush. Just back and forth emails between the negotiators as time permist until they think they've reached a deal. Then they vote on it. No rush.

Meanwhile, Canada focuses on unilitaral trade policies such as unilaterally dropping tariffs and travel-visa requirements and then focus on building relations with other jurisdictions such as Hong Kong that are willing to reciprocate. In short, if a jurisdiction is willing to unilaterally drop trade restrictions and travel-visa requirements, then it will probably be an easier country to negotiate with when it comes to further openness such as in the implimentation of common banking and other such standards.

If a state is going to give us a hard time on the most basic trading points, then it's not worth the effort. Focus on other jurisdictions first while just keeping e-mail contact with the EU. Once the EU sees that we're building ever closer ties with other states and not really wasting our time with it, then it might become more willing to cooperate.

Maybe Canada could look at more open borders with the UK in the meantime. That should give the EU a wakeup call. Sure the EU is a more important market than the UK, but of what use is that if it doesn't want to trade with us. The UK might be a comparatively less important market, but if it wants open trade with us, then that's of more use to us than an EU that doesn't want to trade with us. Of course we want trade with the EU, but we can't force the EU to want to trade with us. It has to want to do so. And until then, let's turn our focus elsewhere to states that want more open trade with us.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
As a parting shot at the Walloons, Canadians should gather outside the gates of the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa with a very powerful sound system and recite the names of the 7,000 Canadians that are engraved on the Menin Gate, in rotation for a day or two.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
As a parting shot at the Walloons, Canadians should gather outside the gates of the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa with a very powerful sound system and recite the names of the 7,000 Canadians that are engraved on the Menin Gate, in rotation for a day or two.

I disagree. We shouldn't politicize the fallen like that.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
I disagree. We shouldn't politicize the fallen like that.

Yes, perhaps we should keep to the high ground and leave the rest to that motley collection of guilded banana republics that passes itsself off as a Great European Power.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Yes, perhaps we should keep to the high ground and leave the rest to that motley collection of guilded banana republics that passes itsself off as a Great European Power.

Actually, the EU is a significant trading block and will continue to be even after the UK leaves it.

The problem though is that it's an arrogant one too, thinking that the rest of the world can't survive without it.

Sure we want a trade deal with the EU since it benefits both sides. But if the EU wants to play hard ball, then let's just move on to develop trade deals with other states in the mean time until the EU softens up a little.

If enough states do this, the EU would soon start feeling a little isolated and fall behind the rest of the world economically.

It might be strong now, but that's because of free trade within its borders. As states outside of the EU build ever larger trading blocks, the EU will need to keep up and expand its trading links too or fall behind the rest.

It can learn the easy way or the hard way. The choice is its to make.