Culture war within the Conservative Party of Canada?

[Machjo]

Kellie Leitch defends 'anti-Canadian values' survey question - Politics - CBC News

It would appear that Leitch and Chong have very different views of social conservatism, one based on 'Canadian' (presumably a code-word for English and French Canadian) values and the other on more universal values.

Their two views, though perhaps both based on social conservatism, are built on completely different foundations, one ethnic, one more universal.

I've long believed that the white nationalist movement had infiltrated the Conservative Party long ago and is now trying to take it over with varying degrees of success.

Chong appears to be a more universtalist social-conservative push-back agaisnt the rise of white nationalism in the party.

It'll be interesting to see which side wins this cultural war and whether it coudl lead to the party splitting into two.

 

[Curious Cdn]

The Reformacons are pretty much spent. It's time to return the Conservative party to their mainstream values.

 

[Machjo]

The Reformacons are pretty much spent. It's time to return the Conservative party to their mainstream values.

Hard to say. Remember that even the Reform Party was a big-tent party in its own right, with white nationalists essentially highjacking it.

I think white nationalists have learnt a lesson. To gain influence, they must control a major party, left or right.

As a result, whatever major party seems closest to their ideals (however remotely that may be) is the one they'll all latch on to.

White nationalists who make it near the top of the party's ranks starts to blow the dog whistle to attract more white nationalists to the party. Before you know it, the party develops a cancer it cannot remove. Non-nationalists within the party dump the party to create a new liberal-conservative party and to emphasize that white nationalists aren't welcome, it might become vocally open to immigration.

As a result, white nationalists turn to another party. Let's say the new liberal-conservative party should now be more pro-immigration that the Liberal Party is, white nationalists will suddenly start to join that party, latch on to it, force it to adopt ever more anti-immigration policies, work their way up its ranks, and start to blow the dog whislte again. And the whole cycle repeats itself. In principle, should the liberals then abandon the Liberal Party to create a new social-democratic party that is more pro-immigration than the NDP, then even the NDP could become prone to white nationalists trying to infiltrate it.

I'd been reading Stormfront recently, and white nationalists aren't stupid. They know they need to control a major political party, and so will latch on to whatever party, regarless of its ideological leanings, that is the least pro-immigration.

Of course this could backfire on white nationalists if all parties start to become radically pro-immigration precisely to try to keep white nationalists out, in which case white nationalists would then be left with no other choice but to create their own political party and then become more explicit about their beliefs.

By the way, this is one reason I oppose proportional representation. First Past the Post does tend to benefit more moderate candidates. Proprotional representation will tend to benefit the fringes, both left and right.

I should also point out that not all Reformers were conservative. Some were more libertarian, but white nationalists had definitely infiltrated it too. It was a total mixed bag.

 

[Danbones]

culture war?
conservatives?
this is taking place in the fridge right?

 

[taxslave]

Horse puckies from someone either without a clue or deliberately trying to create an issue. I bet you find more NDP faithful against mass immigration than conservatives because they are the ones that will be competing for the scarce jobs. Most conservatives are in favor of educated immigrants that want to be Canadians. What they oppose are massive influxes of refugees that want to bring their culture and wars and crime with them.When we have second and third generation people that still consider English as their second language we have a problem.

 

[Machjo]

Horse puckies from someone either without a clue or deliberately trying to create an issue. I bet you find more NDP faithful against mass immigration than conservatives because they are the ones that will be competing for the scarce jobs. Most conservatives are in favor of educated immigrants that want to be Canadians. What they oppose are massive influxes of refugees that want to bring their culture and wars and crime with them.When we have second and third generation people that still consider English as their second language we have a problem.

Second and third generation? In Nunavut, some Inuit still consider English to be a second or even foreign language.

Damn those immigrants.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Second and third generation? In Nunavut, some Inuit still consider English to be a second or even foreign language.

Damn those immigrants.

The Inuit arrived only five hundred years before us, btw. The completely anihilated the very different Dorset people who were there before them. They arrived in Canada at the same time that the Vikings settled in Greenland ... snuffed out the Norse, too.

 

[mentalfloss]

Maybe they should give themselves a trendy, hip name like a Alt+Right.

 

[Curious Cdn]

I should also point out that not all Reformers were conservative. Some were more libertarian, but white nationalists had definitely infiltrated it too. It was a total mixed bag.


This is more or less what the Tea Party movement down south grew out of ... suddenly disenfranchised White Middle and Working Class Americans who were pissed off, as mad as hell, somewhat devoid of direction or ideology. They were quickly hijacked by the Republicans, although it could have gone a few ways. Trump has tapped straight into them.

In Canada, they found a home with the Reform Party. The operational issue within the Conservative movement is that this type is always as mad as hell about something and won't take no crap about a lot if things. It is impossible to build consensus with my-way-or-the-highway people all over the place and centrifugal force keeps wrecking the Conservative party. Somebody, though, has to provide a viable counter to the arrogant, rule-for-ever Liberals for the sake of our country and democracy. Tough guys from the very right can't get along well enough to pull it off.

 

[Machjo]

The Libertarian Party maybe?

But even then, the moment the Libertarian Party gains traction, conservatives would start to join it, making it more libertarian-conservative. And if it becomes anti-immigrant enough, then white nationalists join it, and before you know it, the old membership of the Conservative Party would have joined the Libertarian Party, and away we go again under a new name.

Maybe they should give themselves a trendy, hip name like a Alt+Right.

Whitch? The Leitch crowd?

 

[Curious Cdn]

Libertarian Party ... that's a bit of an oxymoron like an " Anarchists Party". None of them will take no crap from no none, no how, won't be able to agree to the colour of shyte and would be pathologically unable to form the sort of consensus that a political party needs in order to sing from the same songbook. They are a distructive element in the Conservative Party and I wish them well as they exit in a huff.

 

[Machjo]

You got the Red tories and liberal-conservatives, only a shade of difference between them except the red tories are a little more left, but both just moderately right of liberals. Then the paleoconservatives, the libertarians, the white nationalists, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe the pressure cooker is starting to whistle after Harper's heavy hand left its top. Implosion of the party imminent?

I doubt it. The right already learnt the consequences of a split vote long ago.

More likely, the red tories or liberal conservatives will end up dominating as being more moderate than the rest, with the rest plugging their noses figuring it's better than Liberal.

 

[Curious Cdn]

You got the Red tories and liberal-conservatives, only a shade of difference between them except the red tories are a little more left, but both just moderately right of liberals. Then the paleoconservatives, the libertarians, the white nationalists, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe the pressure cooker is starting to whistle after Harper's heavy hand left its top. Implosion of the party imminent?

There needs to be a viable alternative to the Liberals or there is no democracy and necessarily, they will be near the Canadian ideological center. The center is where the votes are. It has to be that way. Canadian voters do not vote to extremes. The only time that the NDP wins seats is when they shift to the center, as well.

 

[Machjo]

The right has already learnt the need to not split the vote, so I doubt we will witness a split of the conservative movement into two parties any time soon.

What I could imagine is the Chong camp winning out over Leitch but then with the far right members plugging their noses and voting for Chong anyway as a better alternative to the Liberals while still continuing a culture war within the party but refusing to split from it.

 

[petros]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Machjo]

There needs to be a viable alternative to the Liberals or there is no democracy and necessarily, they will be near the Canadian ideological center. The center is where the votes are. It has to be that way. Canadian voters do not vote to extremes. The only time that the NDP wins seats is when they shift to the center, as well.

But only party members elect the party leader. In principle, Conservatives could decide to vote for Leitch, in which case we're back to the barbaric cultural practices snitchline and dress codes debate in the next federal election, with maybe moderate tories voting liberal.

 

[Curious Cdn]

But only party members elect the party leader. In principle, Conservatives could decide to vote for Leitch, in which case we're back to the barbaric cultural practices snitchline and dress codes debate in the next federal election, with maybe moderate tories voting liberal.

...and we wait snother decade. Haroer was smart enough to gag the Yahoos most of the time because he knew that their opinions are not electable. That is why abortion is still legal, we don't have capital punishment back, open carry is not normal here and, I suppose, why Evangelical Christisnity isn't the State Religion.

I don't like the way that they played the military types in this country like a violin, though. After a century of taking care of our war wounded, we now buy them off with a cheap stipend, like a law suit settled out of court. I won't even start on the utter incompetence shown at equipping the Forces. They talked the talk and lots voted for them because of it but they never walked the walk. Manipulative lying is what that was.