Margaret Atwood on Climate Change, Her New Book and Why Socialists Are Better With Budgets
Do you think we can avert the more terrifying climate-change scenarios — Pictures Two and Three?
I see us at a point of transition right now. The mere fact that you are doing this interview is an indication. Five years ago, you would not have been. I see a lot of signs of a transition away from oil. But the big questions are: Is it enough, and is it fast enough? Or are we all going to cook?
What do you think — are we?
There’s actually no point in saying, “We’re doomed.” In my book Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth, I cover the various responses to the Black Death. One was to run away very fast, but usually the plague caught up with people anyway. Some people secluded themselves in castles. Some people tried to help: They ministered to the sick and usually died themselves. Some people raped, pillaged and threw parties. And some of them kept records. We’re extremely indebted to them — they didn’t know why it was happening, but they wrote it down, allowing us to make an educated guess.
If you say, “You’re doomed and you’re gonna cook,” all those who might otherwise try to help are going to instead run away very fast, or rape, pillage, loot and party. Hope is what causes you to get up in the morning and make an effort. So I’m all for hope.
What do you think of Naomi Klein’s argument that we need to tackle capitalism to tackle climate change?
I’m always interested to know what people have in mind. What is your alternative? People say, “We have to stop using oil right now!”, and I say, “Then you’re going to get social chaos: warlords and complete breakdown and famine and murder.” We are hooked on it at the moment. It’s like any addiction: We have to transition. If we transition wisely, we can get off it.
There’s something in Canada called the Ecofiscal Commission. It believes that some of the solutions are market solutions. [Tesla CEO] Elon Musk, for example — what he’s doing makes me very hopeful. He’s very cleverly made his patents public so that nobody can take him over and shut him down.
If you ask any person, “If you can have a snazzy car at a comparable price, and it’s all electric and you can recharge with the sun, would you have one?” They say, “Yes.” And then if you say, “If you could have a battery in your house that you recharge with the sun, which will run all of your appliances and therefore you never have to get another electrical bill from a power company — and it’s all direct solar, so there’s no emissions — would you get one if it was the comparable price?” Doesn’t take an instant to say, “Yes.” Nobody says, “I want to stick with oil. I like it — I like the smell, I like the goo, I like everything about it.”
Does state intervention play a role?
No, it doesn’t. Oil has become uneconomical in that the cost of it down the line, people are beginning to realize, is too high. If you’re subsidizing the thing all the time, then it’s obviously not paying for itself, is it?
..more...
Margaret Atwood on Climate Change, Her New Book and Why Socialists Are Better With Budgets | BillMoyers.com
Do you think we can avert the more terrifying climate-change scenarios — Pictures Two and Three?
I see us at a point of transition right now. The mere fact that you are doing this interview is an indication. Five years ago, you would not have been. I see a lot of signs of a transition away from oil. But the big questions are: Is it enough, and is it fast enough? Or are we all going to cook?
What do you think — are we?
There’s actually no point in saying, “We’re doomed.” In my book Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth, I cover the various responses to the Black Death. One was to run away very fast, but usually the plague caught up with people anyway. Some people secluded themselves in castles. Some people tried to help: They ministered to the sick and usually died themselves. Some people raped, pillaged and threw parties. And some of them kept records. We’re extremely indebted to them — they didn’t know why it was happening, but they wrote it down, allowing us to make an educated guess.
If you say, “You’re doomed and you’re gonna cook,” all those who might otherwise try to help are going to instead run away very fast, or rape, pillage, loot and party. Hope is what causes you to get up in the morning and make an effort. So I’m all for hope.
What do you think of Naomi Klein’s argument that we need to tackle capitalism to tackle climate change?
I’m always interested to know what people have in mind. What is your alternative? People say, “We have to stop using oil right now!”, and I say, “Then you’re going to get social chaos: warlords and complete breakdown and famine and murder.” We are hooked on it at the moment. It’s like any addiction: We have to transition. If we transition wisely, we can get off it.
There’s something in Canada called the Ecofiscal Commission. It believes that some of the solutions are market solutions. [Tesla CEO] Elon Musk, for example — what he’s doing makes me very hopeful. He’s very cleverly made his patents public so that nobody can take him over and shut him down.
If you ask any person, “If you can have a snazzy car at a comparable price, and it’s all electric and you can recharge with the sun, would you have one?” They say, “Yes.” And then if you say, “If you could have a battery in your house that you recharge with the sun, which will run all of your appliances and therefore you never have to get another electrical bill from a power company — and it’s all direct solar, so there’s no emissions — would you get one if it was the comparable price?” Doesn’t take an instant to say, “Yes.” Nobody says, “I want to stick with oil. I like it — I like the smell, I like the goo, I like everything about it.”
Does state intervention play a role?
No, it doesn’t. Oil has become uneconomical in that the cost of it down the line, people are beginning to realize, is too high. If you’re subsidizing the thing all the time, then it’s obviously not paying for itself, is it?
..more...
Margaret Atwood on Climate Change, Her New Book and Why Socialists Are Better With Budgets | BillMoyers.com
