Robocalls?? Tempest in a Teapot. BIG surprise.


Colpy
Conservative
+2
#1
An investigation into misleading and nuisance robocalls made to voters across Canada didn't find an intention to prevent them from casting ballots, so no one will be charged, Elections Canada said today.
A 2012 media report about the investigation into robocalls in Guelph, Ont., led to hundreds of complaints about live and automated calls directing voters in other ridings across Canada to the wrong polling stations ahead of the May 2, 2011 election. There were also complaints about annoying and harassing calls that frustrated people and may have been meant to annoy them enough not to vote.
  • Read the Elections Canada report (pdf) (external - login to view)
Yves Côté, commissioner of Canada Elections (external - login to view), said in a news release Thursday that the investigation into those calls didn't find an intent to prevent or dissuade Canadians from voting.

"Ultimately, investigators have been able to determine that incorrect poll locations were provided to some electors, and that some nuisance calls occurred," the report into the calls said.
"However, the evidence does not establish that calls were made a) with the intention of preventing or attempting to prevent an elector from voting, or b) for the purpose of inducing an elector by some pretense or contrivance to vote or not vote, or to vote or not vote for a particular candidate."
"This proof of intent is necessary for the commissioner to consider recommending to the Director of Public
Prosecutions that a prosecution under the Act be initiated," the report said.

Robocalls made across Canada in 2011 won't bring charges - Politics - CBC News
 
Colpy
Conservative
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
Blazing Cat Fur: Liberal Fined For Robocalls (external - login to view)

Heh Heh Heh

Quote:


Mr. Coté’s investigators discovered two recordings of robocalls and one transcript in the course of their work. Yet the report described the two recordings as “innocuous,” while the transcript giving incorrect polling information was sent to a party supporter by his own party’s local campaign.
That’s pretty thin gruel on which to mount the case that democracy has been denied.
To believe that requires two preconditions.
The first is a complete lack of knowledge about the Conservative war-room in the 2011 election. Guy Giorno, the prime minister’s chief of staff, was campaign manager and, while he may have his failings, he is a stickler for due process. During the campaign, he employed a full-time compliance officer to ensure the party didn’t break any election rules.
As one top Conservative operative told me: “Why take the risk in a risk-averse environment? You’d only do it where the risk has a high return, which it doesn’t here. The culture of the party is not one conducive to freelancing. If you do, you get frog-marched out of the door and dispatched for life.”
The second precondition is a sense of absolute powerlessness — the feeling that the “enemy above” is manipulating the system for their own gain.
For the 2011 election Truthers, it is easier to assign responsibility for an emotionally troubling event in a moral context — hence, the Conservatives could only win by cheating.

Quote has been trimmed
John Ivison: Sorry, Truthers — the robocalls affair is not Canada’s Watergate | National Post

Heh Yes, I'm loving this.

Told you so.......all it took was a little applied math to know most of this this thing was simply sour grapes.
 
Locutus
+2
#3


Conservative Party ‏@CPC_HQ (external - login to view)

As we've said all along, and as Elections Canada has now determined, the Conservative Party ran a clean and ethical campaign. 1/4 #cdnpoli (external - login to view)

(external - login to view)
Ezra Levant ‏@ezralevant (external - login to view)

Perhaps the most embarrassing 13 minutes the CBC has broadcast in the past year: www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=tjXFKHyxeN4&app=desktop … (external - login to view) #truthers (external - login to view) #cdnpoli (external - login to view) #robocalls (external - login to view)
 
BornRuff
+1 / -1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by LocutusView Post



Conservative Party ‏@CPC_HQ (external - login to view)

As we've said all along, and as Elections Canada has now determined, the Conservative Party ran a clean and ethical campaign. 1/4 #cdnpoli (external - login to view)

This seems a bit over enthusiastic. The report clearly says that they did provide people with incorrect polling locations and they did target people with nuisance phone calls.

They simply can't prove intent, so I guess they are only guilty of the electoral version of manslaughter.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

They simply can't prove intent


Which means that they can't prove anything of substance, can they?

... But this: Blazing Cat Fur: Liberal Fined For Robocalls, (external - login to view) well, this appears to be much more premeditated.

So, when can I expect the usual suspects to post a myriad of new threads with all of the drama and theatrics relative to the Liberal Party stomping on democracy and the very foundation of our society?
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Which means that they can't prove anything of substance, can they?

... But this: Blazing Cat Fur: Liberal Fined For Robocalls, (external - login to view) well, this appears to be much more premeditated.

So, when can I expect the usual suspects to post a myriad of new threads with all of the drama and theatrics relative to the Liberal Party stomping on democracy and the very foundation of our society?

No he was a rogue agent not acting with the parties approval .
The conservatives on the other hand ---------------
 
Locutus
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

This seems a bit over enthusiastic. The report clearly says that they did provide people with incorrect polling locations and they did target people with nuisance phone calls.

They simply can't prove intent, so I guess they are only guilty of the electoral version of manslaughter.

Hey! I think you're wrong slim! If it actually was over enthusiastic wouldn't there be a lot of those stupid exclamation marks or CAPS you idiots love to use in here? Probably! But I could be WRONG!
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+3
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

This seems a bit over enthusiastic. The report clearly says that they did provide people with incorrect polling locations and they did target people with nuisance phone calls.

They simply can't prove intent, so I guess they are only guilty of the electoral version of manslaughter.

I think it is completely understandable. They got grilled in the media and in the commons for months by the Lieberals and the NDP over it. Now they have been vindicated, they have every right to be enthusiastic. Shows that it was just typical political mudslinging by the 2 loser parties.
 
BornRuff
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

I think it is completely understandable. They got grilled in the media and in the commons for months by the Lieberals and the NDP over it. Now they have been vindicated, they have every right to be enthusiastic. Shows that it was just typical political mudslinging by the 2 loser parties.

Words like "vindicated" are exactly what I am questioning here.

Wouldn't you normally think that would mean they were found to have not actually done what people claimed?

When the report shows that they did in fact do it, but they can't prove that they did it to screw with the election(though why else would you do stuff like that?), it seems like a bit more of a tepid approval.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

Words like "vindicated" are exactly what I am questioning here.

Wouldn't you normally think that would mean they were found to have not actually done what people claimed?

When the report shows that they did in fact do it, but they can't prove that they did it to screw with the election(though why else would you do stuff like that?), it seems like a bit more of a tepid approval.

From what the Lieberals and NDP were saying back in the day (or maybe it was just their rabid dog supporters like yourself and Cobalt), Stephen Harper himself was personally calling Lieberal supporters and mis-directing them to an incorrect polling station. So I think the word stands. Turns out the only person verifyable hanky panky was a Lieberal. But I am sure he was acting alone.
 
BornRuff
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

From what the Lieberals and NDP were saying back in the day (or maybe it was just their rabid dog supporters like yourself and Cobalt), Stephen Harper himself was personally calling Lieberal supporters and mis-directing them to an incorrect polling station. So I think the word stands. Turns out the only person verifyable hanky panky was a Lieberal. But I am sure he was acting alone.

Lol, no, it was called the "robocall" scandal for a reason.

The finding against the Liberal riding association is a different type of issue. There was no allegation that they were trying to prevent people from voting in any way. It is an issue of them not putting the right identifying information on their call.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
+1
#12
The problem is that the left is largely comprised of liars and thieves so they automatically think that everyone else shares their lack of values. We have seen this many times with the NDP in BC.
 
BornRuff
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The problem is that the left is largely comprised of liars and thieves so they automatically think that everyone else shares their lack of values. We have seen this many times with the NDP in BC.

Lol, right. Certainly have not heard any examples of conservatives lying or stealing recently.
 
petros
#14
Maybe no charges but the level of scrutiny in 2015 will be overwhelming and auto dialers a thing of the past.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
#15
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Canada anymore."
-Dorothy
 
BornRuff
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Maybe no charges but the level of scrutiny in 2015 will be overwhelming and auto dialers a thing of the past.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely. Political parties use "robocalls" all the time, and I doubt they are going to want to replace them with actually hiring people to make phone calls.

Despite the name, the issue really isn't about automated telephone calls, it is about using them to mislead or harass opposition voters to prevent them from voting.
 
Count_Lothian
#17
The problem lies in the fact that most of the complaints were rallied. Of the 40,000 complaints only a few hundred were actual people that got the calls.

It does not mean that it did not happen and people were not misdirected, just that someone rallied people to complain about it who never got the calls.

Hence it gets tossed out.

I'm paranoid enough to believe that the 39,500 people that made the false complaints were urged to do so by a chain of command inside the Conservative party....lol....

but make no mistake, all parties want robo calls..which does not mean the conservatives used it in anything but a vile way.

those clapping their hands that they did not get charged are just part in parcel to the propaganda machine needed to support a False conservative party using the Conservative logo.

The ends the brain washed will go in supporting these people is as amazing or as boring you choose, as Ford Nation.

we do not have sophisticated voting public in Canada , just the brain washed.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+2
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely. Political parties use "robocalls" all the time, and I doubt they are going to want to replace them with actually hiring people to make phone calls.

Despite the name, the issue really isn't about automated telephone calls, it is about using them to mislead or harass opposition voters to prevent them from voting.

Even if it was the intended to misdirect. There is nothing to link this to the Conservative Party and the assertions (by idiots like CK) that the Harper Government cheated to get elected is ridiculous.

Another scandal goes by the wayside for opposition parties lacking the ability to generate enough votes to form a government.
 
Colpy
Conservative
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_LothianView Post

The problem lies in the fact that most of the complaints were rallied. Of the 40,000 complaints only a few hundred were actual people that got the calls.

It does not mean that it did not happen and people were not misdirected, just that someone rallied people to complain about it who never got the calls.

Hence it gets tossed out.

I'm paranoid enough to believe that the 39,500 people that made the false complaints were urged to do so by a chain of command inside the Conservative party....lol....

but make no mistake, all parties want robo calls..which does not mean the conservatives used it in anything but a vile way.

those clapping their hands that they did not get charged are just part in parcel to the propaganda machine needed to support a False conservative party using the Conservative logo.

The ends the brain washed will go in supporting these people is as amazing or as boring you choose, as Ford Nation.

we do not have sophisticated voting public in Canada , just the brain washed.

I LOVE you guys!!!

The Conservative Party was EXONERATED. There was NO EVIDENCE of any wrong-doing, outside of that allegedly committed by a loose cannon in Guelph.

This is exactly what I have been saying since day 1......The Conservative Party strategists are not stupid enough to do something like this, even if they were crooked enough, which they are not.

And the fact that a man that is no friend of the Conservative Party exonerated them, while he had a Supreme Court justice looking over his shoulder to ensure everything was kosher, has made exactly NO impression on the Harper haters, as they are NOT interested in justice nor are they interested in the truth........all they want is a gallows on which to hang Harper, and they are psychologically incapable of accepting that the gallows is NOT deserved.
 
Count_Lothian
+1 / -1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Even if it was the intended to misdirect. There is nothing to link this to the Conservative Party and the assertions (by idiots like CK) that the Harper Government cheated to get elected is ridiculous.

Another scandal goes by the wayside for opposition parties lacking the ability to generate enough votes to form a government.

you are kidding yourself.

The first line of your post, read it.


Just because this does not make it to conviction does not mean there was no smoke.

The fact is people were misdirected. That in and of itself screams scam.

Mr.Poutine worked for the conservative logo.

Over and over again this conservative logo operates in gray areas to say the least.

I do not approve.

People seem to want a pure government with a Conservative logo.
Dat ain't happenin cappin!


Now I agree that they did not get elected entirely on cheating, but cheating did go on.
 
BornRuff
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Even if it was the intended to misdirect. There is nothing to link this to the Conservative Party and the assertions (by idiots like CK) that the Harper Government cheated to get elected is ridiculous.

Another scandal goes by the wayside for opposition parties lacking the ability to generate enough votes to form a government.

"Nothing" to link them? The report clearly shows that the source of some of these calls were companies hired by the Conservative party.
 
Count_Lothian
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

I LOVE you guys!!!

The Conservative Party was EXONERATED. There was NO EVIDENCE of any wrong-doing, outside of that allegedly committed by a loose cannon in Guelph.

This is exactly what I have been saying since day 1......The Conservative Party strategists are not stupid enough to do something like this, even if they were crooked enough, which they are not.

And the fact that a man that is no friend of the Conservative Party exonerated them, while he had a Supreme Court justice looking over his shoulder to ensure everything was kosher, has made exactly NO impression on the Harper haters, as they are NOT interested in justice nor are they interested in the truth........all they want is a gallows on which to hang Harper, and they are psychologically incapable of accepting that the gallows is NOT deserved.

Crooks get exonerated every day.
If you want to think this ;
Conservative Logo is lily white and all the people that were involved in receiving the calls were told to do so by a loose cannon.

Fine for you.....lol...

What about , the lies of the cost of planes, the false budget claims, the screwing over of veterans retirements, the lack of medical help for veterans, the list is endless.

but hey enjoy your exoneration!!!
hahahahahaha...

i'll even give you one of these, a pseudo beer,
 
Colpy
Conservative
+2
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_LothianView Post

Crooks get exonerated every day.
If you want to think this ;
Conservative Logo is lily white and all the people that were involved in receiving the calls were told to do so by a loose cannon.

Fine for you.....lol...

What about , the lies of the cost of planes, the false budget claims, the screwing over of veterans retirements, the lack of medical help for veterans, the list is endless.

but hey enjoy your exoneration!!!
hahahahahaha...

i'll even give you one of these, a pseudo beer,

Ahhhhh........the list is irrelevant, as we are discussing electoral fraud, which was NOT a problem in the 2011 election.

There are lots of things that I do not like about the Conservatives.

There are a lot MORE things I don't like about the Libs and NDP.

It is always a choice between imperfect candidates.
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

"Nothing" to link them? The report clearly shows that the source of some of these calls were companies hired by the Conservative party.

Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Even if it was the intended to misdirect. There is nothing to link this to the Conservative Party and the assertions (by idiots like CK) that the Harper Government cheated to get elected is ridiculous.

Another scandal goes by the wayside for opposition parties lacking the ability to generate enough votes to form a government.

Psssst let him enjoy the exoneration.
There is nothing one is going to be able to show these people that their Logo was won with a scam within a scam.
 
BornRuff
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

I LOVE you guys!!!

The Conservative Party was EXONERATED. There was NO EVIDENCE of any wrong-doing, outside of that allegedly committed by a loose cannon in Guelph.

This is exactly what I have been saying since day 1......The Conservative Party strategists are not stupid enough to do something like this, even if they were crooked enough, which they are not.

And the fact that a man that is no friend of the Conservative Party exonerated them, while he had a Supreme Court justice looking over his shoulder to ensure everything was kosher, has made exactly NO impression on the Harper haters, as they are NOT interested in justice nor are they interested in the truth........all they want is a gallows on which to hang Harper, and they are psychologically incapable of accepting that the gallows is NOT deserved.

Lol, Elections Canada isn't political. The Conservatives just like to play it up that way for their own political benefit. It obviously works on people like you, since when they get in trouble, they can just cry that they are biased against them, and when they don't get in trouble, they can say "see, even though they are biased against us they still didn't find anything, so we must be SUPER innocent".

In reality, elections Canada is just doing its job, and the Conservatives keep toeing the line between legal and illegal practices, so they will get a lot of attention.

On your other point, you could claim that they are too smart to do this, or you could claim that they are smart enough to know that as long as they use call centers that don't record their calls, it will be almost impossible to prove that they did this.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_LothianView Post

you are kidding yourself.

The first line of your post, read it.


Just because this does not make it to conviction does not mean there was no smoke.

The fact is people were misdirected. That in and of itself screams scam.

Mr.Poutine worked for the conservative logo.

Over and over again this conservative logo operates in gray areas to say the least.

I do not approve.

People seem to want a pure government with a Conservative logo.
Dat ain't happenin cappin!


Now I agree that they did not get elected entirely on cheating, but cheating did go on.

One individuals actions does not make the Conservative Party a bunch of cheaters. There are plenty of zealots out there supporting every kind of party, but it is ridiculous to accuse that party of wrong doing based on individual action.

Show me some evidence that Mr. Poutine was taking orders from the PMO or even the Conservative MP he was representing in that riding. If you can prove that you have a scandal.

Unsubstantiated claims breed shrill acccusations by the member I was referring to resulting in crap like this:

Mike Duffy and the conservative way (external - login to view) or Harper guts Elections Canada to keep cheating (external - login to view) or Conservative Culture of Contempt (external - login to view) or Conservative government abuses power to stifle opinion. or Conservative government supports torture. or Flanagan thinks Harper is a predator. (external - login to view)

This so-called scandal was born out of half-truths and unconfirmed allegations.

Well guess what. The investigation turned up nothing, but the accusation fueled a lot of nonsense.
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Ahhhhh........the list is irrelevant, as we are discussing electoral fraud, which was NOT a problem in the 2011 election.

There are lots of things that I do not like about the Conservatives.

There are a lot MORE things I don't like about the Libs and NDP.

It is always a choice between imperfect candidates.

Fine , oki dokie.
Like i said enjoy your exoneration to the fullest.
I'm sure you feel that it is a complete and honest take on the reality of what took place .
there is nothing nagging or niggling at your being.

all is tickety boo in Conservative Logo Land.

Enjoy.
 
Colpy
Conservative
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

Lol, Elections Canada isn't political. The Conservatives just like to play it up that way for their own political benefit. It obviously works on people like you, since when they get in trouble, they can just cry that they are biased against them, and when they don't get in trouble, they can say "see, even though they are biased against us they still didn't find anything, so we must be SUPER innocent".

In reality, elections Canada is just doing its job, and the Conservatives keep toeing the line between legal and illegal practices, so they will get a lot of attention.

On your other point, you could claim that they are too smart to do this, or you could claim that they are smart enough to know that as long as they use call centers that don't record their calls, it will be almost impossible to prove that they did this.

HELLO!!

Where did you see me accuse Elections Canada of bias in either direction??

I said the gentleman that exonerated the CPC was NOT a friend of the Party....had you been paying attention to current events, that would be blatantly obvious. He was not political, and reached the correct conclusion....it is you that can not accept that.....not I.

They didn't do it.

Ever hear of the concept of Innocent until proven Guilty??

Or even the concept of requiring some EVIDENCE of wrong-doing??

No, of course not....you're a "progressive".

lol

You guys just keep proving my point every time you post.

Oh, BTW, this idiotic promotion of wild conspiracy theories without the slightest shred of evidence is damaging the political culture of our country, and thus our democracy.

Smarten the **** up.
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#29
Try the wine!

Try the Wine - YouTube




Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

One individuals actions does not make the Conservative Party a bunch of cheaters. There are plenty of zealots out there supporting every kind of party, but it is ridiculous to accuse that party of wrong doing based on individual action.
Show me some evidence that Mr. Poutine was taking orders from the PMO or even the Conservative MP he was representing in that riding. If you can prove that you have a scandal.
Unsubstantiated claims breed shrill acccusations by the member I was referring to resulting in crap like this:
Mike Duffy and the conservative way or Harper guts Elections Canada to keep cheating or Conservative Culture of Contempt or Conservative government abuses power to stifle opinion. or

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
I realize that all parties wish to spin dirt from other parties.
I also realize like you say one man does not make a party rotten to the core.

We are talking about people that were misdirected during election day.

It aided the Conservative Party Logo you defend.



If you feel mr Poutine took it all on his own , like the Michael Wright guy just decided to do what he did on his own.

fine ! enjoy your "C" logo and sleep the deep sleep of opium .

these people have no buffers these people are loose cannons.

hahahahahahahaha...

Don't feel let down by your Big "C" Logo.
They are crusaders for Canada, lily white to the core.
Never use spin doctors in order to mask their intent.
Never use spin doctors during elections to lie.

never happens. all lily white..

please just skip to timestamp 3.03

Mr Deltoid - YouTube

 
BornRuff
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

HELLO!!

Where did you see me accuse Elections Canada of bias in either direction??

I said the gentleman that exonerated the CPC was NOT a friend of the Party....had you been paying attention to current events, that would be blatantly obvious. He was not political, and reached the correct conclusion....it is you that can not accept that.....not I.

If you say someone is "no friend of X", it does sound a lot like you are saying that they are against them, not neutral.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

They didn't do it.

No, they clearly did do it. They just can't prove intent behind the actions.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Ever hear of the concept of Innocent until proven Guilty??

Or even the concept of requiring some EVIDENCE of wrong-doing??

No, of course not....you're a "progressive".

lol

You guys just keep proving my point every time you post.

Oh, BTW, this idiotic promotion of wild conspiracy theories without the slightest shred of evidence is damaging the political culture of our country, and thus our democracy.

Smarten the **** up.

You are the one who concluded that they would never do something like this based on nothing. I simply provided an alternative conclusion. You claim they are too smart to do this, well it is also very plausible that they are smart enough to know that they can do this without getting caught.
 
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