The assault on reason

[Cobalt_Kid]

I think this is such an important issue it deserves its own thread, I know it'll be competing with the nonsense threads being created to try and drown out reality apparently. You don't have to wonder how bizarre conservative behaviour is around accurate information, you just have to look at how conservatives behave here.

Allan Gregg Speech To Alberta Federation Of Labour Slams Harper Government (VIDEO)

"1984 in 2013: The Assault on Reason" - Allan Gregg - YouTube

It's an excellent video, long but very clear in what and why Harper is acting the way he is. For instance Canada is the only nation on the planet that isn't taking part in the UN effort to combat desertification, an issue that threatens the lives of hundreds of millions of people worldwide.

 

[SLM]

Yes, we desperately need another frickin thread for you to tell how much you hate the Conservatives and Harper. I believe there may be a few in the back of the room who didn't hear it the over whelming amount of times you've spewed it already.

Just another installment in the Cobalt Kid show I suppose.

 

[L Gilbert]

Like I said, Gregg has an opinion. So what.

BTW, as usual, you've conjectured and came up with some more biased opinion. What I am referring to in that comment is this: "I know it'll be competing with the nonsense threads being created to try and drown out reality apparently." I didn't "create the nonsense threads to try and drown out reality", I created them to make fun of you and your fanatical crusade.

And, BTW, speaking of an assault on reason, your extreme bias kind of squelches reason. Fanaticism will do that.

 

[DaSleeper]

Just another installment in the Cobalt Kid show I suppose.

It's called "The Quixote Complex":lol:

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Is the Cobalt Kid on some sort of medication?

 

[L Gilbert]

Is rabies a medication?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

LOL Let me re-phrase that. Is Cobalt Kid off some kind of medication?

 

[Goober]

Lapdogs - they do serve a purpose.

And then there is the reverse study.

 

[damngrumpy]

Listen I have some grave reservations about Harper, but then I have grave reservations about almost
all those in office right now. Harper is a manipulative weasel. The negative ad campaigns are now
running thin I understand that. But then he has a big job, he convinced us he was the money guy it
will be alright. Now he has to burn the midnight oil looking for the 3.1 billion that got away.
Should we look at the others, Justin Trudeau, and Elizabeth May I have already polished up my old
series of laugh tracks. It is going to be a two horse dog and pony show, OK one of each and Trudeau
can be the pony.
After that come Mulcair, huge number of seats for now and content to make people wait until he is
ready to come down off the mountain with the new Ten Commandments for Canada.

Our problem is not the leaders or the parties. Our problem is none of them have a vision to lead the
country into a new unexplored future. All we have left is a book of names so we can name call at will.

Just maybe sometime in the future we will be confronted with a real leader. if that were to happen we
would join in a new round of ridicule. The problem is not them the politicians folks the problem is US

 

[DaSleeper]

The Kid?
He reminds me more of this one....

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Careful there Cobalt, you got a bit of Liberal Sumfin on yer chin.

 

[wulfie68]

Whoa! this is edgy stuff! An Alberta Liberal (one of the dozen or so that are there) slammed Harper at an organized labour event! I am amazed!

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Whoa! this is edgy stuff! An Alberta Liberal (one of the dozen or so that are there) slammed Harper at an organized labour event! I am amazed!

You too?

 

[karrie]

Are we going to jump on people who post right wing stuff next? Run all opinions off the forum? It'll be awesome when we get down to what's important... cat pictures and goat jokes.

I nominate Loc for a thorough 'spam exam'. He's been posting a lot of threads as of late, and he's very right leaning.


Ready, set, DOG PILE!!!!

 

[DaSleeper]

Are we going to jump on people who post right wing stuff next? Run all opinions off the forum? It'll be awesome when we get down to what's important... cat pictures and goat jokes.

I nominate Loc for a thorough 'spam exam'. He's been posting a lot of threads as of late, and he's very right leaning.


Ready, set, DOG PILE!!!!

The difference is one tries to push his ideology down your throat,

The other one does not, and is not argumentative

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Listen I have some grave reservations about Harper, but then I have grave reservations about almost
all those in office right now. Harper is a manipulative weasel. The negative ad campaigns are now
running thin I understand that. But then he has a big job, he convinced us he was the money guy it
will be alright. Now he has to burn the midnight oil looking for the 3.1 billion that got away.
Should we look at the others, Justin Trudeau, and Elizabeth May I have already polished up my old
series of laugh tracks. It is going to be a two horse dog and pony show, OK one of each and Trudeau
can be the pony.
After that come Mulcair, huge number of seats for now and content to make people wait until he is
ready to come down off the mountain with the new Ten Commandments for Canada.

Our problem is not the leaders or the parties. Our problem is none of them have a vision to lead the
country into a new unexplored future. All we have left is a book of names so we can name call at will.

Just maybe sometime in the future we will be confronted with a real leader. if that were to happen we
would join in a new round of ridicule. The problem is not them the politicians folks the problem is US

You're partly right, as Allan Gregg mentions in his talk Canadians have supported Harper do a degree because he claims to offer order in a time of declining hope for the future. We can no longer assume that our lives will be better in material terms than our parents, and this has caused a lot of anxiety.

The problem with Harper over the other leaders is that he's not open to reason or being informed by the best and latest information. He's going on a belief that this country will be better off if he pulls us all to the right of the spectrum and ends the liberal attitudes that most Canadians hold. In the conservatives minds Canadians in the past have been fooled into supporting the Liberals more often than not, ignoring the fact that most Canadians were and continue to be liberal in their outlook.

If the only way that Harper can create his conservative utopia is to ignore and distort reality to the point where we live in a dreamworld then we live in a very dangerous situation where our government cannot and will not respond to very real threats to the health and well-being of Canada. This isn't nearly as much of an issue with the other leaders who are far more willing to accept a broad range of views.

If you want the appearance of order then Harper is your man, but like other political figures of his style, it's mostly illusion and the chaos that follows them can be truly epic.

 

[Zipperfish]

The difference is one tries to push his ideology down your throat,

The other one does not, and is not argumentative

The difference is that you agree with one but not the other. Human nature.

 

[L Gilbert]

Are we going to jump on people who post right wing stuff next?

We do that on occasion, yes.

Run all opinions off the forum?

Um, Cobalt hasn't gone anywhere.

It'll be awesome when we get down to what's important... cat pictures and goat jokes.

I have a few pics to post in a while.

I nominate Loc for a thorough 'spam exam'. He's been posting a lot of threads as of late, and he's very right leaning.

Loc posts entertaining stuff as intermissions between rants, though.

Ready, set, DOG PILE!!!!

Loc ain't a monotonous drone with one topic rattling around between his ears, though. He's versatile.

You're partly right, as Allan Gregg mentions in his talk Canadians have supported Harper do a degree because he claims to offer order in a time of declining hope for the future. We can no longer assume that our lives will be better in material terms than our parents, and this has caused a lot of anxiety.

The problem with Harper over the other leaders is that he's not open to reason or being informed by the best and latest information. He's going on a belief that this country will be better off if he pulls us all to the right of the spectrum and ends the liberal attitudes that most Canadians hold. In the conservatives minds Canadians in the past have been fooled into supporting the Liberals more often than not, ignoring the fact that most Canadians were and continue to be liberal in their outlook.

If the only way that Harper can create his conservative utopia is to ignore and distort reality to the point where we live in a dreamworld then we live in a very dangerous situation where our government cannot and will not respond to very real threats to the health and well-being of Canada. This isn't nearly as much of an issue with the other leaders who are far more willing to accept a broad range of views.

If you want the appearance of order then Harper is your man, but like other political figures of his style, it's mostly illusion and the chaos that follows them can be truly epic.

I agree a lot of Canadians are liberal, but not necessarily Liberal, based upon observations of the past. And any PM's gov't has attempted to mold the country into their version, or else what they thought Canadians' vision should be. Harper's no different. He's just not as Liberal as most. Too bad you can't comprehend that.

I repeat, zealots have no call to suggest other's cannot reason.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

A government that's interested in making responsible decisions in a complex and changing world doesn't make the kind of decisions that Harper and his followers make.

Let Science Speak: Harper Government Continues To Muzzle Federally Funded Scientists

On the first front, government scientists have witnessed a long and growing list of cuts to evidence-gathering programs by the Harper administration:

Omnibus budget bills impose cuts and layoffs that affect the monitoring of waterways, fisheries and natural resource projects.

The government instructs Statistics Canada to terminate its mandatory long-form census.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) stops funding the Experimental Lakes Area, the only facility of its kind in the world, credited with making groundbreaking discoveries about phosphates and acid rain.

After producing more than 100 million worth of groundbreaking climate change research, the Harper government ends support for the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences. Casualties include the Polar Environment Atmospheric Research Laboratory (PEARL) and the Polar Environment Climate Stability Network (PECSN), both critical to studying climate change in the Arctic.

Ottawa cuts all funding for the First Nations Statistical Institute (FNSI), which gathers information on Aboriginal peoples, who are usually less represented in government data.

Cutbacks to Canada’s ozone monitoring network limit the world’s ability to monitor air quality and ozone depletion.

The government shuts down sources of scientific policy advice such as the National Science Advisor (the first and last person in the position was Dr. Arthur Carty, known for his strong stance on “open access” to scientific information) and the National Round Table on Environment and Economy (accused by Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird of pushing for a carbon tax).

So we're basically going on Harper's personal beliefs and with the lack of clarity in the PMO we don't even really know what those are, the conservative government is more like a religion than an actual government, demanding we accept on faith they know what they're doing.

There’s an obvious pattern here: the Harper government appears intent on suppressing certain kinds of science: science that could undermine its policies about climate change, the oil sands, ozone depletion, mining and pipeline projects, and other sensitive issues. We are witnessing the erosion of the principle that evidence should be the foundation of political discourse, sound policy and government regulation. Or, as the protesting scientists have put it, Ottawa is becoming “an evidence-free zone” with a governing party dedicated to “decision-based evidence making.”

And they certainly aren't being honest about what they're doing.

As stories about the restrictions grew, Environment Minister Peter Kent was adamant. “We are not muzzling scientists,” he insisted. The problem resided with “a small number of journalists ... who believe that the universe rotates around them and their deadlines.”

However, documents released in late 2012 under Access to Information revealed the heavy hand of Kent’s office and that of the Privy Council. Both directly intervened to prevent Environment Canada scientist David Tarasick from talking to the media about his discovery of an unprecedented ozone hole over the Canadian Arctic. It had nothing to do with the impatience of self-centred reporters. Tarasick was eventually allowed to speak, but only several weeks after the news had broken, and then with a government “minder” listening in. The damage had been done—for journalists, news delayed is news denied.

This is sad really, there are many of us in this country that would like to have a conservative option that isn't so dishonest and radical.

The Harper administration isn’t the first government to try to massage the message. But in my experience, it’s never been this bad. Some journalists have given up even trying to get a comment from a federal scientist in Canada—it’s easier to call someone in the U.S. or the U.K.

And it need not be like this. Climate scientist Gordon McBean, who was an assistant deputy minister at Environment Canada in the ’90s, says that instead of silencing scientists, he sent them away for media training—so that they would talk more to the media. That’s what CJFE would like to see. More than a year ago we wrote a public letter to Prime Minister Harper saying: “We want freedom of speech for federal scientists because we believe it makes for better journalism, for a more informed public, for a healthier democracy, and it makes it more likely that Canadians will reap the maximum benefit from the research they fund.”

Canada isn't a backwards nations, but if Harper has his way, it will become one.

 

[L Gilbert]

A government that's interested in making responsible decisions in a complex and changing world doesn't make the kind of decisions that Harper and his followers make.

Let Science Speak: Harper Government Continues To Muzzle Federally Funded Scientists



So we're basically going on Harper's personal beliefs and with the lack of clarity in the PMO we don't even really know what those are, the conservative government is more like a religion than an actual government, demanding we accept on faith they know what they're doing.



And they certainly aren't being honest about what they're doing.



This is sad really, there are many of us in this country that would like to have a conservative option that isn't so dishonest and radical.

Like I said before, you snivel when the goof doesn't reduce the deficit and debt, then you snivel when he makes cutbacks. You rather he do like Martin and kill seniors programs, make cutbacks on federal healthcare and education, etc. ad nauseum? Make up your odd, little mind.
Personally I think he could be doing a better job without messing much with R&D but then federal researchers seem to mostly parrot other researchers anyway. But I forgot, Gliberals love redundancy.