Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

[Machjo]

Some religious schools are opposing anti-bullying laws in Ontario and Manitoba because they'd also allow for the establishment of gay-straight alliances. Strictly speaking though, such an alliance is merely promoting respect for gay people and says nothing of whether they're practicing gays or not, or anything about whether homosexual acts and thoughts are themselves morally acceptable or not; merely that we should not bully gays and treat them with respect regardless of what we may think of homosexual behaviour or what our religious views are.

Could some kind of common ground of understanding not be found here?

Any thoughts on this?

 

[lone wolf]

A closed mind is the biggest obstacle to learning. In life, you can't like everything - but it's out there.

 

[taxslave]

There are many gays people that are religious. Most probably depend on how paranoid the church is.

 

[earth_as_one]

I can definitely see a need to crack down on all forms of bullying including homophobic bullying, even though my impression is that homophobia isn't as common in the Canadian 14-25 demographic as it used to be...

Some numbers:

...A 2006 survey of students in grades 7-12, conducted by the Toronto District School Board, found that 8% of students identified themselves as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans-identified, Two-spirited, Queer or Questioning (LGBTQ...

...In 2007, the McCreary Centre Society of British Columbia revealed some startling facts in regards to the well-being of LGBTQ teens. When compared to their heterosexual peers, LGBTQ teens experienced greater levels of violence and more negative health outcomes and were more likely:

To have experienced physical and sexual abuse, harassment in school, and discrimination in the community.
To have run away from home once or more in the past year.
To be sexually experienced, and more likely to have either been pregnant or have gotten someone pregnant.
To be current smokers, to have tried alcohol, or to have used drugs.
To have reported emotional stress, suicidal thoughts, and suicidal attempts.

The study also showed:

LGBTQ youth were less likely to participate in sports and physical activity, and reported higher levels of computer time.
LGBTQ youth felt less cared about by parents and less connected to their families than heterosexual teens, and for lesbian and bisexual females, less connected to school.
When bisexual youth reported high family and school connectedness, their probability of suicide attempts was much lower than for bisexual teens with lower connectedness, even when they had strong risk factors for suicide such as a history of sexual abuse and current symptoms of emotional duress...

http://www.bullyfreealberta.ca/homophobic_bullying.htm

 

[Machjo]

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies, we ought to be understanding of that regardless of what we may believe regarding homosexual behaviour itself.

 

[WLDB]

I can definitely see a need to crack down on all forms of bullying including homophobic bullying, even though my impression is that homophobia isn't as common in the Canadian 14-25 demographic as it used to be...

I went to a public high school and knew of quite a few out gay/bi/lesbian students. I cant say for sure but they didnt seem to be given a hard time by any students or teachers for their orientation. This would have been around 2002-06. Id like to think that sort of environment in schools has spread since then.

If a school doesnt want to allow gay-straight alliances because they think it conflicts with 'religious freedom', fine, then they shouldnt get so much as a penny of taxpayers money.

 

[SLM]

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies,

You have that really backwards.

 

[EagleSmack]

If a school doesnt want to allow gay-straight alliances because they think it conflicts with 'religious freedom', fine, then they shouldnt get so much as a penny of taxpayers money.

Do religious schools get tax payer funds?

 

[Machjo]

Do religious schools get tax payer funds?

Depends on the province. In some provinces, no religious school gets any public funding. In others, all schools do, and in others, only catholic schools do. Those are the three categories all the provinces fall in.

You have that really backwards.

Homosexuality attracts abuse. Either way, regardless of what one believes about homosexual behaviour, certainly this kind of hate is not acceptable.

 

[lone wolf]

Did I just read an echo?

 

[Machjo]

Did I just read an echo?

 

[damngrumpy]

Yes Eagle in Canada in many jurisdictions they do get tax payer funds. Unlike America
the school system is a provincial rather than a federal responsibility.
The problem is the schools are committed to anti bully tactics regardless of who it is. In
many churches and not just Christians, the religion itself by its belief system leans toward
bully tactic in an open society.
Gay issues being one, another is the abortion issue in front of hospitals, and the list goes
on. I don't think most see it as bullying though. The just want conformity in a society that
in so many areas promotes the individual.
That is a problem I have with any religion, you have to belong and to belong we all have to
believe the same thing, to belong to the church. Most churches exclude the gay lifestyle.
I don't know much about the gay lifestyle but I believe as citizens they should have the same
rights as the rest of us and we should not allow children to be bullied period

 

[Machjo]

To be fair though, the religious pay taxes too. However, what applies to one ought to apply to all. Either all religious schools get equal funding, as is done in Sweden's voucher system, or none do as is the case in Quebec with its one school system (well, two with French and English, but no denominational schools).

But the idea of one denominational school being given special privilege as is the case in Ontario ought to be out of the question.

 

[taxslave]

Depends on the province. In some provinces, no religious school gets any public funding. In others, all schools do, and in others, only catholic schools do. Those are the three categories all the provinces fall in.



Homosexuality attracts abuse. Either way, regardless of what one believes about homosexual behaviour, certainly this kind of hate is not acceptable.

So you are saying that it is homosexuals fault that they get beat up?

 

[Machjo]

So you are saying that it is homosexuals fault that they get beat up?

No. But now that you mention it, I can see my words were poorly chosen. It's the fault of the bullies.

What I menst was more along the lines of black skin will attract racist attacks, Jewish dress will attract antisemitic attacks, etc.

 

[SLM]

Homosexuality attracts abuse.

Ok, that statement is very, very different from this one.

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies,

What the above implies is that abuse is a cause of homosexuality.

Anyway, as far as the OP, the way I see it things really have not changed except that it's being forced to a head by this legislation.There is always going to be incidences when one groups rights and freedoms may conflict with anothers. The legislation didn't create the conflict, the conflict was always there. At that point, if compromises cannot be made to the satisfaction of everyone, the arbitrators of such matters, the courts, need to decide.

I'm very much a supporter of the LGBT community but I also support people's choices in their personal beliefs, thoughts and opinions. I would never condemn a religion for not embracing homosexuality, I do condemn people for using their religion to condemn homosexuality because that steps beyond the bounds of their personal beliefs and into interference with other people's lives. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Machjo]

Ok, that statement is very, very different from this one.

I corrected myself. I apologize for my fallibility.



Anyway, as far as the OP, the way I see it things really have not changed except that it's being forced to a head by this legislation.There is always going to be incidences when one groups rights and freedoms may conflict with anothers. The legislation didn't create the conflict, the conflict was always there. At that point, if compromises cannot be made to the satisfaction of everyone, the arbitrators of such matters, the courts, need to decide.

I'm very much a supporter of the LGBT community but I also support people's choices in their personal beliefs, thoughts and opinions. I would never condemn a religion for not embracing homosexuality, I do condemn people for using their religion to condemn homosexuality because that steps beyond the bounds of their personal beliefs and into interference with other people's lives. But that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

 

[SLM]

I corrected myself. I apologize for my fallibility.

Fair enough, lol. I'm not condemning you for it. The earlier statement just seemed very odd to me, and I couldn't fathom what you could possibly have meant by that statement.

If it was simply a matter of not being worded to properly to convey your thoughts, no harm. We all do that sometimes.

 

[taxslave]

No. But now that you mention it, I can see my words were poorly chosen. It's the fault of the bullies.

What I menst was more along the lines of black skin will attract racist attacks, Jewish dress will attract antisemitic attacks, etc.

Happens to all of us because we basically post as we write instead of doing a draft and several rewrites. I was fairly sure what I was reading wasn't what you meant.

 

[lone wolf]

I thought you flushed whilst sitting.... ;-)