Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Machjo

#1Feb 26th, 2013

Some religious schools are opposing anti-bullying laws in Ontario and Manitoba because they'd also allow for the establishment of gay-straight alliances. Strictly speaking though, such an alliance is merely promoting respect for gay people and says nothing of whether they're practicing gays or not, or anything about whether homosexual acts and thoughts are themselves morally acceptable or not; merely that we should not bully gays and treat them with respect regardless of what we may think of homosexual behaviour or what our religious views are.

Could some kind of common ground of understanding not be found here?

Any thoughts on this?

lone wolf

Free Thinker

#2 Top Rated Post

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

A closed mind is the biggest obstacle to learning. In life, you can't like everything - but it's out there.

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

There are many gays people that are religious. Most probably depend on how paranoid the church is.

earth_as_one

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

I can definitely see a need to crack down on all forms of bullying including homophobic bullying, even though my impression is that homophobia isn't as common in the Canadian 14-25 demographic as it used to be...

Some numbers:

...A 2006 survey of students in grades 7-12, conducted by the Toronto District School Board, found that 8% of students identified themselves as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans-identified, Two-spirited, Queer or Questioning (LGBTQ...

...In 2007, the McCreary Centre Society of British Columbia revealed some startling facts in regards to the well-being of LGBTQ teens. When compared to their heterosexual peers, LGBTQ teens experienced greater levels of violence and more negative health outcomes and were more likely:

To have experienced physical and sexual abuse, harassment in school, and discrimination in the community.
To have run away from home once or more in the past year.
To be sexually experienced, and more likely to have either been pregnant or have gotten someone pregnant.
To be current smokers, to have tried alcohol, or to have used drugs.
To have reported emotional stress, suicidal thoughts, and suicidal attempts.

The study also showed:

LGBTQ youth were less likely to participate in sports and physical activity, and reported higher levels of computer time.
LGBTQ youth felt less cared about by parents and less connected to their families than heterosexual teens, and for lesbian and bisexual females, less connected to school.
When bisexual youth reported high family and school connectedness, their probability of suicide attempts was much lower than for bisexual teens with lower connectedness, even when they had strong risk factors for suicide such as a history of sexual abuse and current symptoms of emotional duress...

http://www.bullyfreealberta.ca/homophobic_bullying.htm

Machjo

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies, we ought to be understanding of that regardless of what we may believe regarding homosexual behaviour itself.

WLDB

No Party Affiliation

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one

I can definitely see a need to crack down on all forms of bullying including homophobic bullying, even though my impression is that homophobia isn't as common in the Canadian 14-25 demographic as it used to be...

I went to a public high school and knew of quite a few out gay/bi/lesbian students. I cant say for sure but they didnt seem to be given a hard time by any students or teachers for their orientation. This would have been around 2002-06. Id like to think that sort of environment in schools has spread since then.

If a school doesnt want to allow gay-straight alliances because they think it conflicts with 'religious freedom', fine, then they shouldnt get so much as a penny of taxpayers money.

SLM

No Party Affiliation

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies,

You have that really backwards.

EagleSmack

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

If a school doesnt want to allow gay-straight alliances because they think it conflicts with 'religious freedom', fine, then they shouldnt get so much as a penny of taxpayers money.

Do religious schools get tax payer funds?

Machjo

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

Do religious schools get tax payer funds?

Depends on the province. In some provinces, no religious school gets any public funding. In others, all schools do, and in others, only catholic schools do. Those are the three categories all the provinces fall in.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

You have that really backwards.

Homosexuality attracts abuse. Either way, regardless of what one believes about homosexual behaviour, certainly this kind of hate is not acceptable.

lone wolf

Free Thinker

#10

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Did I just read an echo?

Machjo

#11

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Did I just read an echo?

damngrumpy

No Party Affiliation

#12

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Yes Eagle in Canada in many jurisdictions they do get tax payer funds. Unlike America
the school system is a provincial rather than a federal responsibility.
The problem is the schools are committed to anti bully tactics regardless of who it is. In
many churches and not just Christians, the religion itself by its belief system leans toward
bully tactic in an open society.
Gay issues being one, another is the abortion issue in front of hospitals, and the list goes
on. I don't think most see it as bullying though. The just want conformity in a society that
in so many areas promotes the individual.
That is a problem I have with any religion, you have to belong and to belong we all have to
believe the same thing, to belong to the church. Most churches exclude the gay lifestyle.
I don't know much about the gay lifestyle but I believe as citizens they should have the same
rights as the rest of us and we should not allow children to be bullied period

Machjo

#13

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

To be fair though, the religious pay taxes too. However, what applies to one ought to apply to all. Either all religious schools get equal funding, as is done in Sweden's voucher system, or none do as is the case in Quebec with its one school system (well, two with French and English, but no denominational schools).

But the idea of one denominational school being given special privilege as is the case in Ontario ought to be out of the question.

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

#14

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Depends on the province. In some provinces, no religious school gets any public funding. In others, all schools do, and in others, only catholic schools do. Those are the three categories all the provinces fall in.

Homosexuality attracts abuse. Either way, regardless of what one believes about homosexual behaviour, certainly this kind of hate is not acceptable.

So you are saying that it is homosexuals fault that they get beat up?

Machjo

#15

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

So you are saying that it is homosexuals fault that they get beat up?

No. But now that you mention it, I can see my words were poorly chosen. It's the fault of the bullies.

What I menst was more along the lines of black skin will attract racist attacks, Jewish dress will attract antisemitic attacks, etc.

SLM

No Party Affiliation

#16

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Homosexuality attracts abuse.

Ok, that statement is very, very different from this one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Certainly if it's found that abuse can contribute to homosexual tendencies,

What the above implies is that abuse is a cause of homosexuality.

Anyway, as far as the OP, the way I see it things really have not changed except that it's being forced to a head by this legislation.There is always going to be incidences when one groups rights and freedoms may conflict with anothers. The legislation didn't create the conflict, the conflict was always there. At that point, if compromises cannot be made to the satisfaction of everyone, the arbitrators of such matters, the courts, need to decide.

I'm very much a supporter of the LGBT community but I also support people's choices in their personal beliefs, thoughts and opinions. I would never condemn a religion for not embracing homosexuality, I do condemn people for using their religion to condemn homosexuality because that steps beyond the bounds of their personal beliefs and into interference with other people's lives. But that's just my opinion.

Machjo

#17

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

Ok, that statement is very, very different from this one.

I corrected myself. I apologize for my fallibility.

Anyway, as far as the OP, the way I see it things really have not changed except that it's being forced to a head by this legislation.There is always going to be incidences when one groups rights and freedoms may conflict with anothers. The legislation didn't create the conflict, the conflict was always there. At that point, if compromises cannot be made to the satisfaction of everyone, the arbitrators of such matters, the courts, need to decide.

I'm very much a supporter of the LGBT community but I also support people's choices in their personal beliefs, thoughts and opinions. I would never condemn a religion for not embracing homosexuality, I do condemn people for using their religion to condemn homosexuality because that steps beyond the bounds of their personal beliefs and into interference with other people's lives. But that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

SLM

No Party Affiliation

#18

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

I corrected myself. I apologize for my fallibility.

Fair enough, lol. I'm not condemning you for it. The earlier statement just seemed very odd to me, and I couldn't fathom what you could possibly have meant by that statement.

If it was simply a matter of not being worded to properly to convey your thoughts, no harm. We all do that sometimes.

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

#19

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

No. But now that you mention it, I can see my words were poorly chosen. It's the fault of the bullies.

What I menst was more along the lines of black skin will attract racist attacks, Jewish dress will attract antisemitic attacks, etc.

Happens to all of us because we basically post as we write instead of doing a draft and several rewrites. I was fairly sure what I was reading wasn't what you meant.

lone wolf

Free Thinker

#20

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 26th, 2013

I thought you flushed whilst sitting....

Machjo

#21

Re: Gay-straight alliance conflict with freedom of religion?

Feb 27th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

Fair enough, lol. I'm not condemning you for it. The earlier statement just seemed very odd to me, and I couldn't fathom what you could possibly have meant by that statement.

If it was simply a matter of not being worded to properly to convey your thoughts, no harm. We all do that sometimes.

I wa also confused by the intent of what I was responding to. For instance, I've read about studies showing that many child abusers were abused themselves as children, so I thought maybe the previous comment may have been referring to some study I was unaware of showing that many homosexuals had also been abused as children. Once it was made clear to me that the intent was the opposite, I therefore corrected myself.

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