Why Teddy 'Scrooge' Ballgame Didn't Give To The Book Fund


TeddyBallgame
+2 / -1
#1
- Yesterday I visited my neighbourhood Coles bookstore to buy some books for relatives and for my own Christmas reading. (For me I scored Keith Richard's autobiography on sale marked down to $8 from $35 and since I had met and socialized with Keith in Barbados in 1986 I had been meaning to buy the book ever since it came out. Richards is only one month older but much older looking than me and I still chuckle over his comment at the time, "I guess I must have aged a f#ck of a lot in 30 days, mate".)

- Anyhow, when it came time to pay for my books the attractive young woman who was new to the store asked me if I wanted to contribute to the book fund. I asked about the fund and she explained that it was used by Chapters/Coles to provide new books to local schools "since they can't afford all of the books they need".

- I explained to her that I would not be contributing to this book fund because the reason schools had no money to buy books for their students was that about 82 cents of every education dollar went right into the pockets of the teachers and other staff in inflated salaries, extravagant perks and unsustainable pensions, thereby leaving no room in the budget for such trivial things as books, computers, science equipment, new desks and chairs, etc.

- I further explained that during the nine years of gross mismanagement by the departing Ontario premier DOLTon McGuilty, the teachers unions were given - until this year - everything they really wanted and that most teachers in elementary schools now made $92,000 and change and most teachers in seconardy schools made $94,000 and change.

- This intelligent young woman employed in the knowledge business was taken aback and remarked that a teacher she knew, a fellow university graduate, was only making in the low 40s in her first year as a teacher. I explained to her that her friend merely had to show up for the next ten years, stay out of jail and the asylum, take a few easy summer courses and that she would climb automatically and rapidly to the $94,000 plus bracket by the time she completed eleven years of teaching. Of course, I told her, this was the current rate, McGuilty had raised teachers' salaries by over 30% in just eight years, and so the actual rates ten years from now would be way over $100,000.

- Seeing her eyes bug out, I went on to explain that the teachers' pension plan was ridiculously extravagant and clearly unsustainable and that it was worth more than three times what the pension plan of an equivalent private sector professional would be. Under the teachers' plan, I elaborated, one could teach for 35 years and then take early retirement to collect a guaranteed pension of 70% of the average of one's best three teaching years and see this pension increase automatically each year by the cost of living. Given current life expectancies, I observed that more and more teachers wouls actually be able to collect their lavish taxpayer subsidized pensions for several years longer than they had teached. As her eyes bugged out again, I added that these exorbitant public pensions were not merely totally unfair compared with private sector norms but also had driven several US municipalities into bankruptcy with others (e.g. Detroit) to come and were also threatening to bring down California and other US states.

- Having educated my young friend from the knowledge business in the realities of Ontario teachers' deals, I closed by observing that Ontario used to be the unquestioned and runaway leader in the country in terms of educational standards and test results but that the leader almost every year for the past decade was Alberta and that Ontario was frequently found in the bottom half among the ten provinces in achievement tests. This, too, shocked the Coles bookstore employee.

- Perhaps from now on she'll get her national and provincial and local news from several papers and channels rather than just from The Toronto Red Tsar and the Collectives BSing Corporation. But probably not.

- However, at least I got the chance to explain my Scrooge-like refusal to donate to the book fund and to educate this young lady about education in Ontario and why the kids are nothing but pawns and increasingly helpless and penniless pawns in the games the monopoly public sector education unions play.
 
PoliticalNick
Free Thinker
+3
#2
As much as I hate to admit it I have to somewhat agree with you on this one Teddy. I don't have a problem with public sector workers getting 5-10% more than their private sector equivalent and a decent benefit package but it would appear to me the norm these days is double the median income or 3-4 times a private sector employee and a gold-plated benefit package. I long for the days when pensions were collected at 65 and based upon contributions.

This is not limited to teachers. I read recently the average compensation (salary, benefits, pensions etc) for a federal govt employee is now $114,000/yr. Considering the median income in Canada is still in the low $40,000 range I find it ludicrous. I don't foresee it changing anytime soon either. Who is going to make a smaller, more cost effective and efficient govt when so much of the workforce lives off these lucrative, one-way deals funded by those of us that work for a living.
 
TeddyBallgame
+3
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

1/ As much as I hate to admit it I have to somewhat agree with you on this one Teddy.

2/ This is not limited to teachers. I read recently the average compensation (salary, benefits, pensions etc) for a federal govt employee is now $114,000/yr. Considering the median income in Canada is still in the low $40,000 range I find it ludicrous.

3/ I don't foresee it changing anytime soon either. Who is going to make a smaller, more cost effective and efficient govt when so much of the workforce lives off these lucrative, one-way deals funded by those of us that work for a living.

- PN ... 1/ I quite understand your reluctance to agree with me. I am reluctant to have you agree with me and had to go to the trouble of questioning my entire position on the subject when I learned that you did agree with me.

2/ No, it certainly isn't limited to teachers but in fact encompasses all of the occupational groups represented by the monopoly public sector unions who have an unbridlede power unmatched by private sector unions which is why FDR and most other sensible political leaders believed that unions, collective bargainign adn the right to strike were unwise and unworkable in the public sector.

3/ A good question and the crunch question. It is true that an increasing perecentage of the labour force is in the greater public sector and taking full advantage of the monopoly public sector unions' abilities to hold the taxpayers to ransome and extort sweetheart deals that result in needless numbers of public employees with inflated compensation and laughably low productivity norms. They will vote for and canvass for and contribute to the big government parties rather than the parties that try to represent the otherm 80% of the population by providing value for tax money. And even when the more conservative parties actually do something sensible in the public's financial interest, it is generally glossed over or ignored by the liberal MSM and said parties get no political credit. A current example is the long overdue reform to MPs' pensions driven through the House by PM Harper. MPs' pensions have long set a terrible example for the public sector and been a giant rip off of the taxpayers. They reached their peak under the Gliberals and Chretien and he particularly feathered his own nest by doubling the PM's pension. Under Harper, the MPs' plan has been reduced to a defined contributions plan in which the MPs contribute 50% to their pension fund. If actuarial tables prove accurate, this will remove over $2 million from Harper's PM pension. Does anybody know or care? Probably not.
 
gerryh
+6 / -1
#4  Top Rated Post
nice to see that teddy is staying true to form and not doing anything to change my opinion of his selfish self centered self.

Since the unions and teachers are getting more than he thinks they should.... then screw the kids. Kudos teddy, a true scrooge you are. Hopefully the young lady you laid your bullshyte on was able to see through it and see the true reason you weren't willing to help. You don't give a crap about the kids and are just too damn cheap.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
+3
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

- PN ... 1/ I quite understand your reluctance to agree with me. I am reluctant to have you agree with me and had to go to the trouble of questioning my entire position on the subject when I learned that you did agree with me.
2/ No, it certainly isn't limited to teachers but in fact encompasses all of the occupational groups represented by the monopoly public sector unions who have an unbridlede power unmatched by private sector unions which is why FDR and most other sensible political leaders believed that unions, collective bargainign adn the right to strike were unwise and unworkable in the public sector.
3/ A good question and the crunch question. It is true that an increasing perecentage of the labour force is in the greater public sector and taking full advantage of the monopoly public sector unions' abilities to hold the taxpayers to ransome and extort sweetheart deals that result in needless numbers of public employees with inflated compensation and laughably low productivity norms. They will vote for and canvass for and contribute to the big government parties rather than the parties that try to represent the otherm 80% of the population by providing value for tax money. And even when the more conservative parties actually do something sensible in the public's financial interest, it is generally glossed over or ignored by the liberal MSM and said parties get no political credit. A current example is the long overdue reform...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
You have no idea how much it hurts to agree with you but I am a fiscal conservative. Gee must be xmas since we are all so agreeable . But I care about the hit Harper took to press his point. I think the point is lost on the greedy public service unions.
 
PoliticalNick
Free Thinker
+3
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

You have no idea how much it hurts to agree with you but I am a fiscal conservative. Gee must be xmas since we are all so agreeable . But I care about the hit Harper took to press his point. I think the point is lost on the greedy public service unions.

I too am the fiscal conservative. Something Teddy never figured out. I have some socialistic morals but believe in reasonable pay equality over the public/private sectors and a balanced govt budget. I have even at times suggested a constitutional amendment requiring our govts to not run a deficit except for times of war (when we are attacked that is, not following the US into their BS invasions) or national disaster.

I too am impressed by Harper's moves on MP's pensions as well as his action on the long gun registry. In fact I agree with him on quite a bit. I just wish he was slightly more socially responsible.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

nice to see that teddy is staying true to form and not doing anything to change my opinion of his selfish self centered self.

Since the unions and teachers are getting more than he thinks they should.... then screw the kids. Kudos teddy, a true scrooge you are. Hopefully the young lady you laid your bullshyte on was able to see through it and see the true reason you weren't willing to help. You don't give a crap about the kids and are just too damn cheap.

G, it is not about them getting more than TB thinks they should. It is about them getting too much entirely. Especially when our standard of education is dropping faster than a skydiver without a chute. There are many teachers out there that just phone it in and teach to the lowest standard allowed who make double the median income, get 3 months holiday every year and have a gold-plated pension & benefits package. I wouldn't mind so much if they worked their a$$es off all year and gave our kids everything they need but sadly they don't, they just reap the benefits of many years of holding our children hostage to get what they demand.
 
gerryh
+1 / -1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

G, it is not about them getting more than TB thinks they should. It is about them getting too much entirely. Especially when our standard of education is dropping faster than a skydiver without a chute. There are many teachers out there that just phone it in and teach to the lowest standard allowed who make double the median income, get 3 months holiday every year and have a gold-plated pension & benefits package. I wouldn't mind so much if they worked their a$$es off all year and gave our kids everything they need but sadly they don't, they just reap the benefits of many years of holding our children hostage to get what they demand.


So that means we should tell the kids "screw you" because the teachers have gold plated salaries.
So the kids get screwed at both ends, but then again, people like teddy get's to hold onto his money all the while acting all "holier than thou".
 
PoliticalNick
Free Thinker
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So that means we should tell the kids "screw you" because the teachers have gold plated salaries.

Absolutely not! We should tell the teachers 'screw you' and pay them a fair wage for doing their job and if they cannot increase the standards of our children's education then fire their a$$es and find someone who can.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
+1
#9
Actually this is nothing more than a disguised rant against public sector workers and the unions.
I have no problem with paying for education, we want people who are well educated and paid
accordingly In many communities if we had lower paid people we would be paying more taxes
to make up for what these people were not contributing.
In addition, the private sector has not been offering wages that are realistic for the education
levels of people who invested their time into a career.
Whining about the unions has become a literary objective for some so I guess its what ever turns
ones crank. I wouldn't take it out on our children though, but the grinch would, and I am not a grinch
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Actually this is nothing more than a disguised rant against public sector workers and the unions.
I have no problem with paying for education, we want people who are well educated and paid
accordingly In many communities if we had lower paid people we would be paying more taxes
to make up for what these people were not contributing.
In addition, the private sector has not been offering wages that are realistic for the education
levels of people who invested their time into a career.
Whining about the unions has become a literary objective for some so I guess its what ever turns
ones crank. I wouldn't take it out on our children though, but the grinch would, and I am not a grinch

How do private sector wages compare with public sector wages?
 
tay
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

-
- Anyhow, when it came time to pay for my books the attractive young woman who was new to the store asked me if I wanted to contribute to the book fund. I asked about the fund and she explained that it was used by Chapters/Coles to provide new books to local schools "since they can't afford all of the books they need".
- I explained to her that I would not be contributing to this book fund because the reason schools had no money to buy books for their students was that about 82 cents of every education dollar went right into the pockets of the teachers and other staff in inflated salaries, extravagant perks and unsustainable pensions, thereby leaving no room in the budget for such trivial things as books, computers, science equipment, new desks and chairs, etc.
- I further explained that during the nine years of gross mismanagement by the departing Ontario premier DOLTon McGuilty, the teachers unions were given - until this year - everything they really wanted and that most teachers in elementary schools now made $92,000 and change and most teachers in seconardy schools made $94,000 and change.
- This intelligent young woman employed in the knowledge business was taken aback and remarked that a teacher she knew, a fellow university graduate, was only making in the low 40s in her first year as a teacher. I explained to her that her friend merely had to show up for the next ten years, stay out of jail and...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post

I hope she listened to your explanation well and becomes a teacher..................
 
Locutus
#12
I would have just said "No thanks".

My tongue dries out when I talk too much and people find me disagreeable when I eyeball them.

Aside from that, I'm all for books and junk. But please, Keith was put away wet.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post


I too am impressed by Harper's moves on MP's pensions as well as his action on the long gun registry. In fact I agree with him on quite a bit. I just wish he was slightly more socially responsible.



.

Considering the $600 billion debt (the country is broke) the reason for that may partly be lack of funds. Some would argue the troughs in Ottawa are too large, but I guess even if that was rectified the debt would still be $599 billion!
 
TeddyBallgame
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Actually this is nothing more than a disguised rant against public sector workers and the unions.
I have no problem with paying for education, we want people who are well educated and paid
accordingly In many communities if we had lower paid people we would be paying more taxes
to make up for what these people were not contributing.
In addition, the private sector has not been offering wages that are realistic for the education
levels of people who invested their time into a career.
Whining about the unions has become a literary objective for some so I guess its what ever turns
ones crank. I wouldn't take it out on our children though, but the grinch would, and I am not a grinch

- Even though your general views as a docterinaire former union leader are well known and you are from The Left Coast so you may have been a public rather than a privagte sector union leader, do you seriously expect anyone here with an IQ higher than his or her belt size in inches to believe that there is not a great deal of difference between public and private sector collective bargaining and strikes?

- Are you also utterly blind to what has happened in Greece and is happening right now to so many American cities and states due to the unsustainable cost of bloated governments with needless numbers of public employees drawing inflated pay and perks and grossly inflated pensions?

- Perhaps you are childless and have an "I'm alright Jack so screw the kids`attitude toward the econiomic and fiscal future of this country.

- Fortunately and somewhat to my pleasant surprise, the responses in this thread show that a number of board members actually are concerned about the economic and fiscal future of this country and our children and realize the increasingly punative drag that excessive public sector costs are putting on our economy and our finances.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

-

- Perhaps you are childless and have an "I'm alright Jack so screw the kids`attitude toward the econiomic and fiscal future of this country.

- Fortunately and somewhat to my pleasant surprise, the responses in this thread show that a number of board members actually are concerned about the economic and fiscal future of this country and our children and realize the increasingly punative drag that excessive public sector costs are putting on our economy and our finances.

I thought Grumpy had made it plain (on several occasions) that he is NOT childless (by a long shot)!-

As repugnant as it is I must admit I do have to whole heartedly agree with you that public sector costs are exorbitant. When will people understand that unions only add to the cost of a product? Don't get a swelled head as I doubt if we'll be agreeing often!
 
TeddyBallgame
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

nice to see that teddy is staying true to form and not doing anything to change my opinion of his selfish self centered self.

Since the unions and teachers are getting more than he thinks they should.... then screw the kids. Kudos teddy, a true scrooge you are. Hopefully the young lady you laid your bullshyte on was able to see through it and see the true reason you weren't willing to help. You don't give a crap about the kids and are just too damn cheap.

- If you are really a `Hall of Fame`member here then Heaven help us and the Hall of fame.

- Clearly, you are too obtuse to be able to understand the big picture problem that I have outlined in the opening post in this thread or the excellent supporting comments from others such as taxslave and PoliticalNick and perhaps should have confined yourself to just adding your usual childish and asinine reddie to my post.

- As well, I would suggest that you don`t make value judgements on the generosity or greed of posters here whom you actually know next to nothing about lest you be considered somewhat irrational and unbalanced. In my case, you have no idea how much of my own money and time I have actually given to legitimate charities and to specific families and individuals both here and during my lengthy stay in Nigeria not to mention what I have paid in individual and business taxes through the years to fund government programs such as for buying books for students. But let me assure you that I have paid more in taxes and also freely given more in donations than 90 some percent of Canadians. And I seriously doubt that you have the record and the cred to lecture me on this.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

- If you are really a `Hall of Fame`member here then Heaven help us and the Hall of fame.

- Clearly, you are too obtuse to be able to understand the big picture problem that I have outlined in the opening post in this thread or the excellent supporting comments from others such as taxslave and PoliticalNick and perhaps should have confined yourself to just adding your usual childish and asinine reddie to my post.

- As well, I would suggest that you don`t make value judgements on the generosity or greed of posters here whom you actually know next to nothing about lest you be considered somewhat irrational and unbalanced. In my case, you have no idea how much of my own money and time I have actually given to legitimate charities and to specific families and individuals both here and during my lengthy stay in Nigeria not to mention what I have paid in individual and business taxes through the years to fund government programs such as for buying books for students. But let me assure you that I have paid more in taxes and also freely given more in donations than 90 some percent of Canadians. And I seriously doubt that you have the record and the cred to lecture me on this.

A real philantropist- most of the genuine ones are anonymous!
 
TeddyBallgame
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by LocutusView Post

I would have just said "No thanks".

My tongue dries out when I talk too much and people find me disagreeable when I eyeball them.

Aside from that, I'm all for books and junk. But please, Keith was put away wet.

- Locutus ... When I decline to support something, I believe that I generally owe the person soliciting the support an explanation of why I declined to support him or his cause. In this case, the new Coles person was genuinely shocked by the data and analysis I presented to her and is now a more informed person because of this. And I didn`t eyeball her, she eyeballed me when I presented my case for declining to support her cause. Be assured that I may be longer in the tooth now but not so old that my eyeballs were not focused rather lower down that where her eyes were located.

- As for Keith, my wife and I had dinner with him and his wife Pattie in Barbados at the Sandy Lane and they were good company. He was clearly a musical genius, had a great sense of humour and of fun, and seemed a genuinely nice, down to earth guy. He spoke about many people including his early idol (and one of mine) Jerry Lee Lewis and his friend and enemy and collaborator for decades Mick Jagger. I got the feeling that while Keith felt that Mick was the more educated and sophisticated of the two (e.g. Jagger had attended the London School of Economics, was more business than musically oriented, and at the time I met Keith was a friend of Canada`s then finance minister Michael Wilson), he also felt that he himself was the better musician of the two. .

- It was funny how I met Keith. My wife and I were there for a couple of weeks at Christmas and had a small corner ground floor suite right next to the beach in a hotel on the west coast of the island. Unknown to us, Keith and some family and friends were renting the villa next door that was about 20 feet from our suite.

- In Barbados, the beaches belong to everybody. So the morning after we arrived, I decided to clear out the alcoholicallly induced cobwebs with a brisk walk along the beach heading south toward Bridgetown. Maybe 100 feet from our suite I noticed this leather faced white guy looking somewhat like a vagrant lying semi-comatose in the sand. I noticed him because I almost stepped on him, accidentally kicking or at least nudging some sand in his face. Stopping and bending down to apologize, I found to my amazement that it was the wild man himself, Keith Richards. He was very good humoured about it and we got to talking. Richards always liked Canada and Canadians and I knew Margaret Trudeau`s friendly drug supplier in Ottawa (a radio guy not a hard core criminal) and Keith, err, `knew`Margaret Trudeau so we started yacking about that and went on for over an hour. During our two weeks in Barbados, we got together a few more times including the dinner at Sandy Lane.

- A couple of times during the Stones`concert visits to Toronto, Keith has taken the trouble to track me down and get us tickets to the concerts and back stage passes. A great guy!

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

A real philantropist- most of the genuine ones are anonymous!

- JLM ... As you bloody well know, the only reason I mentioned this at all is that this gerrhy lefty moron who now puts reddies beside all of my posts falsely accused me on the basis of no evidence or information whatsoever of being a selfish cheapskate.

- I did not elaborate with details because it really is nobody`s business but mine and those whom I have been happy to be able to help.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#19
Sometimes a simple "No Thank You" is all that is required at the checkout stand. I know the guy behind you in line certainly would think so.

The teachers pension fund owned the Leafs for a bit so some of their pension money would have come from suckers who watched losers on the ice and paid a huge sum of money for that privelage rather than the taxpayers.
 
gerryh
+2
#20
I put very little stock in name dropers, and that is all Teddy is.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+2
#21
[QUOTE=TeddyBallgame;1689180

- JLM ... As you bloody well know, the only reason I mentioned this at all is that this gerrhy lefty moron who now puts reddies beside all of my posts falsely accused me on the basis of no evidence or information whatsoever of being a selfish cheapskate.

- I did not elaborate with details because it really is nobody`s business but mine and those whom I have been happy to be able to help.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't bloody well know as I haven't had too many "reddies" from Gerry, so I can only assume you are getting them from him in response to assinine statements, which I'm sure you are aware you are well known for. -
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+4
#22
The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.
 
Nuggler
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.


If only it would be done, RCS. Probably not in our lifetime.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

If only it would be done, RCS. Probably not in our lifetime.

Nope, unfortunately it isn't only the politicians politicizing the education system.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
+2
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.

Not to mention, that money goes exactly where we want it to, instead of into the teachers' pockets as so many are loathe to see it go.

Interesting point to make regarding modern schools.... my daughter is now in grade seven, and at her current school, she's encouraged to bring her web accessing technology. ipods, nintendo ds's, playstation vitas, tablets, laptops, smart phones... it makes no difference to the teachers. Tech means internet access at their fingertips, and the internet means virtually unlimited learning materials. My daughter reads incessantly on her ipod thanks to the elibrary.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

- Yesterday I visited my neighbourhood Coles bookstore to buy some books for relatives and for my own Christmas reading. (For me I scored Keith Richard's autobiography on sale marked down to $8 from $35 and since I had met and socialized with Keith in Barbados in 1986 I had been meaning to buy the book ever since it came out. Richards is only one month older but much older looking than me and I still chuckle over his comment at the time, "I guess I must have aged a f#ck of a lot in 30 days, mate".)
- Anyhow, when it came time to pay for my books the attractive young woman who was new to the store asked me if I wanted to contribute to the book fund. I asked about the fund and she explained that it was used by Chapters/Coles to provide new books to local schools "since they can't afford all of the books they need".
- I explained to her that I would not be contributing to this book fund because the reason schools had no money to buy books for their students was that about 82 cents of every education dollar went right into the pockets of the teachers and other staff in inflated salaries, extravagant perks and unsustainable pensions, thereby leaving no room in the budget for such trivial things as books, computers, science equipment, new desks and chairs, etc.
- I further explained that during the nine years of gross mismanagement by the departing Ontario premier DOLTon McGuilty, the teachers unions were given - until this year...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
You like pro sports? Do you support any sports clubs by buying tickets, sportswear with club logos, etc.? Why should these clubs and players be getting $millions every year when all they do is provide a little entertainment and teachers help raise our kids? I guess entertainment is more valuable than kids development.
You seem to like politics, in spite of the fact that politics (along with religion) has caused more grief than anything else on the planet. So do you donate to whatever political club you prefer? Why should politicians get what they get when so many of them screw up the country?
Do you support greedy CEO's (especially any that screw their companies and expect huge severence packages as a reward)?

Attaboy, keep demonizing teachers.

Oh, and BTW, since when is education a gov't monopoly? People home-educate and send their kids to private schools.

I might add that I do agree that SOME unions are out of hand. I was a public employee however and have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA and a couple other firefighters' unions, even though there is a little bit of greed in it, too.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Dec 18th, 2012 at 02:36 PM..
 
TeddyBallgame
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I might add that I do agree that SOME unions are out of hand. I was a public employee however and have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA and a couple other firefighters' unions, even though there is a little bit of greed in it, too.

- G ... Of course you have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA seeing as how it got you one of the very best heavily publicly subsidized, permanently guaranteed benefits, fully cost of living indexed, early retirement pensions in the entire bloody country and enabled you to take your early retirement on your 50 acres in the Kooteneys. It might shock you to learn that most private sector workers have no pension plan at all and the minority who do have plans that are on average worth less than 30% of yours for the same contribution levels. Instead of 50 acres in the Kooteneys, too many of these unpensioned guys get to work 10-20 years longer than you and get not 50 acres but 50 square feet in a rooming house. But keep pitching to the gullible left wingers out there.

- I won't bother replying to the rest of your silliness since it is merely a regurgitation of public sector union talking points used to justify their special priveleges and treatment at the expense of the tapped out taxpaying schmucks in the private sector other than to say that any support I choose to give to sports teams is voluntary, is based on merit and results, and I get to determine the level of said support. With education, it is compulsory, it is in no way based on merit and results, and the level of support is far higher than for any sports team support I may choose to indulge in and is determined by others with no input from me. So your comparison is specious and nothing more than public sector union propoganda. By the way, I think you'll find that even members of private sector unions are increasiongly catching on to the public sector monopoly union con jobs and how they are costing jobs in the competitive market sector.

- You mentioned some unions being out of hand. These are almost invariably monopoly public sector unions and they are not some but almost all of the public sector monopoly unions. Here is but a typical example from today's press reports and underlines why I don't encourage this fiscal rape of the taxpayers by voluntarily giving even more money to the education bureacracy and thereby helping to buy it even more time to piss all over the rest of us instead of focusing on its productivity and entitlement problems.

TDSB workers used public funds for personal business, manager says

KATE HAMMER - EDUCATION REPORTER

The Globe and Mail

Published Thursday, Dec. 20 2012, 3:00 AM EST

Last updated Thursday, Dec. 20 2012, 4:30 AM EST

Toronto District School Board employees visited bars, bought groceries and filled the gas tanks of their cars using public money and during working hours, according to the manager appointed to crack down on the board’s troubled building management department.

Angelos Bacopoulos, a former manager of the city’s waste management services, was hired just over two years ago as chief officer of facilities. Since then, he says, he has been working to unmake what he described as a deeply seeded culture of entitlement and complacency that pervaded the unionized staff.

What he found was an environment where millions of dollars were spent executing more than 160,000 work orders each year, with so little oversight that employees were able to visit a bar while on the clock.

In recent months, revelations of past overspending on everything from routine maintenance to major construction work at the TDSB have emerged, and the pressure is on Mr. Bacopoulos and his staff to turns things around.

The board is looking to make major changes as it works to rebuild faith with the public and with the Ontario government, which has frozen funding for new school buildings. The contract between the TDSB and its skilled trades union expired at the end of August. Sources said talks have reached an impasse, and that the board has filed for conciliation.

Mr. Bacopoulos spoke with The Globe and Mail about what he discovered as he dug into his new job, and how he plans to get Canada’s largest school board back the right track.

Hitting the bar

Installing GPS devices in the board’s fleet of vehicles is the most controversial recommendation Mr. Bacopoulos has made yet. When he introduced the tracking devices to the city’s waste management fleet, workers responded by bashing and breaking the devices. (He later installed protective metal shields.)

Surveillance details have already discovered that some TDSB staff are leaving job sites, visiting bars, and taking roundabout routes that decrease productivity, Mr. Bacopoulos said. GPS devices will help management track employees’ movements.

“Early next year we’ll be able to install them. We’re going to be able to monitor the activities of our folks, make sure that they’re taking the proper routes, that they’re being productive.”

Wild spending

Facilities staff are given credit cards that are meant to be used for purchasing supplies such as screws, nails or wood. Mr. Bacopoulos and his management staff noticed that employees were making unexpectedly large purchases, often at smaller “mom and pop” stores that made cost-appropriateness hard to track. He implemented new rules limiting the vendors where workers could shop, and began monitoring their purchases.

“They were buying things like groceries,” said Mr. Bacopoulos. “But people recognize we started monitoring that and started to straighten their ways. They know we’re still at that.”

Leaving early

At the end of their shift, custodians set alarms on school buildings to close them for the night. One of the first things Mr. Bacopoulos says he requested when he started working for the TDSB were records on those alarms, to see when they were being turned on.

“I found some really weird things happening,” he said. “Like the alarms are being set sometimes as early as three or four hours before the end of the shift.”

Facilities management began monitoring those alarms, using them as a metric to ensure that custodians were working their full shifts. Monthly reports initially revealed schools were regularly being closed down early, so managers began taking discipline action against staff.

“We’ve got that under control and people are working their full shifts and setting the alarms when they’re supposed to be setting them.”

Filling the tank

To refuel their company vehicles, facilities staff were given credit cards and free rein to fill up wherever they like. Mr. Bacopoulos found that one of the biggest consumers of gasoline was a school custodian who only had a snow blower and lawnmower to fill.

“We did an investigation and determined that he was using it for his own personal use and we ended up terminating that caretaker,” Mr. Bacopoulos said.

Staff are now required to use the board’s own fuelling stations and mileage is monitored and measured against fuel consumption.




-
Last edited by TeddyBallgame; Dec 20th, 2012 at 06:52 AM..
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by TeddyBallgameView Post

- G ... Of course you have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA seeing as how it got you one of the very best heavily publicly subsidized, permanently guaranteed benefits, fully cost of living indexed, early retirement pensions in the entire bloody country and enabled you to take your early retirement on your 50 acres in the Kooteneys. It might shock you to learn that most private sector workers have no pension plan at all and the minority who do have plans that are on average worth less than 30%



-

That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.


The difference is; Investor' Group will not (can not) guarantee the same pay-out terms that are back stopped and fully guaranteed by the tax payer regardless of how the investment fund does.
 
TeddyBallgame
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.

- JLM ... True anybody can set up and pay 100% for their own plan but what you either conveniently or ignorantly fail to mention is that if you do as I and apparently you did and set up a retirement investment plan then it is done entirely through your own money rather than through an employer provided plan in which at least 50% of the retirement contribution is paid by your employer rather than by you.

- Public sector pension plans are even juicier than the standard private sector employer provided plan in which half of the fund is paid for by your employer. But clearly you are being a moron as usual and I won't waste my time trying to explain the significant differences between public and private sector pension plans to you which, on average, give the public sector retiree three times the payout for the same contribution amounts as the private sector retiree. Nor will I bother to educate you on the fact that over 50% of private sector workers are not eligible for a pension plan to which their employer contributes.

- But I will suggest that you forgo your usual bull**** practice of winging it when you attempt comically to dispute facts with me. Unlike you, I don't make things up, I look them up.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

The difference is; Investor' Group will not (can not) guarantee the same pay-out terms that are back stopped and fully guaranteed by the tax payer regardless of how the investment fund does.

- CM ... Very true and there are other significant differences, some of which are covered in my response to JLM's usual ill informed blather.

- As I'm sure you know, the private sector company pension plans are quickly transitioning from defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans through which actual benefits will be contingent upon actual market performance. This is because the private sector employers understand that the defined benefits plans are too rich to be realistically sustainable in today's slow growth and long life environment. Eventually, even government employers will have to recognize this reality which is now bankrupting several US cities and threatens to bankrupt such major US states as California. My guess is that the Conservative federal government will, as usual, have to take the lead and shoulder most of the blame when this transition takes place for new employees but it will take place because the economy simply can't support the extravagant public sector pensions currently being provided when the next wave of retirees hits. You can also expect to see governments tackle some of the other public sector pension piggery such as full annual indexation to the COL and ridiculously early retirements without serious penalties.

- Believe me that the focus of the next public sector compensation war will not be on pay but on pensions. And public sector union folks should not expect a lot of sympathy from those in the private sector that will have to work at least another couple of years longer to receive their piddly little OAS and CPP payouts while the public sector folks fight to be able to work less than thirty years and then retire on lavish, indexed pensions that the private sector schmucks can only dream about for more years than they actually worked.
 

Similar Threads

3
Merry Christmas Salmon lovers, from Scrooge
by Tonington | Dec 26th, 2007
no new posts