Air Canada Pilots Say Stress Could Lead To Empty Cockpits


Liberalman
#1
Air Canada Pilots Say Stress Could Lead To Empty Cockpits

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120314/air-canada-back-to-work-bill-120313

Air Canada pilots are leading the way for the other unions to be more creative on job actions when back to work legislation is involved.

Calling in sick on mass or working to rule or slowing down their work.

We will have to wait and see what the federal labour minister has up her sleeves and is our Prime Minister willing to pull a Ronald Reagan where everyone is fired in the union in order to rebuild.

 
TenPenny
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
I would think it would be appropriate if the payroll dept at Air Canada was 'too stressed' to pay the pilots who called in claiming to be stressed out.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+1
#3
A very good Friend & close Relative of mine (just a few days ago...)
had a return flight from Vancouver to Regina booked. It took her and
her husband almost a full day (the 24hr kind) to fly from Vancouver
to Regina. Air Canada (Sucks!) is the best thing that ever happened to
WestJet.
 
dumpthemonarchy
Free Thinker
+1
#4
Teachers in BC and Air Canada pilots have a sense of entitlement that goes a little far, especially when there is no shortage of either occupation in the country to replace them. I flew on an European airline and they offered unlimited food and drink there, I won't miss Air Canada.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#5
I won't likely work for any other employees because:

602.02 No operator of an aircraft shall require any person to act as a flight crew member and no person shall act as a flight crew member, if either the person or the operator has any reason to believe, having regard to the circumstances of the particular flight to be undertaken, that the person
(a) is suffering or is likely to suffer from fatigue; or
(b) is otherwise unfit to perform properly the person's duties as a flight crew member.

Part b has a wide scope. It is a double edged sword because it invloves the requirement to both self diagnose, and self report. Pilots are as notoriously bad at both as doctors and nurses, usually working when they shouldn't be. However, the stress thing can work, and quite a few aeromedical examiners are very sympathetic, (they have licenses to protect too). I don't know how Lisa Raitt can get around this one beause of privacy laws.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
+1
#6
Once they use up their paid sick days I bet the "stress" goes away. Or at least down to a level where they feel inclined to collect a paycheque again. Imagine how high the "stress" level would be if Air Canada was to declare bankruptcy and their paycheques and pensions disappeared.
 
PoliticalNick
Free Thinker
#7
I would suggest that now the pilots have said they will lie they are open to have to provide independent confirmation of an actual stress issue. Every one that wants to call in 'stressed' should be made to see a third party doctor before returning to duty and if found to be false then all time is unpaid and matched by an equal number of unpaid days on suspension.

Either that or just fire all of them and hire them again at bottom wage without a union.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
+1
#8
Taxiing down the tarmac, the jetliner abruptly stopped, turned around and
returned to the gate.
After an hour-long wait, it finally took off.
A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?"
"The pilot was bothered by a noise he heard in the engine," explained the Flight
Attendant, "and it took us a while to find a new pilot".

Seriously, I can understand why some pilots would be stressed. A friend of ours is restricted to locomotion by wheelcahir. He flew to Pearson from YVR (Vancouver) and when he arrived at Pearson he couldn't get out of the plane. One of the crew informed him that his wheelchair had been left in Vancouver. Even the pilot was pretty miffed.
He sat there yakking with the cleaning crew until someone brought a wheelchair that Pearson had lent him. He jokes about it now. Says Vancouver's luggage dude had a wicked sense of "gotcha" humor. lol
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

A very good Friend & close Relative of mine (just a few days ago...)
had a return flight from Vancouver to Regina booked. It took her and
her husband almost a full day (the 24hr kind) to fly from Vancouver
to Regina. Air Canada (Sucks!) is the best thing that ever happened to
WestJet.


I had coffee with this person tonight & I stand corrected on my above
statement. Due to the "work to rule" thing that nobody would admit was
happening (but neither would they deny that it was happening), it took
them over a full day (more than 24hrs) from the time their plane was
suppose to have departed Vancouver...until it landed in Regina.

For perspective, I could drive from Vancouver to Regina in the same
timeframe....and still get in about 6hrs of sack-time mid-route in a
motel.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Once they use up their paid sick days I bet the "stress" goes away. Or at least down to a level where they feel inclined to collect a paycheque again. Imagine how high the "stress" level would be if Air Canada was to declare bankruptcy and their paycheques and pensions disappeared.

I'm not really familiar anymore with their benefits, but I suspect that when their sick days run out they go on STD, and depending on the plan, it can actually be more beneficial pay wise. BTW, stress is a legitimate illness according to Transport Canada.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

I would suggest that now the pilots have said they will lie they are open to have to provide independent confirmation of an actual stress issue. Every one that wants to call in 'stressed' should be made to see a third party doctor before returning to duty and if found to be false then all time is unpaid and matched by an equal number of unpaid days on suspension.

Either that or just fire all of them and hire them again at bottom wage without a union.

They never said they will lie, and as I mentioned, stress is a legitimate illness. Aeromedical examiners are independant third party doctors, your family doctor may be one of them. It is a gutsey move for the Union Chairman to state that pilots may book because of stress, if I were him I wouldn't have blabbed it ot the press. Any illegal self help is usually met with stiff penalties,especially for the union executive. That being said, if a pilot claims he or she is not fit for duty you will never find a doctor willing to risk their license to refute that claim.

If the company fires them, that sets the company up for an entirely different, and even more costly world of hurt, I've been a player in this game for too long, and it is a lot more entertaining to be a spectator.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Taxiing down the tarmac, the jetliner abruptly stopped, turned around and
returned to the gate.
After an hour-long wait, it finally took off.
A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?"
"The pilot was bothered by a noise he heard in the engine," explained the Flight
Attendant, "and it took us a while to find a new pilot".

Whoa, that's not even funny. If one pilot has a problem with an airplane, and the solution is to find another pilot, I would follow the first pilot off the thing. Sorry, I personally know of too many catastrophic accidents for which the cause was this type of solution to a problem. The hotshot who will do what others are afraid to do eventually end up killing people, I've seen it time and time again.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
+2
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduynView Post

Whoa, that's not even funny. If one pilot has a problem with an airplane, and the solution is to find another pilot, I would follow the first pilot off the thing. Sorry, I personally know of too many catastrophic accidents for which the cause was this type of solution to a problem. The hotshot who will do what others are afraid to do eventually end up killing people, I've seen it time and time again.

lmao Your reaction to the joke was even funnier than the joke. I got the joke from a civil aviation forum. I've also heard lawyers telling some pretty derogatory lawyer jokes as well as doctors joking about things they come across.
If you are that sensitive, perhaps you should avoid reading my posts. After all, I have been known to make or post the odd joke about crispy critters (firefighters' term for people burned in fires).
 
Liberalman
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by l gilbertView Post

lmao your reaction to the joke was even funnier than the joke. I got the joke from a civil aviation forum. I've also heard lawyers telling some pretty derogatory lawyer jokes as well as doctors joking about things they come across.
If you are that sensitive, perhaps you should avoid reading my posts. After all, i have been known to make or post the odd joke about crispy critters (firefighters' term for people burned in fires).

Laughing Out Loud
Last edited by Liberalman; Mar 18th, 2012 at 07:37 AM..Reason: ....
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduynView Post

They never said they will lie, and as I mentioned, stress is a legitimate illness. Aeromedical examiners are independant third party doctors, your family doctor may be one of them. It is a gutsey move for the Union Chairman to state that pilots may book because of stress, if I were him I wouldn't have blabbed it ot the press. Any illegal self help is usually met with stiff penalties,especially for the union executive. That being said, if a pilot claims he or she is not fit for duty you will never find a doctor willing to risk their license to refute that claim.

The potential fallout from playing the stress card will also relate to the employability (as a pilot that is) for a similar position. The medical records are kept very accurate and accessible to the appropriate bodies for review.

These people may just work-to-rule themselves right out of the industry if they're not careful
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+2
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

lmao Your reaction to the joke was even funnier than the joke. I got the joke from a civil aviation forum. I've also heard lawyers telling some pretty derogatory lawyer jokes as well as doctors joking about things they come across.
If you are that sensitive, perhaps you should avoid reading my posts. After all, I have been known to make or post the odd joke about crispy critters (firefighters' term for people burned in fires).


I thought it was funny.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

I had coffee with this person tonight & I stand corrected on my above
statement. Due to the "work to rule" thing that nobody would admit was
happening (but neither would they deny that it was happening), it took
them over a full day (more than 24hrs) from the time their plane was
suppose to have departed Vancouver...until it landed in Regina.

For perspective, I could drive from Vancouver to Regina in the same
timeframe....and still get in about 6hrs of sack-time mid-route in a
motel.

I'm wondering if we should rethink our earlier idea about the intravenous alcohol drip. Given the above story, it now seems it could result in alcohol poisoning!
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

I had coffee with this person tonight & I stand corrected on my above
statement. Due to the "work to rule" thing that nobody would admit was
happening (but neither would they deny that it was happening), it took
them over a full day (more than 24hrs) from the time their plane was
suppose to have departed Vancouver...until it landed in Regina.

For perspective, I could drive from Vancouver to Regina in the same
timeframe....and still get in about 6hrs of sack-time mid-route in a
motel.

That's not all that bad. I have spent over 24 hrs flying 150 miles down the coast more than once.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

lmao Your reaction to the joke was even funnier than the joke. I got the joke from a civil aviation forum. I've also heard lawyers telling some pretty derogatory lawyer jokes as well as doctors joking about things they come across.
If you are that sensitive, perhaps you should avoid reading my posts. After all, I have been known to make or post the odd joke about crispy critters (firefighters' term for people burned in fires).

Okay, okay, it was just after 2:00 am and I'd just got off work and didn't recognize it as a joke. I do work pretty close to these folks and tensions are high at the moment, so forgive me if I am a bit touchy. BTW I don't necessarily agree with some of their issues, but I can't imagine taking a pay cut when the CEO's pay packet at the time was north of $40M.
 
EagleSmack
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Taxiing down the tarmac, the jetliner abruptly stopped, turned around and
returned to the gate.
After an hour-long wait, it finally took off.
A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?"
"The pilot was bothered by a noise he heard in the engine," explained the Flight
Attendant, "and it took us a while to find a new pilot".

That's hilarious!

Was that an actual incident?
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduynView Post

Okay, okay, it was just after 2:00 am and I'd just got off work and didn't recognize it as a joke. I do work pretty close to these folks and tensions are high at the moment, so forgive me if I am a bit touchy. BTW I don't necessarily agree with some of their issues, but I can't imagine taking a pay cut when the CEO's pay packet at the time was north of $40M.

lol No worries.

Yeah, salaries do tend to be diverse between administrative types and the working classes, alright.

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

That's hilarious!

Was that an actual incident?

I don't really know if the joke was based on a real story or not, but I wouldn't put it past some airlines, for sure.
Was in the bank yesterday and a friend who works there just got back from Disneyland. She said her family won't ever fly United Airlines again. Pretty frustrating tale she shared with me. The lost luggage was the good news. lol
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Was in the bank yesterday and a friend who works there just got back from Disneyland. She said her family won't ever fly United Airlines again. Pretty frustrating tale she shared with me. The lost luggage was the good news. lol

Funny, one of our local artists wrote a song about United:
United Breaks Guitars - YouTube

And the United share price actually took a dip because of it.
Last edited by bobnoorduyn; Mar 19th, 2012 at 01:58 PM..
 
mentalfloss
No Party Affiliation
#20
They should just quit en masse and go work for West Jet instead.

The huge drop in staff would be enough to cause Raitt to have an angina attack.
 

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