Defence Reform

Defence Reform

View Poll Results: Does Canada need a military?
Yes	23	95.83%
No	1	4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

NewGlobalOrder

#1Feb 2nd, 2012

- Because Canada does not have any hostile neighbours, Canada can afford not having a standing military force. Therefore, I would dissolve the Canadian Armed Forces, and turn it into the Canadian Emergency Response Agency

- CERA is a multipurpose aid force to assist provinces and territories whenever they need it, because there has been in the past, and will probably be in the future, a natural disaster happening somewhere in Canada

- When asked by a province, territory, or city, CERA will respond to a State of Emergency. To keep a clear chain of command, CERA personnel, equipment and supplies, will be under control of the local authority

- CERA will only take over when the local authority doesn’t have a well organized chain of command, or they just do not know what they’re doing

- Only the Prime Minister, or the Minister responsible for CERA can over-rule the local authority

- CERA personnel will take paramedic, firefighting, policing, riot and other forms of training related to dealing with a State of Emergency

- CERA time to time will also help out other countries when they request for assistance, like with the nuclear meltdown in Japan

- All military equipment not needed for CERA, will either be transferred over to the United Nations to assist in peacekeeping operations, or will be sold

- $1 billion of the military budget will be transferred to the annual budget of CSIS, as terrorism, whether it be religious or political, is the true threat to our national security, not invasion from another country

- As for the rest of the military budget, a small portion will be set aside for CERA, leaving the rest to be spent elsewhere

gerryh

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

ROFLMAO...... I can see this is going to go over like a lead balloon on this forum.

Dexter Sinister

No Party Affiliation

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

The planet is far too small to base any argument on the claim that Canada has no hostile neighbours, because it's simply not true. There ARE nations and transnational organizations that are hostile to us, and if you think they're too far away to do us any harm you're living in a fantasy.

Colpy

Conservative

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

- Because Canada does not have any hostile neighbours, Canada can afford not having a standing military force. Therefore, I would dissolve the Canadian Armed Forces, and turn it into the Canadian Emergency Response Agency

That's right, and the USA had no hostile neighbours on Dec. 6, 1941.

That kinda changed the next morning........and that was with the technology and the ability to project power of 70 years ago.....

Let's see.....a short list of hostiles that border us over water......Russia, China, North Korea.

And we are signatories of a number of military treaties that require us to be able to step up to the plate and work with our allies.

You need to rethink.

I'm being very polite to the new guy...

Angstrom

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

A small specialized very Elite force,
With a Switzerland like, program for defense
could be a good idea for Canada.

Finding ways to cut and save and get the same
results is possible. Especially with drone's
Today. War is not what it use to be.

Yes Canada needs a military.But it needs to modernize.
Times change, things move forward.
Revamping and making our army modern and efficient
and less costly, sounds like a good idea to me.

EagleSmack

#6 Top Rated Post

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

The Cylons are our friends... they want peace.

gerryh

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

I'm being very polite to the new guy...

Pussy

Last edited by gerryh; Feb 2nd, 2012 at 07:51 PM..

wulfie68

No Party Affiliation

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Sooooo...

CERA means
- no national structure for SAR operations, because the municipalities will all be after control of the resources.
- no Coast Guard meaning foreign vessels have no reason to respect Canadian law in our waters
- Canada will withdraw from all its alliances and treaty obligations meaning that countries who were formerly allied to us now have less reason to respect our sovereignty in places like the Arctic and in more extreme cases no reason to fear retribution if an incident should occur leaving us with pretty much the sole recourse of the ineffectiveness and corruption UN.

And that doesn't include the point that Dexter Sinister made earlier...

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

That's right, and the USA had no hostile neighbours on Dec. 6, 1941.

That kinda changed the next morning........and that was with the technology and the ability to project power of 70 years ago.....

Let's see.....a short list of hostiles that border us over water......Russia, China, North Korea.

And we are signatories of a number of military treaties that require us to be able to step up to the plate and work with our allies.

You need to rethink.

I'm being very polite to the new guy...

You forgot the US.

Thoughtpolice

#10

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

We have an enemy. His name is Dave.

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

#11

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

- Because Canada does not have any hostile neighbours, Canada can afford not having a standing military force. Therefore, I would dissolve the Canadian Armed Forces, and turn it into the Canadian Emergency Response Agency

- CERA is a multipurpose aid force to assist provinces and territories whenever they need it, because there has been in the past, and will probably be in the future, a natural disaster happening somewhere in Canada

- When asked by a province, territory, or city, CERA will respond to a State of Emergency. To keep a clear chain of command, CERA personnel, equipment and supplies, will be under control of the local authority

- CERA will only take over when the local authority doesn’t have a well organized chain of command, or they just do not know what they’re doing

- Only the Prime Minister, or the Minister responsible for CERA can over-rule the local authority

- CERA personnel will take paramedic, firefighting, policing, riot and other forms of training related to dealing with a State of Emergency

- CERA time to time will also help out other countries when they request for assistance, like with the nuclear meltdown in Japan

- All military equipment not needed for CERA, will either be transferred over to the United Nations to assist in peacekeeping operations, or will be sold

- $1 billion of the military budget will be transferred to the annual budget of CSIS, as terrorism, whether it be religious or political, is the true threat to our national security, not invasion from another country

- As for the rest of the military budget, a small portion will be set aside for CERA, leaving the rest to be spent elsewhere

How much is your monthly drug bill?

Ron in Regina

Free Thinker

#12

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Thoughtpolice

We have an enemy. His name is Dave.

Dave?

lone wolf

Free Thinker

#13

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Thoughtpolice

We have an enemy. His name is Dave.

lolydoo poo?

Tonington

#14

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Who will help Toronto to dig out of those snow storms if we have no military? Are you going to replace the military with a hippy corps of self-actualizing numbskulls? Take a deep breath and clear your mind, problem solved....lol

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

#15

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

- Because Canada does not have any hostile neighbours, Canada can afford not having a standing military force. Therefore, I would dissolve the Canadian Armed Forces, and turn it into the Canadian Emergency Response Agency

- CERA is a multipurpose aid force to assist provinces and territories whenever they need it, because there has been in the past, and will probably be in the future, a natural disaster happening somewhere in Canada

- When asked by a province, territory, or city, CERA will respond to a State of Emergency. To keep a clear chain of command, CERA personnel, equipment and supplies, will be under control of the local authority

- CERA will only take over when the local authority doesn’t have a well organized chain of command, or they just do not know what they’re doing

- Only the Prime Minister, or the Minister responsible for CERA can over-rule the local authority

- CERA personnel will take paramedic, firefighting, policing, riot and other forms of training related to dealing with a State of Emergency

- CERA time to time will also help out other countries when they request for assistance, like with the nuclear meltdown in Japan

- All military equipment not needed for CERA, will either be transferred over to the United Nations to assist in peacekeeping operations, or will be sold

- $1 billion of the military budget will be transferred to the annual budget of CSIS, as terrorism, whether it be religious or political, is the true threat to our national security, not invasion from another country

- As for the rest of the military budget, a small portion will be set aside for CERA, leaving the rest to be spent elsewhere

And when that nutbar from NK lobs a nuke over here just cuz we looked at him sideways, we defend ourselves with this CERA? You volunteer for CERA first.

Ron in Regina

Free Thinker

#16

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

lolydoo poo?

Oh God....it it that time again?

I frick'n hope not....

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

#17

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina

Dave?

lol First thing I thought was Cheech and Chong's "Dave".

Cheech and Chong - Dave39s Not Here - YouTube

NewGlobalOrder

#18

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

That's right, and the USA had no hostile neighbours on Dec. 6, 1941.

That kinda changed the next morning........and that was with the technology and the ability to project power of 70 years ago.....

Let's see.....a short list of hostiles that border us over water......Russia, China, North Korea.

And we are signatories of a number of military treaties that require us to be able to step up to the plate and work with our allies.

You need to rethink.

I'm being very polite to the new guy...

1) Thx for the politeness.

2) Russia and China do not invade other countries. (not taking into account countries in their region of the world) America/Britain/France are the nations that like to invade.

As for North Korea, are you kidding me? Yes, they build missiles that can hit America, but that is about it. North Korea keeps to itself.

Now lets say China invaded Canada. What do you think will happen?

We have a piss ant military force. The boy scouts of America could take us one.

If Canada should have a military force, we are faced with 3 options:

1) Spend $100 billion annually on our military. Which would be just over 1/3rd of our budget. We spend $23 billion currently, (Global National said $20) so an increase of $77-80 billion.

2) Build nuclear weapons. Sure, we signed the NPT, but who cares, right?

3) Secretly develop cold fusion and laser cannon technology, and make them look like satellites, then launch them into space. Sure, it goes against the international agreement not to weaponize space, but it's going to happen anyways, right?

And if an asteroid is going to hit America or Africa, killing 1 million people, we won't use our laser cannon technology to blow it up, because then the world would know, therefore, saving 1 million lives, is against Canada's national interest.

Besides... if China or Russia was to invade, what do you think the US would do?

If it makes you feel any better, I could allow the US Navy & Air Force over Canadian territory.

Ron in Regina

Free Thinker

#19

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

What do your constituents want, and why?

NewGlobalOrder

#20

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68

Sooooo...

CERA means
- no national structure for SAR operations, because the municipalities will all be after control of the resources.
- no Coast Guard meaning foreign vessels have no reason to respect Canadian law in our waters
- Canada will withdraw from all its alliances and treaty obligations meaning that countries who were formerly allied to us now have less reason to respect our sovereignty in places like the Arctic and in more extreme cases no reason to fear retribution if an incident should occur leaving us with pretty much the sole recourse of the ineffectiveness and corruption UN.

And that doesn't include the point that Dexter Sinister made earlier...

I do not consider the Coast Guard, the Canadian Navy.

Many countries right now, are trying to make their point why they own the Arctic. The Arctic doesn't belong to any nation, and should be international territory. Nations only want it, for the oil, and we can't risk an oil leak in the Arctic.

No nation fears the Canadian military as is.

As for "transnational organizations" are you speaking of terrorist groups? CSIS has a budget of $300-500 million, if I recall correctly. I want to add $1 billion to their annual budget.

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

#21

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

1) Thx for the politeness.

2) Russia and China do not invade other countries. (not taking into account countries in their region of the world) America/Britain/France are the nations that like to invade.

Um, ever heard of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic? Ever heard of the Sino-Indian war? Ever heard of a country called Tibet?

Quote:

As for North Korea, are you kidding me? Yes, they build missiles that can hit America, but that is about it. North Korea keeps to itself.

Quote:

Now lets say China invaded Canada. What do you think will happen?

First off, I don't think they would. Secondly, I think the USA would likely think that a Chinese armed flotilla was heading for it and meet it halfway.

Quote:

We have a piss ant military force. The boy scouts of America could take us one.

What're you smoking?

Quote:

If Canada should have a military force, we are faced with 3 options:

1) Spend $100 billion annually on our military. Which would be just over 1/3rd of our budget. We spend $23 billion currently, (Global National said $20) so an increase of $77-80 billion.

Why would we need that much more military than we have now?

Quote:

2) Build nuclear weapons. Sure, we signed the NPT, but who cares, right?

I think Canada's a little different than Pakistan.

Quote:

3) Secretly develop cold fusion and laser cannon technology, and make them look like satellites, then launch them into space. Sure, it goes against the international agreement not to weaponize space, but it's going to happen anyways, right?

And if an asteroid is going to hit America or Africa, killing 1 million people, we won't use our laser cannon technology to blow it up, because then the world would know, therefore, saving 1 million lives, is against Canada's national interest.

Hashish?

Quote:

Besides... if China or Russia was to invade, what do you think the US would do?

If it makes you feel any better, I could allow the US Navy & Air Force over Canadian territory.

NATO forces are allowed over Canada anyway. Wanna know why?

gerryh

#22

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina

What do your constituents want, and why?

I doubt very much he really gives a shyte when it comes to what his constituents want.

L Gilbert

No Party Affiliation

#23

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 2nd, 2012

Mars attacks. Nah, they wouldn't dare cuz we Canucks are so nice.

Colpy

Conservative

#24

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

1) Thx for the politeness.

2) Russia and China do not invade other countries. (not taking into account countries in their region of the world) America/Britain/France are the nations that like to invade.

.

WOW!

I have a little advice for you....buy a history book.

Invaded by China since 1945: Tibet, Vietnam, Korea.
Threatened by China: Various islands in the South China Sea, Taiwan, Japan.

Invaded by the USSR since 1945: Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan.
Invaded by Russia since 1989: Georgia. Chechnya.
Russia is becoming increasingly belligerent.

Invaded by North Korea since 1945: South Korea
Canada's largest war since the Second World War.

Neither the United States nor Britain have EVER invaded anyone on the second Tuesday of the week. Which is about as relevant as your lovely disclaimer "not taking into account countries in their region of the world"

In a shrinking world, the battles for our defense don't often take place in our front yard, more often they are down the street. We NEED to be able to respond with our allies.

wulfie68

No Party Affiliation

#25

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

As for North Korea, are you kidding me? Yes, they build missiles that can hit America, but that is about it. North Korea keeps to itself.

They want to build missiles that can hit North America; so far their ability has been limited to hitting targets in and around the Sea of Japan. Now I suppose that is just further justification to the Ostrich Mind Set but that type of aggresiveness is worthy of vigilance.

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

Now lets say China invaded Canada. What do you think will happen?

We'd want to fight them in Alaska with the Americans: they'd never be able to pull a full Pacific crossing given the disparity in naval power, and bottling them up in hostile terrain would be the most effective tactic.

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

We have a piss ant military force. The boy scouts of America could take us one.

Sure we have a small military: thats just what Liberals of the past couple decades have wanted. I do love the way you categorize those Canadians who do/have wanted to serve as "pissant"... its similar to the way I view your chances of gaining elected office in a constituency with a collective IQ larger than their shoe size...

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

If Canada should have a military force, we are faced with 3 options:

1) Spend $100 billion annually on our military. Which would be just over 1/3rd of our budget. We spend $23 billion currently, (Global National said $20) so an increase of $77-80 billion.

2) Build nuclear weapons. Sure, we signed the NPT, but who cares, right?

3) Secretly develop cold fusion and laser cannon technology, and make them look like satellites, then launch them into space. Sure, it goes against the international agreement not to weaponize space, but it's going to happen anyways, right?

Or we could just utilize our existing network of alliances and treaties to bear some figurative brunt in our calculations...

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

Besides... if China or Russia was to invade, what do you think the US would do?

If it makes you feel any better, I could allow the US Navy & Air Force over Canadian territory.

If Canada were invaded, the US would be here, aiding us, in a heartbeat: if not for love of our citizenry (which many simply do not deserve), out of fear for the security of the own energy supply and border integrity with a belligerent power occupying their doorstep.

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

I do not consider the Coast Guard, the Canadian Navy.

Again you show your unfittness for elected office, as you are unable/unwilling to become fully conversant on the issues you want to become involved in. The Coast Guard is a part of the Armed Forces, whether you "consider" it to be so or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

Many countries right now, are trying to make their point why they own the Arctic. The Arctic doesn't belong to any nation, and should be international territory. Nations only want it, for the oil, and we can't risk an oil leak in the Arctic.

Well, I guess if you stance is to concede and relinquish our claims, thats up to you. Its not something I would support but I do have to wonder: if you give up on Arctic sovereignty, how would stop other nations who still claim it from producing oil and possibly having a leak?

Quote: Originally Posted by NewGlobalOrder

No nation fears the Canadian military as is.

Assuming you're correct, so? Its to protect our interests, serve our needs, not necessarily engender fear in others.

[QUOTE=NewGlobalOrder;1542278As for "transnational organizations" are you speaking of terrorist groups? CSIS has a budget of $300-500 million, if I recall correctly. I want to add $1 billion to their annual budget.[/QUOTE]

You might cover the stationary supplies...

SLM

No Party Affiliation

#26

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

WOW!

I have a little advice for you....buy a history book.

I agree that's good advice however, just a heads up here, he doesn't like to read 'long' things. Just FYI,

captain morgan

Bloc Québécois

#27

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

I agree that's good advice however, just a heads up here, he doesn't like to read 'long' things. Just FYI,

There's bound to be a pop-up book somewhere that focuses on history... Maybe a few cookies and warm milk as bait and buddy may go through the relevant inputs.

DurkaDurka

No Party Affiliation

#28

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

This guys is nuts.... "North Korea keeps to it self". Besides blowing up South Korean ships and launching missiles over Japan when they decide to have a temper tantrum?

captain morgan

Bloc Québécois

#29

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

Considering that buddy expects that 1/3 of the entire population will be depending of state housing, it's no big surprise that he has this flight of fancy that N.Korea are the peace-keepers of the world.

jjaycee98

Conservative

#30

Re: Defence Reform

Feb 3rd, 2012

I have a little advice for you....buy a history book.

Invaded by China since 1945: Tibet, Vietnam, Korea.
Threatened by China: Various islands in the South China Sea, Taiwan, Japan.

Also, remember the US airliner with families, business people and holiday folks on board that was shot out of the sky by China-just strayed off course a bit. That was only about 18 years ago.

Invaded by the USSR since 1945: Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan.
Invaded by Russia since 1989: Georgia. Chechnya.
Russia is becoming increasingly belligerent.

We know that Russian subs have been checking out the Polar Ice. They have already voiced their claim to the Arctic slope.

Invaded by North Korea since 1945: South Korea
Canada's largest war since the Second World War.

Neither the United States nor Britain have EVER invaded anyone on the second Tuesday of the week. Which is about as relevant as your lovely disclaimer "not taking into account countries in their region of the world"

Maybe not; but our friends in the US sent an ice breaker through, crossing what Canada claims as Sovieryn Shore line with the claim that the off shore did not belong to Canada.

In a shrinking world, the battles for our defense don't often take place in our front yard, more often they are down the street. We NEED to be able to respond with our allies.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it is what a country wants that determines who their friends are.

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