Another view from Quebec

[willqccan]

That's it, I quit worrying about politics.

Here in Quebec, you might think we're the ones slowing you with our french language and french way of thinking. We didn't choose to be like that, it's just the way history happened. The fact is, here we still (since 1760) struggle between 2 patriotisms, and it's very exhausting, especially for someone that's zero patriotic like me.

Quebec's point of view is seperated in 2 and we can't be focused if we're not as a whole, so we always come back to the start, not accomplishing much. When the McLean magazine's front cover said: "Quebec, the most corrupted province.", I understood why and I kind of agreed. So, for now, I'd rather go with the flow and accept that we remain a province (it's better than to be in a country full of corruption).

It's always the same question: is Quebec a different culture than the rest of Canada or is it the same? The Canada PM is always talking about a "united Canada", and I see a reference to Quebec here. But is he really honest with us, or with himself at all? I don't think so.

I was raised in a good family with a perspective of sovereignty, but in a very diplomatic way, with words and good ideas, as I think we (all of us), democratic people express ourselves. At first, in my naive youth, I saw Canadians as "the bad guys", the people exploiting us as big companies do with cheap labor. I think it might have been true at some time in the past, but not anymore. Many things changed, the participation of Quebec in the last election being an example, our french-speaking soldiers of the army fighting alongside the english-speaking ones another.

So with time I finally told mysel that Canada had become a great country, except I still don't feel I'm anything more than 50% Canadian.
My wish would be that eiter Quebec sees itself completely as part of the Canada, OR that it becomes a country, then only I think that everybody would be happy. Still, I don't think that Quebec's culture can be denied, or destroyed just like a gun registry, hehehe.

I read some of your posts, you seem concerned about your country and that's good. For myself, I just want to stop worrying about all that, it's just too much stress. I know many of you probably strongly disagree with this post, still I'm opened to your reactions. (sorry for my medium english-writing skill)

Peace.

 

[Goober]

That's it, I quit worrying about politics.

Here in Quebec, you might think we're the ones slowing you with our french language and french way of thinking. We didn't choose to be like that, it's just the way history happened. The fact is, here we still (since 1760) struggle between 2 patriotisms, and it's very exhausting, especially for someone that's zero patriotic like me.

Quebec's point of view is seperated in 2 and we can't be focused if we're not as a whole, so we always come back to the start, not accomplishing much. When the McLean magazine's front cover said: "Quebec, the most corrupted province.", I understood why and I kind of agreed. So, for now, I'd rather go with the flow and accept that we remain a province (it's better than to be in a country full of corruption).

It's always the same question: is Quebec a different culture than the rest of Canada or is it the same? The Canada PM is always talking about a "united Canada", and I see a reference to Quebec here. But is he really honest with us, or with himself at all? I don't think so.

I was raised in a good family with a perspective of sovereignty, but in a very diplomatic way, with words and good ideas, as I think we (all of us), democratic people express ourselves. At first, in my naive youth, I saw Canadians as "the bad guys", the people exploiting us as big companies do with cheap labor. I think it might have been true at some time in the past, but not anymore. Many things changed, the participation of Quebec in the last election being an example, our french-speaking soldiers of the army fighting alongside the english-speaking ones another.

So with time I finally told mysel that Canada had become a great country, except I still don't feel I'm anything more than 50% Canadian.
My wish would be that eiter Quebec sees itself completely as part of the Canada, OR that it becomes a country, then only I think that everybody would be happy. Still, I don't think that Quebec's culture can be denied, or destroyed just like a gun registry, hehehe.

I read some of your posts, you seem concerned about your country and that's good. For myself, I just want to stop worrying about all that, it's just too much stress. I know many of you probably strongly disagree with this post, still I'm opened to your reactions. (sorry for my medium english-writing skill)

Peace.

Nothing wrong with your english. Heck of a lot better than my french. And the points you made were easily understood. A good post.

 

[ironsides]

I agree with Goober, good post.

 

[WLDB]

I agree with the OP. We've been worrying about the French/English divide since before confederation. I doubt it will stop anytime soon. I myself am not particularly worried about it right now.

 

[damngrumpy]

There is sometimes a difference between what one thinks and what one feels.
Quebec set out decades ago to plan for the future while the rest of the country
chose to fill potholes and build bridges. By that I mean, Quebec understood the
concept of a social society. They took the funds allotted to them and actually
put those funds into pensions, childcare, medicare and other programs that were
to the betterment of the citizens. In the rest of Canada we in fact used the money
we got for infrastructure projects. Now of course resources are in short supply
and in English Canada we don't have the money to continue supporting these
programs at the same level. In Quebec they invested the money in the future and
now the interest money is easing the problem.
What has happened is, in Quebec there is a much deeper social conscience and
that sets people apart in their method of thinking. The citizens of Quebec also
speak a different language and they have some different customs and closer family
ties. This in turn leads to isolation even if it is perception rather than fact. I have
a Brother in Law from Quebec, and I understand a little but not being from Quebec
I don't fully understand. However, I feel a Canadian can be both. I suppose I
have a different view in that my family came from Cape Breton where the people
also felt isolated and different from mainstream Canada and in some cases still do.
There is also a strong sense of family or the term Clannish often mentioned.
While one has strong regional roots, ones can also feel the strong sense of nationhood.
In fact by opting in we as citizens can add to the vision of country and yet preserve
their heritage within the framework that makes up Canada

 

[L Gilbert]

There is sometimes a difference between what one thinks and what one feels.
Quebec set out decades ago to plan for the future while the rest of the country
chose to fill potholes and build bridges. By that I mean, Quebec understood the
concept of a social society. They took the funds allotted to them and actually
put those funds into pensions, childcare, medicare and other programs that were
to the betterment of the citizens. In the rest of Canada we in fact used the money
we got for infrastructure projects. Now of course resources are in short supply
and in English Canada we don't have the money to continue supporting these
programs at the same level. In Quebec they invested the money in the future and
now the interest money is easing the problem.
What has happened is, in Quebec there is a much deeper social conscience and
that sets people apart in their method of thinking. The citizens of Quebec also
speak a different language and they have some different customs and closer family
ties. This in turn leads to isolation even if it is perception rather than fact. I have
a Brother in Law from Quebec, and I understand a little but not being from Quebec
I don't fully understand. However, I feel a Canadian can be both. I suppose I
have a different view in that my family came from Cape Breton where the people
also felt isolated and different from mainstream Canada and in some cases still do.
There is also a strong sense of family or the term Clannish often mentioned.
While one has strong regional roots, ones can also feel the strong sense of nationhood.
In fact by opting in we as citizens can add to the vision of country and yet preserve
their heritage within the framework that makes up Canada

The biggest speed bumps to that are ignorance and politics.

 

[ironsides]

Canadians can be both French and English, but Canada cannot be both. A Free French Quebec is a dream that has come and gone. I could just see the problems here in the U.S. if the French, Mexicans, Spanish, Native Americans all decided they wanted a free and independent state from the U.S.. For the most part they all have assimilated into us forming the Great Nation we now have become. Our heritage is just that a part of us, it is partially what makes us what we are today. It is time to move on to what we can become in the future.

 

[wulfie68]

It's always the same question: is Quebec a different culture than the rest of Canada or is it the same?

I think this statement typifies a lot of the attempts to frame the "sovereignty issue" coming from Quebecers, as I have seen it, but it is fundamentally flawed, as it makes an assumption that the "rest of Canada" is a cultural monolith, which it very much is not. New Brunswick is (according to StatsCan) the only truly bi-lingual province which distinguishes it in its own right; the other 8 provinces may share English as the primary language but in some cases, little else. Each province has its own cultural roots and influences that have defined the societies existing therein. There are pretty significant differences between the Maritimes and Ontario (I'm willing to bet there are differences between the Maritime provinces themselves but I haven't spent any time there and hesitant to comment much on them, as they are perceptions from a distance). There are significant differences between Northern and Southern Ontario. There are more differences when you look at the Prairies and BC.

The reality is that if Canadians want to keep one united country, unifying factors have to be identified and agreed upon, and in some cases concessions will have to be made. However, speaking as an Albertan, after seeing the concessions made to Quebec over the past couple decades, I don't think they deserve any more... and a great many people in my province feel the same.

 

[willqccan]

However, speaking as an Albertan, after seeing the concessions made to Quebec over the past couple decades, I don't think they deserve any more... and a great many people in my province feel the same.

I agree with you, everybody need to do their part and focus on reality and right now we're a province like any other.

 

[L Gilbert]

I think this statement typifies a lot of the attempts to frame the "sovereignty issue" coming from Quebecers, as I have seen it, but it is fundamentally flawed, as it makes an assumption that the "rest of Canada" is a cultural monolith, which it very much is not. New Brunswick is (according to StatsCan) the only truly bi-lingual province which distinguishes it in its own right; the other 8 provinces may share English as the primary language but in some cases, little else.

HAH! Statscan has never met Newfies then. Two languages in Newfieland: Newfie and English. Sometimes one needs an interpreter to understand what's being said. lol

Anyway, I don't care what languages people speak. People are people. What annoys me is the idea that Quebec needs special laws *(some being pretty extreme) so the language of some of its people don't lose their language. Well, The Cajuns haven't lost theirs, NBwickers haven't lost theirs, and there are 4 distinct languages in a couple countries in Europe and no-one fears losing those.
In BC, the ratio of French-speakers (both bilingual and monolingual) to the rest of the population is about 2%. We have more Chinese speakers, more Russian speakers, and probably more German and Hindi speakers than 2% yet we don't get labels, signs, etc. in those languages.
The problems that arise from language differences stem directly from politics. Most politics is irrational.

Good to see you here at CC, willqccan, in any case. The more the merrier.

 

[willqccan]

A Free French Quebec is a dream that has come and gone.

I don't agree. When you live here, you can still feel that a big part of the population would still want it to happen. You can disagree, but you can't deny it. The difference between here and the U.S.A. is that the french-speaking people don't need to regroup together to separate, they are ALREADY together because the French created their colonies on the east coast, while the English spread more to the west.

I agree that your nation is a great one and your pride is inspiring. Also, what happened in the arabic countries and the missions of our armies brought us probably closer than at any other time in history. But did it bring us together as Canadians and Americans, or as Canadians, Americans and "Quebecers"? I think it makes a big difference.

I'm not trying to spam sovereignty thoughts to anyone here and I'm not affiliated with any pro-Quebec group, but the everyday life here is living in this kind of confusion and I'm just trying to deal with it as any good citizen would do.

I think we've been too soft with our regulations in Quebec and in Canada. We should make it clear: "Quebec as a country? Ok, go." or "Quebec stays as a province: ok, go, english-speaking parliaments and education reforms."
Honestly, I don't care about one or the other, as long as we stop changing our minds.

 

[ironsides]

I know what you said is true, and agree with you. Something should be done one way or another, it is tearing Canada apart in the long term.

 

[L Gilbert]

Oh, I think Canada will weather this issue.

 

[WLDB]

Oh, I think Canada will weather this issue.

Probably. Its been through much worse.

 

[willqccan]

Good to see you here at CC, willqccan, in any case. :icon_smile: The more the merrier.

Thanks by the way, I'm glad to be here. I read some threads and you're having interesting debates, I'll stick around.

 

[taxslave]

Canadians can be both French and English, but Canada cannot be both. A Free French Quebec is a dream that has come and gone. I could just see the problems here in the U.S. if the French, Mexicans, Spanish, Native Americans all decided they wanted a free and independent state from the U.S.. For the most part they all have assimilated into us forming the Great Nation we now have become. Our heritage is just that a part of us, it is partially what makes us what we are today. It is time to move on to what we can become in the future.

I think this is where our countries differ and why the US does not have so much of a cultural problem. The US has always been a "melting pot" society where newcomers are expected to more or less abandon the cultures of where they came from and become "American". Here in Canada we had a bast ard named Trudeau that decided in a bid to garner votes in Quebec declare us a multi cultural society where every one is a hyphenated Canadian with 2 official languages except in Quebec which has one. Now it is all good to know your roots but extremely difficult to promote a "Canadian" identity when everyone is encouraged to bring their customs and baggage along.
I am not a particularly strong federalist or perhaps more accurately I am anti centralist . My concerns are Vancouver Island, B.C., Canada, rest of the world. It wouldn't bother me if Canada became much like the EU only without all the useless bureaucracy with strong provincial governments and a much weaker federal government.

 

[willqccan]

I found this on wikipedia and I think it covers the whole idea and makes a lot of sense. It comes from a canadian journalist I like that you probably know if you like politics, Chantal Hebert:

« The political project that's having a hard time in Quebec is not sovereignty, but the tenacious dream of an honorable accodomation inside the federal constitution. » (Le Devoir, jan 9th, 2006)

Like what you said wulfie68, I think the concessions have been made and we're all waiting on what's going to happen, which is apparently not the separation of Quebec. When I look at it from the outside, I feel like the province of Quebec is like an excited teenager still doing the same mistakes over and over and Canada, the parent that's supporting its child.

* sorry, «supporting» is not the correct translation of what I want to say, I meant «endure» (wich is «supporter» in french, confusing >.<)

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Keeping with Canadian tradition, I think that this thread should be in Anglais/Francais or is that Francais/Anglais

Cambell Soup? Soupe Cambell?

 

[willqccan]

@Retired_Can_Soldier
no, I'm the minority on this site so I'm the one adjusting

 

[In Between Man]

So with time I finally told mysel that Canada had become a great country, except I still don't feel I'm anything more than 50% Canadian. My wish would be that eiter Quebec sees itself completely as part of the Canada, OR that it becomes a country...

Because Canada pledges allegiance to the English monarchy, I don't blame you for feeling no more than 50% Canadian. I believe Canada will be stronger as a nation if we put the sovereignty issue behind us and just let Quebec leave. Uncertainty about the issue forever hanging over our heads makes our nation look weak. Let them go!