Harper Colleague says Vote Subsidy Axe is ploy to kill Liberals??

mentalfloss

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First he routed Liberals – and now Harper hopes to bankrupt them


Stephen Harper is expected to move quickly to kill the per-vote taxpayer subsidies to political parties in an effort to kill the Liberal Party of Canada, according to a former colleague of the Prime Minister.

“Ever since his days at the [National Citizens Coalition], Stephen talked about eliminating the Liberals as a political force in Canada,” former NCC executive Gerry Nicholls said. “This was both for personal and tactical reasons. He didn’t like Liberals – he always viewed them as biased against Alberta.”

Mr. Flaherty said the extra savings to erase deficit in 2014-15 won't be booked until 2012 budget. This year’s plan, he said, will include a provision for Quebec HST compensation and phasing out of per-vote subsidies “as set out in the platform” Prime Minister Stephen Harper campaigned on killing the taxpayer stipend for political parties, but said he would only attempt the move if he won a majority government.

The Conservative platform noted that the $2-per-vote annual subsidy for political parties is currently a $27.4-million expense for the federal government. The platform promised to phase this out gradually over four years.

In addition, Mr. Nicholls told The Globe the Prime Minister,who had worked at the NCC between his stints in the House of Commons, also believed a two-party system “where it was the socialist NDP vs. free market Conservative, would be an advantage for the Tories.”

It appears as if his dreams are about to come true. The Liberals are down to just 34 seats and the infighting has begun; the Bloc Québécois is pretty much gone; and the NDP is the Official Opposition.


The Prime Minister has made no secret of his plans to get rid of the $2 per vote subsidy. During the campaign, he blamed frequency of elections on the taxpayer subsidy, which allows political parties to get “enormous cheques” whether “they raise any money or not.”

“The war chests are always full for another campaign,” he said on the hustings. “You lose one; immediately in come the cheques and you are ready for another one even if you didn’t raise a dime.”
Indeed, the separatist Bloc, although it never ran a national campaign, received more than $2.8-million every year after the 2008 election. Even though it won only four seats in the May 2 campaign, it garnered nearly 900,000 votes –and so will receive $1.8-million in subsidies.

Mr. Nicholls, who has written multiple articles on the subject, agrees with the Prime Minister about eliminating the subsidy as long as it for the right reasons. The taxpayer-funded top up, he said, “is a waste of tax dollars and wrong on principle – Canadians should not be forced to subsidize political parties.”

However Mr. Nicholls would prefer if the government also scrapped the contribution limit. Since the subsidy was introduced in 2004, there have been limits on how much individual Canadians can donate. The cap currently sits at $1,200 per person, per year.

“If he scrapped the contribution limit along with the subsidy, the Liberals and other opposition parties would at least have a fighting chance. They could make up for the lost subsidy through aggressive fundraising,” he said.

More than that, Mr. Nicholls believes that keeping the contribution limit will make it “nearly impossible” for new parties to form.

That’s bad for democracy,” he said. “It could also open the door for some future government to impose contribution limits on advocacy organizations, like the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.”

Still, his concern “centres on the PM’s motivation”, he said. “I fear he isn’t approaching the question based on what’s right or what’s fair or in the name of conservative principle.”

Per-vote subsidy on chopping block in Flaherty’s June 6 budget - The Globe and Mail


This is getting really scary. If the only choice Canadians have is between Conservatives or NDP, I'm worried our democracy will become almost as irrelevant as U.S. politics.

We should not be supporting a two party system.
 
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DurkaDurka

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I'm all for scrapping the subsidy, political parties should sink or swim on their own ability to raise funds for their activities, I agree that contributions limits should be raised though.
 

petros

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Keep contribution level it is where and eliminate the $1.85 per vote funding.

If you can't get elected on merit or a platform then why are you in politics and what makes you think you are better?

Money for attack ads belitting Canadian's intelligence aren't something I'm willing to pay for.
 

captain morgan

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The (former) Bloc raised the vast majority of their cash from this subsidy and it's not exactly a secret that Layton ran no-body candidates in order to fatten their purse as well; he just never dreamed that they'd actually win those seats.
 

mentalfloss

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Keep contribution level it is where and eliminate the $1.85 per vote funding.

If you can't get elected on merit or a platform then why are you in politics and what makes you think you are better?

Money for attack ads belitting Canadian's intelligence aren't something I'm willing to pay for.

Firstly, this should reinforce the point that right now, it's not the 'funding' that is the problem. Attack ads could exist, regardless of where the funding comes from. What our government does with the subsidies is the problem, and so changing the funding, doesn't change what they do with that money.

Secondly, now that we're turning political parties into privately funding entities, funding will become a problem because the richest get to influence the vote. And worse yet, if I'm not mistaken, we'll be rewarding tycoon supporters with a 75% tax rebate that come out of the pockets of all Canadians...

...it's the tax rebates on political donations that need to be reformed. Currently, donors are eligible for a 75 per cent tax rebate on donations of up to $400, and approximately 50 per cent back on donations between $400 and $1,100. She pointed out that while the per vote subsidy reflects voter choice, tax rebates on donations favour those who can afford to contribute to candidates and parties.

"When someone makes a donation to a political party and receives 75 per cent back on that donation out of taxpayer funds, those funds used as a rebate to the donor are not reflective of any voter choice,"
Tory majority puts per-vote party financing in jeopardy, move could cripple opposition parties | The Hill Times - Canada's Politics and Government Newsweekly

Politics is not corporatism.
The wealthiest should not be influencing the vote.

The (former) Bloc raised the vast majority of their cash from this subsidy and it's not exactly a secret that Layton ran no-body candidates in order to fatten their purse as well; he just never dreamed that they'd actually win those seats.

Well the Bloc rightly got ousted as a result of their actions - proving that it isn't the funding that is the problem. It's what the party does with that money.
 

cranky

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I actually have mixed feelings on this one. I don't feel that the tax payer subsidy should be used to run election campaigns, as you are funding a campaign not on it's present support but on it's past support.

However, I think it would be good if all of the parties had to run their operating budget solely on tax payer money, because parties like the liberals have never been good at receiving small contributions which means that they spend way too much time in back rooms working out big deals for big contributions.
 

captain morgan

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Secondly, now that we're turning political parties into privately funding entities, funding will become a problem because the richest get to influence the vote. And worse yet, if I'm not mistaken, we'll be rewarding tycoon supporters with tax rebates that come out of the pockets of all Canadians.

You can make the very same argument in vilifying lobby groups, charities, interest groups or cultural groups.
 

petros

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Firstly, this should reinforce the point that right now, it's not the 'funding' that is the problem. Attack ads could exist, regardless of where the funding comes from. What our government does with the subsidies is the problem, and so changing the funding, doesn't change what they do with that money.
We'd most certainly see far less of them (attack ads) if they are funded on their own dime and not mine or yours.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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You can make the very same argument in vilifying lobby groups, charities, interest groups or cultural groups.

Where it isn't clear that the party receiving the funding could cause a net benefit to society or is concerned with the well-being of others, private funding should always be kept on a tight leash.

Especially in the political process where a small percentage of high paying donors could influence the actions of government, this is especially worrisome.

At least with the $2 vote per subsidy, you can say, "it's my fault for supporting that party", along with everyone else who voted for them. With the privatization of this funding, that gets thrown out the window and the government won't act on your vote - they'll act on who the highest bidders are.

They'll know who and where the most lucrative donations come from and they will target this subset of people for the vote during the next election.

We'd most certainly see far less of them (attack ads) if they are funded on their own dime and not mine or yours.

Really?

So, if they receive more in private funding rather than public funding, you believe they'll tone down the attack ads? I'm not sure how that follows.
 
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captain morgan

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Where it isn't clear that the party receiving the funding could cause a net benefit to society or is concerned with the well-being of others, private funding should always be kept on a tight leash.

So, if they receive more in private funding rather than public funding, you believe they'll tone down the attack ads? I'm not sure how that follows.

It's a catch-22 mentalfloss.... A party can appeal to the lowest common denominator in promising all kinds of free lunch at the expense of a demographic, industrial sector or geographical discrimination.// Consider all of the graft that Quebec has received over the years in the form of direct cash injection, corporate sponsorship, promises to build hockey arenas, etc..

Those actions did nothing for any communities outside Quebec.... You see my point?
 

petros

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Harper was a Liberal who switched sides when he became angry with Trudeau's NEP. I wonder if someone disagreed with him?
His dad who worked for Imperial Oil who got his son Steve a job with Imperial Oil. Do you think that he just might be backed by Imperial Oil?
 

mentalfloss

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It's a catch-22 mentalfloss.... A party can appeal to the lowest common denominator in promising all kinds of free lunch at the expense of a demographic, industrial sector or geographical discrimination.// Consider all of the graft that Quebec has received over the years in the form of direct cash injection, corporate sponsorship, promises to build hockey arenas, etc..

Those actions did nothing for any communities outside Quebec.... You see my point?

I understand that.

But that's still more democratic as it was clearly the fault of the Bloc voters who propped up the Bloc to their status. Once voters recognized this, they rebelled and voted for another party.

The Bloc could have used that money in a much smarter fashion and they would still be in power now.

That's democracy.
 

TenPenny

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Secondly, now that we're turning political parties into privately funding entities, funding will become a problem because the richest get to influence the vote. And worse yet, if I'm not mistaken, we'll be rewarding tycoon supporters with a 75% tax rebate that come out of the pockets of all Canadians...

But I understand that there is a personal donation limit of $1200 or so, and no corporate or union donations are allowed.

So how could tycoon supporters be rewarded more than anyone else?
 

petros

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But I understand that there is a personal donation limit of $1200 or so, and no corporate or union donations are allowed.

So how could tycoon supporters be rewarded more than anyone else?
Pick a name out of the phone book or make one up and donate in their name. 10 phony people is an easy untraceable $12K.
 

mentalfloss

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So how could tycoon supporters be rewarded more than anyone else?

Sorry, I'm not using "tycoon" in the strictest sense.

Essentially, even a $1,200.00 donation with a 50% rebate ($600.00) is a pretty hefty sum of money for the average supporter. And with this donation ultimately being the support for a party's bottom line, what we are now saying is three things:

1.) The vote of paying supporters is 'worth more' than other voters
2.) All taxpayers will be rewarding these supporters out of their own pocket
3.) Do you care about the direction of this country? Then you have to pay significantly for it. And for some people this is a sacrifice, while for others, it's a fart in the wind.

You see where democracy - which is supposed to allow for equal support across all voters - is lost here?

And if the Libs can't get back on their feet we'll all be pigeonholed into two puppets:

Are you right?

or

Are you left?
 

petros

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It's tax credit not a rebate. If you don't make enough to use that credit, it is useless.

But how could you get a tax rebate for a donation in someone else"s name?
You don't you just get to put more into the party illegally. That's a credit all in it's self.