Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Socrates the Greek

#1Apr 29th, 2010

Are Canadian values facing an evolution , because of political correctness gone to far.
Human rights are a must.

Some people who come to Canada FOR A BETTER LIFE expect Canada to change for them rather then them adapting to a new way of life.

Immigrants often come to Canada and have very little knowledge of Canadian culture, there is no program in place to insure and help these people show respect and understanding for a people who have been here before them.
Often Immigrants start their own communities and demand from Canada to allow them to change the street names to a foreign language not understood by Canadian English speaking people.
Canada must exercise caution in that regard, if this continues Canadian Anglo-Saxons and Francophone’s may find them self’s unable to protect the Canadian heritage and culture.
Brittan an France are two good examples of Multiculturalism gone the wrong way.

YukonJack

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

I am an immigrant. I came more than 50 years ago. When I arrived I was happy just to be here. From that day until I retired I was unemployed less than six months. I never demanded any rights. I worked as hard as I could. I never demanded a course in a "English as Second Language" like the recent immigrants do. I never demanded that my children should be educated in my mother tongue at tax-payers' expense, like recent immigrnts do. When I came there was no Charter of Rights, but there was an un-written charter of responsibilities and obligations, which I knew, or at least sensed, unlike recent immigrants. I worked my way up, never demanded an instant raise like recent immigrants do.

But then, I was not a visible - although to this very day a very AUDIBLE - minority.

Praxius

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism?

Last I checked, Canadian Values are about Multiculturalism.

It wasn't just English and French who colonized North America and formed what we now know as Canada..... Natives, Spanish, Dutch, German, Japanese, Chinese, Africans.... and many many more cultures and nations came to this land and helped form what it is today.

The only reason why our "Culture" would have more relation to English and French is because for the longest time until about this past century, very few minorities had a voice, or a say in what happened in this country..... only white males, english and french were allowed to have the most say in what happened in this nation..... so to suggest we suddenly snap back to how things were where white men were the only ones who had a say, is the wrong approach.

I agree, new immigrants should require courses or something to educate them in the existing ways of life here in this country, but at the same time, our government can not just sit back and expect immigrants to educate themselves all on their own and fit right in without any question. Our Government should be ensuring potential immigrants meet specific guidelines.

Otherwise, if our government allows immigrants and refuges to come into our country as they are with no understanding of what is required of them and they then become legit Canadian Citizens, neither you, I or the government have any right to dictate what they can or can not have a say in, because they are now just as much a Canadian Citizen as you and I.

Which means if they now want to change the name of a street to something else.... they'd have every right to seek out that request, just like I have every right to request a street name be changed to "Poopy Badadooka Ave."

My only real concern is when new refuges and immigrants come into this country and have no idea about the existing rights and laws that apply to us as well as them and are just set loose to do as they please with total ignorance.

If they break the law in some way.... punish them, educate them, etc.... but if they don't break any laws, become legit citizens of this nation like everyone else... then they have every right to have a say in the direction this country goes, they have a right to challenge laws and even request them being changed.... this is their right, which all of us have.

That doesn't mean they will succeed in changing anything, but they have the right to try and for people to get pissy over someone trying to change something in our way of life and are doing it the right way.... to me, that's not only ignorant on their part, but clearly shows that they don't believe in the way of life they claim to uphold and think they're defending.

AnnaG

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

Are Canadian values facing an evolution , because of political correctness gone to far.
Human rights are a must.

Some people who come to Canada FOR A BETTER LIFE expect Canada to change for them rather then them adapting to a new way of life.

Immigrants often come to Canada and have very little knowledge of Canadian culture, there is no program in place to insure and help these people show respect and understanding for a people who have been here before them.
Often Immigrants start their own communities and demand from Canada to allow them to change the street names to a foreign language not understood by Canadian English speaking people.
Canada must exercise caution in that regard, if this continues Canadian Anglo-Saxons and Francophone’s may find them self’s unable to protect the Canadian heritage and culture.
Brittan an France are two good examples of Multiculturalism gone the wrong way.

Canada accepts that people have different cultures. Canada accepts people into its population people from different cultures. Canadians value the idea of accepting other people regardless of religion, height, language, etc. Accepting people as they are is a noble Canadian effort and as long as no-one is endangered because of it, we should accept people as they are and quit whining about it. It's too late to become un-multicultural.

Socrates the Greek

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Hey no one is talking about doing anything to Multiculturalism, we are talking about some needed education which is not in place currently, to educate new immigrants about the ways and laws of this land. Religion is not part of this discussion, Canada is a great chunk of land with allot to offer, newcomers ignorant to the ways and laws makes a bad societal chemistry. England and France are a living example.
this is not whining, this is a serious problem.

AnnaG

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

Hey no one is talking about doing anything to Multiculturalism, we are talking about some needed education which is not in place currently, to educate new immigrants about the ways and laws of this land. Religion is not part of this discussion, Canada is a great chunk of land with allot to offer, newcomers ignorant to the ways and laws makes a bad societal chemistry. England and France are a living example.
this is not whining, this is a serious problem.

You want to educate these foreigners to become like the rest of us, right?

YukonJack

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

I have problems with multi-culturalism when it costs me money.

I NEVER wanted the government to fund my heritage, and those who do, or accept government funds to do so are worthless freeloaders.

Multi-culturalism is nothing but encouraging hyphenated Canadianism. Cherish your heritage at home, at your own expense.

AnnaG

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

I have problems with multi-culturalism when it costs me money.

I NEVER wanted the government to fund my heritage, and those who do, or accept government funds to do so are worthless freeloaders.

Multi-culturalism is nothing but encouraging hyphenated Canadianism. Cherish your heritage at home, at your own expense.

It isn't ok to cater to other Canadian cultures, but it is ok to cater to English and French speaking Canadians. As long as you become like the rest of us, you can be yourself. I see. We should be the same as long as it is English-speaking, white, same religion, same gender, etc.

EagleSmack

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

Are Canadian values facing an evolution , because of political correctness gone to far.
Human rights are a must.

Some people who come to Canada FOR A BETTER LIFE expect Canada to change for them rather then them adapting to a new way of life.

Immigrants often come to Canada and have very little knowledge of Canadian culture, there is no program in place to insure and help these people show respect and understanding for a people who have been here before them.
Often Immigrants start their own communities and demand from Canada to allow them to change the street names to a foreign language not understood by Canadian English speaking people.
Canada must exercise caution in that regard, if this continues Canadian Anglo-Saxons and Francophone’s may find them self’s unable to protect the Canadian heritage and culture.
Brittan an France are two good examples of Multiculturalism gone the wrong way.

You must shed Canadian values and culture to be more welcoming.

ironsides

#10

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

You are starting to experience what has been going on in the U.S. for years and so far we do not have a complete solution and probably won't have till all barriers go down and we all become one people of the world (no more countries, just Earthlings). Did I just say that.

Beam me up Scotty.

EagleSmack

#11

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

It isn't ok to cater to other Canadian cultures, but it is ok to cater to English and French speaking Canadians. As long as you become like the rest of us, you can be yourself. I see. We should be the same as long as it is English-speaking, white, same religion, same gender, etc.

Well some idiots would call that racism.

lone wolf

#12

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

It isn't ok to cater to other Canadian cultures, but it is ok to cater to English and French speaking Canadians. As long as you become like the rest of us, you can be yourself. I see. We should be the same as long as it is English-speaking, white, same religion, same gender, etc.

Whoa there.... It hasn't been politically correct to be English Canadian since the early seventies. We lost the Maple Leaf Forever because it was too English. Oh Canada changed to suit the times. Our schools switched from printed-in-England texts to those bought cheaper from the States long ago - neither of which paid more than cursory attention to matters specifically Canadian.

Long before that, Cultures from whom we should have learned long ago were shamed into the non-existence of second-class status.

What really IS the rest of us?

Socrates the Greek

#13

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

You must shed Canadian values and culture to be more welcoming.

Canada is a welcoming country, the problem is that politics dictate the pool of multiculturalism. In the name of votes we except deceptive intentions.

gopher

#14

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

"Canadian Values are about Multiculturalism."

Really?

MarceTou

#15

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 29th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

I have problems with multi-culturalism when it costs me money.

I NEVER wanted the government to fund my heritage, and those who do, or accept government funds to do so are worthless freeloaders.

Multi-culturalism is nothing but encouraging hyphenated Canadianism. Cherish your heritage at home, at your own expense.

I totally agree with opinions on the topic. I can talk for years about what I hate and like about our immigration system, but I think I'll drop it for the sake of my own sanity.
Instead I'll just say "I'm with him" for whatever you've written lol

Icarus27k

#16

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

It's so very hard for me to see immigration as "us versus them". It's hard for me to relate

china

#17

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

[quote]

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

I am an immigrant. I came more than 50 years ago. When I arrived I was happy just to be here. From that day until I retired I was unemployed less than six months. I never demanded any rights. I worked as hard as I could. I never demanded a course in a "English as Second Language" like the recent immigrants do. I never demanded that my children should be educated in my mother tongue at tax-payers' expense, like recent immigrnts do. When I came there was no Charter of Rights, but there was an un-written charter of responsibilities and obligations, which I knew, or at least sensed, unlike recent immigrants. I worked my way up, never demanded an instant raise like recent immigrants do.

Me too,Yukon Jack.It burns me when I hear the "real Canadians" complain about the immigrats .Canada was built by immigrants and still is Canada and because of immigrants willbeCanada.

An immigrant coming home .

Dessolution

#18

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

My mom spend 3 months, hounding the phone for a job every day while taking care of my brother and sister (and me since I was about 11) at the same time who were just tiny children at the time. My dad the same. We lived in a tiny apartment shared with my uncle of 2 bedroom apartment, 1 bathroom, 1 kitchen and 1 living room apartment. I was the oldest.

A decade later, my mom is some executive at the montreal bank (She never had any prior college diploma), earning a lot of money and has gained quite a bit of respect from her peers. My dad is a top notch accountant (though did a lot of stupid **** to lose money lol).

Over all, in the end my parents worked hard to get where they are. So when I see the title such as Canadian Values vs Multiculturalism, I feel a little insulted. Despite the fact that the Canadian system is "based" on multiculturalism.

Bar Sinister

#19

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Mutliculturalism is a Canadian value, as Praxius pointed out, and one that has worked very well for the most part. The idea of adopting ideas from immigrants instead of forcing them to conform 100% to the mainstream culture has added successfully to Canada's diversity. The problem with multiculturalism exists when some newly arrived minorities demand that the more extreme elements of their culture such as female circumcision, Sharia Law, and the subjugation of women become part of Canadian culture.

Historically, Canada has long encouraged a form of preserving the cultures of immigrant groups, even going so far as to settle 19th and early 20th immigrants in what was called "Block Settlements." The Canadian west is dotted with the remnants of these block settlements as seen in the names of various communities such as Gimli (Iceland), Bruderheim (Germany), and Viking (Norway), just to mention a few. The idea was to provide immigrants with a community they could fit into without the usual difficulty experienced by many newcomers. Eventually these communities became just as Canadian as the rest of the country.

FiveParadox

#20

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

At the outset of this discussion, let me make very clear that I support our unique Canadian take on multiculturalism — that is, the “Canadian mosaïc”. However, let me be just as clear that I feel there should be developed an understanding, perhaps even a codified one, of roles and responsibilities for all parties involved (because let’s face it, immigration is not just a task for immigrants, and it is not just a task for existing Canadians; it is an all-party national effort).

We should be very clear that although we encourage Canadians to hold on to their heritage, and to be proud of their heritage, they are (once arrived) first and foremost Canadian. There must be an understanding that English and French are our official languages, and there will be no federal or provincial monies spent to accomodate any languages other than those official languages when providing services. At the same time, it may be worth the one-off cost to prepare a list of language courses and resources in each Canadian region to provide to new Canadians to assist in the transition to what is often a brand-new language(s).

There should also be a very clear understanding of what the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms means for Canadians, and what it means for how a new Canadian should govern their own behaviour. Let’s face it, many new Canadians leave their own countries to escape discrimination and less-than-ideal national principles, but many new Canadians seem surprised at just how progressive the Western world (North America in particular) really is. New Canadians should not come to Canada with the objective of changing it into their home country; they should be encouraged to enrich the tapestry of our own mosaïc with their food, their music, their art and history, but not with the objective of entrenching foreign customs and laws into our own.

These things should be made much more clear than they currently are by Citizenship and Immigration Canada at the very outset of an application for citizenship or residence. And dare I say, we should introduce a system whereby citizenships and residences are probationary for a predetermined period of time, during which time repeated or serious breaches of such codified Canadian norms would result in our parting of company.

Dessolution

#21

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

As someone added, Brittan and France are multiculturalism gone wrong. You can also add Australia to that list lol constant Indian bashing, Cronulla Riots where a Lebanese Australian born kid got lynched from hundreds white aussies in the beach and the mob lost control and later mobbed a muslim girl I think, in the streets of Sydney (who was just taking a walk and bumped into them), and more erupting violence in a changing society of barely 22 million people.

Colpy

#22

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher

"Canadian Values are about Multiculturalism."

Really?

I believe that is Geronimo on the right......

Cliffy

#23

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

I believe that is Geronimo on the right......

And you would be correct. I have that t-shirt.

Socrates the Greek

#24

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

At the outset of this discussion, let me make very clear that I support our unique Canadian take on multiculturalism — that is, the “Canadian mosaïc”. However, let me be just as clear that I feel there should be developed an understanding, perhaps even a codified one, of roles and responsibilities for all parties involved (because let’s face it, immigration is not just a task for immigrants, and it is not just a task for existing Canadians; it is an all-party national effort).
We should be very clear that although we encourage Canadians to hold on to their heritage, and to be proud of their heritage, they are (once arrived) first and foremost Canadian. There must be an understanding that English and French are our official languages, and there will be no federal or provincial monies spent to accomodate any languages other than those official languages when providing services. At the same time, it may be worth the one-off cost to prepare a list of language courses and resources in each Canadian region to provide to new Canadians to assist in the transition to what is often a brand-new language(s).
There should also be a very clear understanding of what the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms means for Canadians, and what it means for how a new Canadian should govern their own behaviour. Let’s face it, many new Canadians leave their own countries to escape discrimination and less-than-ideal national principles, but many new...
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

Praxius

#25

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

It isn't ok to cater to other Canadian cultures, but it is ok to cater to English and French speaking Canadians. As long as you become like the rest of us, you can be yourself. I see. We should be the same as long as it is English-speaking, white, same religion, same gender, etc.

You will all become one with the Canada. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.... eh.

Praxius

#26

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher

"Canadian Values are about Multiculturalism."

Really?

That what it is Now... it's about multiculturalism.

But hey, if you and others want to go back to the old assimilation days of English rule where French and Natives (among other cultures) had to adopt to the English way of life, then your above picture would suit nicely.

Let's not forget that Canada isn't the only country with a history of oppressing the natives of a land (England, US, Australia, etc.)

CDNBear

#27

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius

But hey, if you and others want to go back to the old assimilation days of English rule where French and Natives (among other cultures) had to adopt to the English way of life, then your above picture would suit nicely.

The very fact that both Quebec and Native Nations such as the Haudenosaunee still fight to protect their sovereignty, dictates otherwise.

Quote:

Let's not forget that Canada isn't the only country with a history of oppressing the natives of a land (England, US, Australia, etc.)

Let's not gloss over the fact that no other country has used both its power and its standing as a Commonwealth Nation, to force other Nations to bloke Native Nations better fitting the definition of sovereign state from joining international communities.

Praxius

#28

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

Mutliculturalism is a Canadian value, as Praxius pointed out, and one that has worked very well for the most part. The idea of adopting ideas from immigrants instead of forcing them to conform 100% to the mainstream culture has added successfully to Canada's diversity. The problem with multiculturalism exists when some newly arrived minorities demand that the more extreme elements of their culture such as female circumcision, Sharia Law, and the subjugation of women become part of Canadian culture.

Agreed and that is where I draw the line as well.... they still have every right to seek these things being implemented or have the laws changed to allow them, everybody's allowed to at least try.... however with our existing charter, rights, laws, etc... they will fail and they should be fully aware that if any of them attempt any of the above and it breaks the law, they will be punished. If they can not accept that our laws protect people from those things and that they will never become a part of Canada.... they can leave for another country.

But so long as they follow the proper procedures and steps to seek what they want peacefully, I have no place to complain.

I can counter-argue on something and speak my mind just as freely against something I oppose and may feel is wrong... but if law and the courts see things their way.... so be it.

Quote:

Historically, Canada has long encouraged a form of preserving the cultures of immigrant groups, even going so far as to settle 19th and early 20th immigrants in what was called "Block Settlements." The Canadian west is dotted with the remnants of these block settlements as seen in the names of various communities such as Gimli (Iceland), Bruderheim (Germany), and Viking (Norway), just to mention a few.

Don't forget the Little Italy, China Towns and such that are all over the country.

Quote:

The idea was to provide immigrants with a community they could fit into without the usual difficulty experienced by many newcomers. Eventually these communities became just as Canadian as the rest of the country.

Also agreed.

Praxius

#29

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

The very fact that both Quebec and Native Nations such as the Haudenosaunee still fight to protect their sovereignty, dictates otherwise.

Let's not gloss over the fact that no other country has used both its power and its standing as a Commonwealth Nation, to force other Nations to bloke Native Nations better fitting the definition of sovereign state from joining international communities.

Sounds like the same thing happening to Quebec when it came to them trying to get support from France and other nations for their separation movement.... and Canada blocked them as well.

I'm not saying it's right.... and that indeed is something that should be addressed.... but to compare what's happening today, to what happened back when that photo was shot, is a tad bit on the exaggerated side.

Liberalman

#30

Re: Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism

Apr 30th, 2010

When you think about it what is Canadian Values?

In the beginning Canada had the French who wanted beaver and the English who wanted the pelts and the Natives who just watched

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