HEALTH CARE - User fees

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

Um, good point but I think MDs do hand out long term prescriptions. MIL gets 3 month's worth of her meds, 4 times a year before she needs a prescription renewed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Francis2004

AnnaG

They are covered by some employers and insurance companies.

Duhhhhh, Obviously.. ( sorry I couldn't not resist. being sarcastic . ) But no MSP plan has ever covered it and probably never will..

Yup. The one I get my eyes checked at always seems to have a customer of two in it.
Admittedly the franchised one at the mall in the same town is empty a lot, though. Perhaps.

And that's what I was talking about.. Most of those Clinics are Ghost towns..

Are you suggesting that if MDs start charging user fees, their business will disappear and they'll have to move to greener pastures?

Actually the point I was making was more along the lines that the Optometrists will move to places where they can make a better living..

But to the point JLM is making, it would certainly empty out regular MDs office if you start to charge a user fees.. That is the point..

Also do you expect the Government to let them keep that $20.00 user fee as extra income or deduct it from their total fee like they usually do anyway.. Come on this is Canada..

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

"Weird. I would think if you have a condition that's chronic, it'd make sense to prescribe long term. Unless the patient was coming in to see the doc relatively frequently anyway, as in the case of my MIL."

Weird, indeed. When I lived in Ontario (till 2007), having the same chronic conditions, all I had to do was going to the drug store and have the pharmacist to fax my request to the doctor's office.

Not in Manitoba, though. At least not my family doctor.

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

You mean like dentists and eye doctors do? Yeah, MDs would definitely have it so tough.

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

"Um, good point but I think MDs do hand out long term prescriptions. MIL gets 3 month's worth of her meds, 4 times a year before she needs a prescription renewed."

You are lucky. My family doctor never prescribes more than a month's supply, and never, never a refill without a visit to his office.

That is no less despicable than frivolous and unnecessary visits to a doctor's office.

Because IT IS.

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

"Yankee Go Home!"

I am sure Danny Williams is grateful that Americans did NOT take this despicable attitude about people from another country.

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

Yup. A lot of the troubles with healthcare are simply due to bureaucracy.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I doubt if $20 would generate any money for the system, might pay the cost of one extra person to handle the bookkeeping, but the intent would not be a cash cow but to shorten line ups and waiting times, so doctors wouldn't be wasting valuable time trimming hang nails. The $20 would only be for the initial visit for a bonafide illness. I can see a can of worms opening but that would another discussion.

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

Why just $20 for a first visit?
Lemme see, my doc gets about 25 patients a day. $20 per person is $500. What bookkeeper gets $500 a day?

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Are all 25 patients there on their initial visit? I was also including the price of the paper and the ink.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

User fees were tried in Alberta and were a complete failure for several reasons. First of all some people simply refused to pay them. Attempts by the Alberta government to collect eventually proved more expensive than what the fees took in. Second, the fees discouraged people with minor ailments from seeking medical attention until they had major ailments, thus greatly increasing the eventual cost of treatment. In some cases people stopped having their yearly physicals making it impossible to diagnose and treat minor ailments early.
User fees are a simplistic approach to medicare costs. If you really want lower health care costs put more money into health clinics and preventive medicine. If you want much lower health care costs get rid of all the profit-making private sector connections and if you want drastic reductions in health care put all doctors on salary.

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

Third problem would be what happens if somebody refuses to pay? A patient shows up at doctor’s office in need of medical treatment, but refuses to pay. And some will refuse to pay, a few out of sheer cussedness, others because they really don’t have the money.
If somebody comes to doctor’s office with a sob story as to how they cannot afford to pay, what is the doctor going to do? Turn the patient away? Many doctors will have ethical problem with that. Plus, the College of Physicians and Surgeons guideline will probably say that a doctor cannot refuse to treat a patient if he/she cannot pay the 20 $ visit fee.
Then is the doctor out of pocket? I assume the way it will work is if patient has to pay 20$, the government will pay the doctor 20 $ per patient less. Then the doctor is on the hook for anybody who doesn’t pay. Say a doctor sees 30 patients a day, 5 of them refuse to pay. That means the doctor is on the hook for 500 dollars per week.
Who is going to make up for that? If doctor has to take a cut in income, that means government has picked a fight with doctors. No government can win a fight with doctors, as Mike Harris found out here in Ontario to his cost.
So collection of the fee will also be a problem. The user fee here is not like paying for a pen or a loaf of bread. If you go to the store and you don’t have money, you don’t buy the loaf of bread or the pen, period. The store keeper is not going to give...

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Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

Well, there has been entirely too much sweetness and light here, with most agreeing how good an idea of user fee is, singing praises of user fee. I think it is about time I set the cat among the pigeons.

User fee is a terrible idea. Who is it going to discourage from visiting the doctor? It will be low income people of course. If that single mother has to pay 20 dollars every time she visits doctor, she may decide to ignore that fever, ignore that pain in the chest, hoping that it will go away.

Now, most of the times it probably will go away. However, in a few cases it will lead to complications, necessitating a hospital visit.

Let us say, 20 patients do not see the doctor because of the 20 dollar user fee. Out of that, 10% develop complications, and have to be hospitalized for one day each. That will mean hospital costs well in excess of 1000 $ each, it will cost more than 2000 $.

As opposed to that, suppose there was no user fee and all 20 had visited the doctor. The average fee the doctor gets for a patient visit is around 35 $, so the cost would come to 700 $.

700 $ as opposed to 2000 $, so what have you saved?

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Why make a problem where there is none- they have the guys mailing address and you mail the bill, if he doesn't pay within the allotted time, it just goes to collections. YOu can't beat collections or I should say it's not worth hassel even trying.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

You have to give people credit for having some brains, people know when they are sick, some people just want to have their hand held or need someone to talk to.

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

People don’t know when their illness will get well by itself and when it will lead to complications JLM. For that matter neither does doctor. So it is important to treat all the illnesses in the initial stages so that there are no complications later on requiring hospitalization (and huge costs associated with it).

Quote: Originally Posted by Francis2004

I'm lucky in my present MD gives me a years worth but my last one used to give me 1 month max.. That's why I changed..

My elderly Dad had the same issue and just recently switched..

It took him over a year to find a new MD. Not because none where available but because of his age and condition..

Quote: Originally Posted by justfred

I guess that you live in the province of plenty. I was of the opinion that medical expenses were tax deductable in all provinces. I can deduct medical expenses that are in excess of 3% of my earned income. Medical expenses include, health care premiums (when we paid them), extra health care like blue cross, dental expense, travel to doctors offices, eyeglasses and examinations, meals while traveling. I am glad that I live in Alberta as we are allowed to deduct these expenses. Look under the Medical Expenses in your income tax program and if in doubt seek advice with the help key.

Quote: Originally Posted by justfred

I guess that you live in the province of plenty. I was of the opinion that medical expenses were tax deductable in all provinces. I can deduct medical expenses that are in excess of 3% of my earned income. Medical expenses include, health care premiums (when we paid them), extra health care like blue cross, dental expense, travel to doctors offices, eyeglasses and examinations, meals while traveling. I am glad that I live in Alberta as we are allowed to deduct these expenses. Look under the Medical Expenses in your income tax program and if in doubt seek advice with the help key.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

There was an interesting article about that very thing in Readers' Digest several years ago- about 99% of illnesses take care of themselves and of the few that don't a doctor can't do much for the majority of them.