Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,094 
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 2nd, 2008, 03:55 PM
Society encourages psychopaths, expert says
Kim Bolan
Vancouver Sun/Canada.com
Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:34 EDT
Abbotsford - Today's society is a fertile breeding ground for psychopathic behaviour, says an international expert in the field.
Dr. Robert Hare, professor emeritus at the University of B.C., says that shifting ethical standards, reflected in television crime shows that glamorize the abnormal, allow psychopaths to flourish.
"What is clear is that society is making it a lot easier for psychopathy or psychopathic behaviour to flourish," Hare said.
"The moral ethical standards that we have now are shifting. What is acceptable now would not have been acceptable five or 10 or 20 years ago."
Hare told a conference of criminal justice professionals that they should consider psychopathic tendencies when dealing with offenders.
"[Police] are dealing with the very people I am discussing all the time," he said, adding the way police deal with individuals should depend on who they think they are confronting. "So if you are dealing with somebody who you think might have psychopathic features, you might want to approach him a little differently than if the person, say, had mental health problems."
Hare, author of the best-selling Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, was a keynote speaker at the three-day gathering of criminal justice professionals looking at prolific and dangerous offenders and how to reduce their impact on public safety.
Hare said research indicates that about 15 per cent of the prison population in Canada is psychopathic, compared to a guess of about one per cent of the general population.
He said it is hard to know if the numbers are increasing overall because studies are generally limited to people in jail and not society at large.
But he said changing social values - reflected in popular TV hits like Dexter, which is about a heroic serial killer - have made things worse.
"I won't even watch Dexter," he said. "In a sense what they are doing is glorifying, glamorizing and making normal what is really abnormal. All these programs like CSI and the hundreds of others. They are caricatures of what law enforcement does."
Hare has developed programs to evaluate psychopathic behaviour in the prison population that are being used to plan programs and post-custody supervision for criminals.
"My argument is that they know the difference between right and wrong. They know the rules of the game. They are perfectly aware of what society expects of them, but they have chosen for whatever reason not to follow these rules," he said of psychopaths.
"If it is to their advantage to engage in pro-social good behaviour, they are going to do so; if it is to their advantage to engage in anti-social behaviour, they are going to do so."
Abbotsford Det. Judy Dizy, one of the conference organizers, said there is increasing coordination between law enforcement agencies, prisons and provinces in dealing with high-risk violent offenders.
Dizy, who is seconded to the RCMP's behavioural sciences group, prepares all the special court applications - called 810s - to place conditions on high-risk offenders.
"We are beginning to make many more steps forward in regards to treatment, supervision and education of citizens, communities as well as police," Dizy said.
"We liaise with other high-risk offender units in other provinces to make sure we are all on the same page, nobody slips through the cracks. And that we keep track of where they are when they come in and out of our province."
She said the increased supervision and monitoring of high-risk offenders, plus greater support to parolees, can help reduce recidivism.
"Yes they are being supervised, but if they need assistance, there are people there who can help," she said.
"At least we can monitor them wherever they go throughout Canada and the U.S."
Society encourages psychopaths, expert says
Kim Bolan
Vancouver Sun/Canada.com
Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:34 EDT
Abbotsford - Today's society is a fertile breeding ground for psychopathic behaviour, says an international expert in the field.
Dr. Robert Hare, professor emeritus at the University of B.C., says that shifting ethical standards, reflected in television crime shows that glamorize the abnormal, allow psychopaths to flourish.
"What is clear is that society is making it a lot easier for psychopathy or psychopathic behaviour to flourish," Hare said.
"The moral ethical standards that we have now are shifting. What is acceptable now would not have been acceptable five or 10 or 20 years ago."
Hare told a conference of criminal justice professionals that they should consider psychopathic tendencies when dealing with offenders.
"[Police] are dealing with the very people I am discussing all the time," he said, adding the way police deal with individuals should depend on who they think they are confronting. "So if you are dealing with somebody who you think might have psychopathic features, you might want to approach him a little differently than if the person, say, had mental health problems."
Hare, author of the best-selling Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, was a keynote speaker at the three-day gathering of criminal justice professionals looking at prolific and dangerous offenders and how to reduce their impact on public safety.
Hare said research indicates that about 15 per cent of the prison population in Canada is psychopathic, compared to a guess of about one per cent of the general population.
He said it is hard to know if the numbers are increasing overall because studies are generally limited to people in jail and not society at large.
But he said changing social values - reflected in popular TV hits like Dexter, which is about a heroic serial killer - have made things worse.
"I won't even watch Dexter," he said. "In a sense what they are doing is glorifying, glamorizing and making normal what is really abnormal. All these programs like CSI and the hundreds of others. They are caricatures of what law enforcement does."
Hare has developed programs to evaluate psychopathic behaviour in the prison population that are being used to plan programs and post-custody supervision for criminals.
"My argument is that they know the difference between right and wrong. They know the rules of the game. They are perfectly aware of what society expects of them, but they have chosen for whatever reason not to follow these rules," he said of psychopaths.
"If it is to their advantage to engage in pro-social good behaviour, they are going to do so; if it is to their advantage to engage in anti-social behaviour, they are going to do so."
Abbotsford Det. Judy Dizy, one of the conference organizers, said there is increasing coordination between law enforcement agencies, prisons and provinces in dealing with high-risk violent offenders.
Dizy, who is seconded to the RCMP's behavioural sciences group, prepares all the special court applications - called 810s - to place conditions on high-risk offenders.
"We are beginning to make many more steps forward in regards to treatment, supervision and education of citizens, communities as well as police," Dizy said.
"We liaise with other high-risk offender units in other provinces to make sure we are all on the same page, nobody slips through the cracks. And that we keep track of where they are when they come in and out of our province."
She said the increased supervision and monitoring of high-risk offenders, plus greater support to parolees, can help reduce recidivism.
"Yes they are being supervised, but if they need assistance, there are people there who can help," she said.
"At least we can monitor them wherever they go throughout Canada and the U.S."
April 2nd, 2008, 05:47 PM
It's a test to see if you 'think' like a psychopath, not if you are one. Psychology distinguishes between the two. I got the correct answer the first time I saw that question. Yet, I can't even play first person shooter games because I can't stand even imaginary death. I am practically the polar opposite of a psychopath.
It's a test to see if you 'think' like a psychopath, not if you are one. Psychology distinguishes between the two. I got the correct answer the first time I saw that question. Yet, I can't even play first person shooter games because I can't stand even imaginary death. I am practically the polar opposite of a psychopath.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,171
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 2nd, 2008, 05:56 PM
I detest how serious the violence is on TV and movies, and with each generation, the parents will tolerate it more, as they are the children who just came through the 'last'
bout of violence on the tube and theatres, and, on and on it goes, and where it stops,
nobody knows.
I feel extremely irriated when the entertainment industry is interviewed, and they always
say, "We give the public what they want", no, they put as much into every movie as they
can legally get away with, and the bottom line is 'money', and they don't care about the
morality and safety of the children, or anyone. They hide behind all the 'freedoms', and
their freedoms get more liberal as time goes by, it is very scary.
I detest how serious the violence is on TV and movies, and with each generation, the parents will tolerate it more, as they are the children who just came through the 'last'
bout of violence on the tube and theatres, and, on and on it goes, and where it stops,
nobody knows.
I feel extremely irriated when the entertainment industry is interviewed, and they always
say, "We give the public what they want", no, they put as much into every movie as they
can legally get away with, and the bottom line is 'money', and they don't care about the
morality and safety of the children, or anyone. They hide behind all the 'freedoms', and
their freedoms get more liberal as time goes by, it is very scary.
April 2nd, 2008, 06:14 PM
On the topic of the OP....
I don't believe that society is able to create an extreme mental state such as that of a psychopath. And society definitely doesn't excuse one. One or two tv shows won't convince a psychopath to be healthy, and they certainly can't convince them to be ill.
I think if there is an increase in the number of psychopaths committing crimes, it has more to do with population rising and bringing everyone into closer and closer proximity all the time. Rats in an overcrowded cage. The crazy ones snap first.
On the topic of the OP....
I don't believe that society is able to create an extreme mental state such as that of a psychopath. And society definitely doesn't excuse one. One or two tv shows won't convince a psychopath to be healthy, and they certainly can't convince them to be ill.
I think if there is an increase in the number of psychopaths committing crimes, it has more to do with population rising and bringing everyone into closer and closer proximity all the time. Rats in an overcrowded cage. The crazy ones snap first.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,171
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 2nd, 2008, 06:29 PM
in entertainment creates more violence, as they always have to make it 'more and more',
so I feel that, even psychopaths must get more excited by the continuous depth
of violence they are able to watch, even though I agree with you, that the entertainment doesn't create the psychopath to begin with, that is a very complex creation, starting
from early childhood, I would imagine.
Quoting karrie
Yeah, I guess my post didn't really stick to the point of the OP, I just notice that violence
On the topic of the OP....
I don't believe that society is able to create an extreme mental state such as that of a psychopath. And society definitely doesn't excuse one. One or two tv shows won't convince a psychopath to be healthy, and they certainly can't convince them to be ill.
I think if there is an increase in the number of psychopaths committing crimes, it has more to do with population rising and bringing everyone into closer and closer proximity all the time. Rats in an overcrowded cage. The crazy ones snap first.
I don't believe that society is able to create an extreme mental state such as that of a psychopath. And society definitely doesn't excuse one. One or two tv shows won't convince a psychopath to be healthy, and they certainly can't convince them to be ill.
I think if there is an increase in the number of psychopaths committing crimes, it has more to do with population rising and bringing everyone into closer and closer proximity all the time. Rats in an overcrowded cage. The crazy ones snap first.
in entertainment creates more violence, as they always have to make it 'more and more',
so I feel that, even psychopaths must get more excited by the continuous depth
of violence they are able to watch, even though I agree with you, that the entertainment doesn't create the psychopath to begin with, that is a very complex creation, starting
from early childhood, I would imagine.
April 2nd, 2008, 06:36 PM
Quoting talloola
Ack! That's not what I meant... lol. I read yours and thought you'd done a better job of discussing the OP than I had, and figured I'd better throw my thoughts in. It wasn't meant to tell you that you were wandering, just that I had a bit before. Yeah, I guess my post didn't really stick to the point of the OP....
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 2nd, 2008, 11:22 PM
Karrie
It would be more comforting perhaps to believe that post-modern society isn't a breeding ground for psychopathy...unfortunately I believe it is.
We have created artificial environments that permit people to live where, had these specialized environments not existed, lack of potable water, resources in general and temperature extremes demand significantly more of everything. Our pursuit of something it's more comfortable to call "progress" legitimizes everything. While we on one hand shudder at the conditions of modern society, we are beginning to come to terms with issues like pornography. A vast number of people suggest it's "wrong" or "evil", that it objectifies and debases men and women and threatens nearly every "moral" standard... and yet pornography is a multi-billion dollar a year business and growing.
We identify drug abuse and controlled substances that wreck havoc on our social organizing principles, but the fact is that literally tons of money are made and spent by huge numbers of "normal" people every hour of every day on "acceptable" drugs like alcohol and tobbacco, while pharmaceuticals and other kinds of drugs as far back as fifty years ago were designated as so large a problem that we had to wage a "war on drugs"...... nothing has changed.
Our focus has been so finely attuned to personal "power" and personal interests, when someone even offhandedly makes a suggestion that individual "freedom" and "well-being" should be examined in the large context of society as a whole...passion erupts nearly immediately to squelch this topic and dismiss the notion as "un-natural" and not an inherent characteristic of Homo Sapiens......
The food chain is saturated with organic and inorganic chemicals, in both "fast-foods" and as we're learning almost daily...in our water systems and resevoirs. The relationship between how we see ourselves as entities "in the world" and the behaviors we accept as "normal" today cannot help but influence the emotional and psychological climate of our children. Our efforts to re-shape reality through TV movies Video games, cell-phones, I-Pods, a great deal of modern technology that while promising to link us and put us in communication with each other...is having the opposite effect.
There is a great deal more to this idea, but I'm not sure that it's even worth the time to build a case and present the data and material because we have been conditioned to listen to only those whom we've invested "authority", despite the fact that we are with an ever increasing frequency realizing that these authorities and the systems and structures of society simply cannot be trusted.....
This in itself is "crazy-making".....
Too bad, humanity had its chance and blew it.
Karrie
It would be more comforting perhaps to believe that post-modern society isn't a breeding ground for psychopathy...unfortunately I believe it is.
We have created artificial environments that permit people to live where, had these specialized environments not existed, lack of potable water, resources in general and temperature extremes demand significantly more of everything. Our pursuit of something it's more comfortable to call "progress" legitimizes everything. While we on one hand shudder at the conditions of modern society, we are beginning to come to terms with issues like pornography. A vast number of people suggest it's "wrong" or "evil", that it objectifies and debases men and women and threatens nearly every "moral" standard... and yet pornography is a multi-billion dollar a year business and growing.
We identify drug abuse and controlled substances that wreck havoc on our social organizing principles, but the fact is that literally tons of money are made and spent by huge numbers of "normal" people every hour of every day on "acceptable" drugs like alcohol and tobbacco, while pharmaceuticals and other kinds of drugs as far back as fifty years ago were designated as so large a problem that we had to wage a "war on drugs"...... nothing has changed.
Our focus has been so finely attuned to personal "power" and personal interests, when someone even offhandedly makes a suggestion that individual "freedom" and "well-being" should be examined in the large context of society as a whole...passion erupts nearly immediately to squelch this topic and dismiss the notion as "un-natural" and not an inherent characteristic of Homo Sapiens......
The food chain is saturated with organic and inorganic chemicals, in both "fast-foods" and as we're learning almost daily...in our water systems and resevoirs. The relationship between how we see ourselves as entities "in the world" and the behaviors we accept as "normal" today cannot help but influence the emotional and psychological climate of our children. Our efforts to re-shape reality through TV movies Video games, cell-phones, I-Pods, a great deal of modern technology that while promising to link us and put us in communication with each other...is having the opposite effect.
There is a great deal more to this idea, but I'm not sure that it's even worth the time to build a case and present the data and material because we have been conditioned to listen to only those whom we've invested "authority", despite the fact that we are with an ever increasing frequency realizing that these authorities and the systems and structures of society simply cannot be trusted.....
This in itself is "crazy-making".....
Too bad, humanity had its chance and blew it.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,171
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 3rd, 2008, 06:53 PM
remember the long-ago past, and I loved movies, (no television then), and the violence
was much simpler, and less graphic/realistic. Most everything was left to the imagination. The focus wasn't on how the special effects guys could show us just how
gruesome all the blood and guts really are. As time goes by there seem to be more and more 'real' people in this world who want/have to make a point in their life, to show how they can wield power over others.
The ownership of guns in the u.s., the large population, the immense poverty, the gang wars, and the psychopathic behavior of many, has got to contribute to the violence.
Television came along when I was about 14, and those shows were so simple, the humour
was simple, (johnny carson era), now it is gross and far too blunt, but some of it is good.
The breakdown of the traditional family, high divorce rate, and the freedom and more
power that women have, has got to be fodder for the psychopathic mind to become
more angry and mean. Is there a stat that notes what percentage of the murders, and how much the violence by psychopaths, is directed toward women.
Quoting karrie
That's OK, I don't know what will happen as time goes by, as being older than most here, I
Ack! That's not what I meant... lol. I read yours and thought you'd done a better job of discussing the OP than I had, and figured I'd better throw my thoughts in. It wasn't meant to tell you that you were wandering, just that I had a bit before.
remember the long-ago past, and I loved movies, (no television then), and the violence
was much simpler, and less graphic/realistic. Most everything was left to the imagination. The focus wasn't on how the special effects guys could show us just how
gruesome all the blood and guts really are. As time goes by there seem to be more and more 'real' people in this world who want/have to make a point in their life, to show how they can wield power over others.
The ownership of guns in the u.s., the large population, the immense poverty, the gang wars, and the psychopathic behavior of many, has got to contribute to the violence.
Television came along when I was about 14, and those shows were so simple, the humour
was simple, (johnny carson era), now it is gross and far too blunt, but some of it is good.
The breakdown of the traditional family, high divorce rate, and the freedom and more
power that women have, has got to be fodder for the psychopathic mind to become
more angry and mean. Is there a stat that notes what percentage of the murders, and how much the violence by psychopaths, is directed toward women.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,094
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 3rd, 2008, 07:13 PM
Looking for evil in the wrong places - class prejudice
For many, perhaps most people, evil is something you find in prisons or slums. They simply do not think of people who have money and dress nicely as being evil. But successful psychopaths do not end up in prisons or slums. They can be bankers, physicians, professionals of any stripe, politicians, even leaders of nations.http://www.sott.net/articles/show/15...tical-Purposes
The consequences to the average citizen from business crimes are staggering: The combined burglary, mugging and other property losses induced by the country's street punks come to about $4 billion a year. However, the seemingly upstanding citizens in our corporate board rooms and the humble clerks in our retail stores bilk us out of between $40 and $200 billion a year.
* Scott Peck estimates a prevalence of evil of less than 20 times this amount - about 2 cases per thousand people. The difference probably has to do with the fact that Peck doesn't classify "ordinary psychopaths" as being evil, unless they very actively seek to do substantial damage to others. This is more in line with Lobaczewski's "essential psychopathy", which he defines as someone whose role in the ponerogenic process is 'exceptionally great'.
In such cases evil individuals or cabals may take control of a whole nation, and then the destruction often becomes enormous, in the form of genocides or other mass murders. James Petras explains in Rulers and Ruled in the U.S. Empire:
Explanations of genocides that focus on "irrational mass behavior", overlook the central importance of elite manipulation, anchored in the state, the economy and civil society. In none of the genocides of the 20th and 21st Century were the "masses" in a position to initiate, organize and direct them, though, certainly, sectors of the lower classes carried out the policies.
Looking for evil in the wrong places - class prejudice
For many, perhaps most people, evil is something you find in prisons or slums. They simply do not think of people who have money and dress nicely as being evil. But successful psychopaths do not end up in prisons or slums. They can be bankers, physicians, professionals of any stripe, politicians, even leaders of nations.http://www.sott.net/articles/show/15...tical-Purposes
The consequences to the average citizen from business crimes are staggering: The combined burglary, mugging and other property losses induced by the country's street punks come to about $4 billion a year. However, the seemingly upstanding citizens in our corporate board rooms and the humble clerks in our retail stores bilk us out of between $40 and $200 billion a year.
* Scott Peck estimates a prevalence of evil of less than 20 times this amount - about 2 cases per thousand people. The difference probably has to do with the fact that Peck doesn't classify "ordinary psychopaths" as being evil, unless they very actively seek to do substantial damage to others. This is more in line with Lobaczewski's "essential psychopathy", which he defines as someone whose role in the ponerogenic process is 'exceptionally great'.
In such cases evil individuals or cabals may take control of a whole nation, and then the destruction often becomes enormous, in the form of genocides or other mass murders. James Petras explains in Rulers and Ruled in the U.S. Empire:
Explanations of genocides that focus on "irrational mass behavior", overlook the central importance of elite manipulation, anchored in the state, the economy and civil society. In none of the genocides of the 20th and 21st Century were the "masses" in a position to initiate, organize and direct them, though, certainly, sectors of the lower classes carried out the policies.
House Member
Posts: 3,066
April 3rd, 2008, 09:03 PM
Tell you what MikeyDB, you can live with self-denial all you want, it won't hurt me one bit, I'll even do my part to tell society to bugger off from stopping you.
You try and tell me to live to your moral standards and benefits of a society forced upon me over my own personal goals, and I hope your ready to kill someone for not wanting to be a part of that society.
Tell you what MikeyDB, you can live with self-denial all you want, it won't hurt me one bit, I'll even do my part to tell society to bugger off from stopping you.
You try and tell me to live to your moral standards and benefits of a society forced upon me over my own personal goals, and I hope your ready to kill someone for not wanting to be a part of that society.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,171
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 4th, 2008, 12:49 AM
through history, I agree. A psychopath can talk nice, be your friend when he needs to be, and get himself to his comfort zone, then close in for the kill. Hitler and Saddam Hussein come to mind, as they are obvious choices, but there are many others, many who hide
in sheeps clothing.
Quoting darkbeaver
Many people who seek power and insist on being leaders are phychopaths, just go back Looking for evil in the wrong places - class prejudice
For many, perhaps most people, evil is something you find in prisons or slums. They simply do not think of people who have money and dress nicely as being evil. But successful psychopaths do not end up in prisons or slums. They can be bankers, physicians, professionals of any stripe, politicians, even leaders of nations.http://www.sott.net/articles/show/15...tical-Purposes
The consequences to the average citizen from business crimes are staggering: The combined burglary, mugging and other property losses induced by the country's street punks come to about $4 billion a year. However, the seemingly upstanding citizens in our corporate board rooms and the humble clerks in our retail stores bilk us out of between $40 and $200 billion a year.
* Scott Peck estimates a prevalence of evil of less than 20 times this amount - about 2 cases per thousand people. The difference probably has to do with the fact that Peck doesn't classify "ordinary psychopaths" as being evil, unless they very actively seek to do substantial damage to others. This is more in line with Lobaczewski's "essential psychopathy", which he defines as someone whose role in the ponerogenic process is 'exceptionally great'.
In such cases evil individuals or cabals may take control of a whole nation, and then the destruction often becomes enormous, in the form of genocides or other mass murders. James Petras explains in Rulers and Ruled in the U.S. Empire:
Explanations of genocides that focus on "irrational mass behavior", overlook the central importance of elite manipulation, anchored in the state, the economy and civil society. In none of the genocides of the 20th and 21st Century were the "masses" in a position to initiate, organize and direct them, though, certainly, sectors of the lower classes carried out the policies.
For many, perhaps most people, evil is something you find in prisons or slums. They simply do not think of people who have money and dress nicely as being evil. But successful psychopaths do not end up in prisons or slums. They can be bankers, physicians, professionals of any stripe, politicians, even leaders of nations.http://www.sott.net/articles/show/15...tical-Purposes
The consequences to the average citizen from business crimes are staggering: The combined burglary, mugging and other property losses induced by the country's street punks come to about $4 billion a year. However, the seemingly upstanding citizens in our corporate board rooms and the humble clerks in our retail stores bilk us out of between $40 and $200 billion a year.
* Scott Peck estimates a prevalence of evil of less than 20 times this amount - about 2 cases per thousand people. The difference probably has to do with the fact that Peck doesn't classify "ordinary psychopaths" as being evil, unless they very actively seek to do substantial damage to others. This is more in line with Lobaczewski's "essential psychopathy", which he defines as someone whose role in the ponerogenic process is 'exceptionally great'.
In such cases evil individuals or cabals may take control of a whole nation, and then the destruction often becomes enormous, in the form of genocides or other mass murders. James Petras explains in Rulers and Ruled in the U.S. Empire:
Explanations of genocides that focus on "irrational mass behavior", overlook the central importance of elite manipulation, anchored in the state, the economy and civil society. In none of the genocides of the 20th and 21st Century were the "masses" in a position to initiate, organize and direct them, though, certainly, sectors of the lower classes carried out the policies.
through history, I agree. A psychopath can talk nice, be your friend when he needs to be, and get himself to his comfort zone, then close in for the kill. Hitler and Saddam Hussein come to mind, as they are obvious choices, but there are many others, many who hide
in sheeps clothing.
