Need prairie people advice

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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In rural prairie communities are there such things as hay harvest cooperatives? If someone has property but doesn't have the means nor desire to harvest hay is it likely there could be people that harvest it and take away for themselves, or are property owners stuck with 6 foot long grass until they get some farm animals to eat it?

Stupid question huh? I'm an urbanite trying to evaluate a rural idea and would appreciate if anyone has some wisdom in this area.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
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Regina, SK
Never heard of a cooperative specifically for hay harvesting, cooperatives are usually more broadly-based than that, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Here in Saskatchewan, for instance, The Co-op, as everybody calls it, is an integrated big business in both wholesale and retail, runs gas stations, farm supply shops, dry goods stores, grocery stores, lumber yards, hardware stores, home improvement centres, the works, all over the province.

Usually, if a landowner has a hay crop but lacks the means to harvest it, the crop will be sold standing in the field, and whoever buys it has to arrange for baling and collection. It's not likely to be six feet tall either, maybe half that. My father-in-law used to grow 160 acres of alfalfa every second or third year, rotating it around various fields--alfalfa's a nitrogen fixer, if I remember right, helps recover soil fertility from depletion by cereal crops--but he had no animals to feed it to or the equipment to cut and bale it, so he'd just put an ad in the local paper to sell it standing. It was sold on a per bale basis, so the buyer would do the baling, then we'd go out and count the bales, and of course the guy who did the baling always said there were fewer bales than we counted, but that's another issue.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Yer welcome. And I can't resist another bit of trivia. Alfalfa--what people usually mean around here when they say hay--is a small-leafed bushy green plant that's good for all kinds of livestock, and the name is originally Arabic, it's what they fed those famous Arabian horses. It's from an Arabic phrase meaning the father of horses.

Gawd, my head's full of trivial information, and the only thing it seems to be good for is that I've never (yes, *never*) lost a game of Trivial Pursuit. Except for those dumb specialty editions, like the Sports Edition. But I don't care about those. On general knowledge, I win every time. People won't play with me anymore... <pout>
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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I don't doubt that winning streak Dexter. You are like an encyclopedia, but a lot more fun to learn from.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
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Regina, SK
You flatterer... :smile: I think my mother-in-law could probably beat me at Trivial Pursuit if she'd bother to play, she's been around for 88 years and remembers everything, but like a lot of women of her generation she has very little formal education and doesn't think she knows very much, so she won't play. But any time we play the Genus edition and she's around, if we get a question that stumps everybody, odds are she knows the answer. She's a voracious reader and consumer of news and information and always has been, and she's pretty bright, it's all stayed with her. She can tell you, for instance, and has told me, trivial details like who Dwight Eisenhower's Secretary of the Interior was, and what determines the gender of turtles in the nest of eggs buried in the sand. I don't remember the former, but the latter I remember (because it interested me) has to do with the depth of burial of the eggs and consequently the temperature at various levels in the nest. She vastly underestimates herself.

Hmm.... bit of a hijack, but somehow it seemed relevant.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Does alfalfa have to have 'heat' to grow well? I mean 'lots' of heat and very little rain.
Can it be grown as a cover crop in the fall, then dug into the soil for the winter, or, is
that useless on Vancouver Island.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
It's not a cover crop, at least not on the prairies, it's too valuable as livestock feed. In fact the term "cover crop" is a bit of a misnomer. If it's for cover, it's not a crop in the usual sense, because it's supposed to stay there indefinitely, to stabilize the soil against erosion and catch the winter snow to enhance soil moisture and control water movement. "Cover crops" are usually hardy native grasses; you can mow them, much as we do with urban lawns, and bale them as livestock feed, but they're not as good as something like alfalfa for most livestock, except the native livestock like bison, which evolved to live on the stuff. Prairie grass is not the best feed for domestic cattle and sheep and horses. They can live on it, but they won't get as big as fast as other feeds can do for them.

In the early 1970s when commodity prices were high and there seemed to be lots of water around, a lot of very marginal prairie land was plowed up for grain growing that really should have been left alone because it really wasn't suitable for cereal crops in the long term, it was drought-prone grassland. In the years since, federal and provincial governments, after finally figuring that out, have created programs with names like PCP, Permanent Cover Program, that pay landowners to take such marginal land out of production and re-seed it with native grasses that can be mowed for livestock feed but shouldn't be plowed up. The land can produce good grain crops only in the rare wet years, and in other years is subject to drifting and erosion without the cover of native grasses that evolved to cope with such circumstances.

Bad idea to cross Mother Nature. She'll get you in the end.
 

Lester

Council Member
Sep 28, 2007
1,062
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Ardrossan, Alberta
Make a deal with you neibour, if you have enough land he may want to rent it from you to graze his livestock or horses - or you could get a big tractor mower, we have three and a half acres and i'll tell you it's no fun spending half a day every other week to cut it.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
In rural prairie communities are there such things as hay harvest cooperatives? If someone has property but doesn't have the means nor desire to harvest hay is it likely there could be people that harvest it and take away for themselves, or are property owners stuck with 6 foot long grass until they get some farm animals to eat it?

Stupid question huh? I'm an urbanite trying to evaluate a rural idea and would appreciate if anyone has some wisdom in this area.


A few more thoughts on hay and other forage crops....

Firstly, farmers all over the country enter into private arrangements with other farmers to get the crops off the fields....Some informal, some more organized...It usually an issue of scale....But the crops usually get off the fields....

As for alfalfa, yes a good feed but you don't want more than approx. 10 -15% in your feed mix as it is a high protein feed and too "hot" for a steady diet for livestock....

One of the practical issues facing farmers during this time of climate change (most rural people will tell you that they see the effects of climate change in the changing patterns of the prevailing winds through the seasons) is that moisture in its various forms is coming during harvest season....The problem for forage crops is that once they are dropped in the fields to dry before bailing, if they get "rained on", they lose alot of their nutritional value...This is a huge issue for farm revenues and forage quality....One of the solutions that we may see more of in the future all over Canada is the development of dehydration plants so that field forage can be dried immediately after cutting, reducing the risk of harvest rains....The plants will probably established to use waste heat from other industrial activities or powered by field residues such as wheat chaff or switchgrass....

One thing is for sure we are probably going to see one more step in the forage feed processing chain in the future directly related to climate change....

While on the subject of rural industrialization, watch for the development of flax fibre strategies....We've long produced flax seed as a crop, but the stalk fibre is the base material in the production of duck canvas and other waterproof textiles....This will be a growth industry as rough industrial textiles will increase in demand....

Sorry for the ramble....

Just a bit of sharing....
 
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Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
1,535
41
48
Calgary, Alberta
Does alfalfa have to have 'heat' to grow well? I mean 'lots' of heat and very little rain.
Can it be grown as a cover crop in the fall, then dug into the soil for the winter, or, is
that useless on Vancouver Island.

Alfalfa can and does grow well on the island.

Pangloss