Occupy Wall Street's debt buying strikes at the heart of capitalism

[Cliffy]

When the Occupy movement came into being in the summer of 2011, its critics said that a lack of identifiable objectives and strategy for achieving them meant it was doomed to fail. This was a monumental underestimation of its potential impact. Two years on, the debate about the ethics of corporate capitalism in its current form, the fairness of the remuneration of those at the top, the widening wealth gap and the morality of tax avoidance is alive and well. The concept of the "99%" is now part of the collective consciousness. All this is, in no small part, down to the fuse lit by the Occupy movement.
However, another significant aspect of the movement – dismissed as being woolly – was that it brought like-minded people together and allowed a dialogue which identified common strands. This appears to have evolved into several focused and practical initiatives. One of the most significant, and perhaps the most threatening to the status quo, is the Strike Debt group, of which the Rolling Jubilee project forms part.


more: Occupy Wall Street's debt buying strikes at the heart of capitalism | Alex Andreou | Comment is free | theguardian.com

 

[taxslave]

A lot of rather twisted logic in there. Keeps the believers happy I guess. In the long run this is of immense benefit to industry because these people have been relieved of their debt and are now free to get new loans and buy stuff they probably don't really need.

 

[Cliffy]

A lot of rather twisted logic in there. Keeps the believers happy I guess. In the long run this is of immense benefit to industry because these people have been relieved of their debt and are now free to get new loans and buy stuff they probably don't really need.

Mmmmm..... speaking of twisted logic....

 

[taxslave]

Mmmmm..... speaking of twisted logic....

Not really. The note holders have already written off the bad loans against their taxes. Now dogooders with more money than brains have made some people debt free. That I have no problem with. But I'm betting the majority of them will soon be in debt again.

 

[Cliffy]

Not really. The note holders have already written off the bad loans against their taxes. Now dogooders with more money than brains have made some people debt free. That I have no problem with. But I'm betting the majority of them will soon be in debt again.

That is not the point. The present economic and monetary systems are ridiculously unsustainable and based on nothing tangible. What they are trying to do is collapse the system to force governmemnts and bankers to come up with something more sustainable and sensible. Revolutions doesn't always have to involve bloodshed.

 

[captain morgan]

That is not the point. The present economic and monetary systems are ridiculously unsustainable and based on nothing tangible. What they are trying to do is collapse the system to force governmemnts and bankers to come up with something more sustainable and sensible. Revolutions doesn't always have to involve bloodshed.

The biggest unsustainable factor is a high (and rising) level of social services that are demanded... That is a simple expression of entitlement and it will be the downfall of that system.

 

[petros]

The strange thing is you can buy tangibles with something that has no tangible backing.

 

[Liberalman]

The biggest unsustainable factor is a high (and rising) level of social services that are demanded... That is a simple expression of entitlement and it will be the downfall of that system.

Entitlements? Everybody has to be earning money for their entitlements and it is the government’s job to protect the jobs and enforce the laws like illegal aliens taking away jobs that are for the citizens of this country.

 

[captain morgan]

The strange thing is you can buy tangibles with something that has no tangible backing.

'Obligation' in terms of the backing is kinda a bit of both

Entitlements? Everybody has to be earning money for their entitlements and it is the government’s job to protect the jobs and enforce the laws like illegal aliens taking away jobs that are for the citizens of this country.

They are desperate for people in Sask and Ab right now.

 

[Cliffy]

The biggest unsustainable factor is a high (and rising) level of social services that are demanded... That is a simple expression of entitlement and it will be the downfall of that system.

The government builds roads and other infrastructure so that corporations can rape the environment. Do you consider that entitlements too?

 

[cj44]

The government builds roads and other infrastructure so that corporations can rape the environment. Do you consider that entitlements too?

Taxpayers paid for those roads cliffy.

 

[Cliffy]

Taxpayers paid for those roads cliffy.

Yes I know. That was my point.

 

[Omicron]

The biggest unsustainable factor is a high (and rising) level of social services that are demanded... That is a simple expression of entitlement and it will be the downfall of that system.

The whole point of having a civilization is that it enables "social services" to happen by virtue of the power of numbers, but it depends on how the wealth is distributed.

When a middle-class is dominant, the majority can afford to pitch in a bit for things like taking care of citizens when they're sick, such that what you call "entitlements" are just a cheep and efficient way to streamline the solution of problems common to all, i.e., anybody can get sick, and it's hard to pay for treatment if you're sick, but if you can be cured, then you can get back to work and start pitching in again.

But when half the economy is in the hands of 1%, they start grumbling about how they don't want to take care of sick people... they'll say things like, "That's not my problem". I know some very rich people in the US, and a gripe I've heard about Obamacare is (I quote) "I don't want to pay for care of sick n*ggers and wetbacks! It's their problem!" (That is a literal quote.)

Isaac Asimov predicted there would come a day when a few people would end up owning everything, and instead of plowing their money back into the economy the way nobles of the middle ages would circulate money through the economy by employing craftsmen and artisans to build cathedrals, they would instead use it to build armies of robots to serve their every need, until they could cut themselves away from the rest of the humanity whose wealth they had scooped out like a pumpkin, and move to another planet.

Maybe he was right. One thing you'll notice is how one area of research that never has trouble getting funding is robotics. It's probably already at a stage where a very rich private citizen can buy his own fleet of drones.

 

[EagleSmack]

Yes I know. That was my point.

Corporations pay for that as well.

 

[Omicron]

The government builds roads and other infrastructure so that corporations can rape the environment. Do you consider that entitlements too?

Actually, that's probably *exactly* how the corporations see it.

Speaking of corporate entitlements and how in the US they've become legally classified as "people" (in order to justify them making unlimited donations to a political party the way a private individual might)...

I think for a corporation to get "person" status, it should have to exist according to the same standards as a normal human, which means... it would be illegal for it to knowingly hurt another.

How many corporations do you know where, if it's behavior were subjected to a personality test, would *not* end up being classified as psychopathic?

 

[cj44]

Yes I know. That was my point.

Corporations pay taxes too.

The whole point of having a civilization is that it enables "social services" to happen by virtue of the power of numbers, but it depends on how the wealth is distributed.

When a middle-class is dominant, the majority can afford to pitch in a bit for things like taking care of citizens when they're sick, such that what you call "entitlements" are just a cheep and efficient way to streamline the solution of problems common to all, i.e., anybody can get sick, and it's hard to pay for treatment if you're sick, but if you can be cured, then you can get back to work and start pitching in again.

But when half the economy is in the hands of 1%, they start grumbling about how they don't want to take care of sick people... they'll say things like, "That's not my problem". I know some very rich people in the US, and a gripe I've heard about Obamacare is (I quote) "I don't want to pay for care of sick n*ggers and wetbacks! It's their problem!" (That is a literal quote.)

Isaac Asimov predicted there would come a day when a few people would end up owning everything, and instead of plowing their money back into the economy the way nobles of the middle ages would circulate money through the economy by employing craftsmen and artisans to build cathedrals, they would instead use it to build armies of robots to serve their every need, until they could cut themselves away from the rest of the humanity whose wealth they had scooped out like a pumpkin, and move to another planet.

Maybe he was right. One thing you'll notice is how one area of research that never has trouble getting funding is robotics. It's probably already at a stage where a very rich private citizen can buy his own fleet of drones.

Well all of that is just a big old pile of manure. The 1% are the most charitable. Good Grief! AHHHHH. I have just fallen into the trap. Clearly, there are stingy stooged scrooges in all classes. And if one day only a few own everything you can thank Obama and his ilk. Spreading the wealth does NOT work. In so doing, you spread poverty and then the super rich hold on to their coins all more because they don't want what they worked for going to sluggards. They gladly (not all) give to the poor. Look at your philanthropists - they aren't the people making minimum wage. Did you personally get burned by a "corportation" or are you just looking for something to gripe about?

You might want to thank the 1% and the corporations for footing 90% of bill.

 

[eh1eh]

Corporations pay for that as well.

Where do corporations get their money?
From your pocket. The loop is closed. There is only one dollar.

 

[taxslave]

I think we need to divide the companies into at least two groups.
Group A)the creators, those that create wealth by building products, taking risks in exploration etc.
Group B) the parasites that buy and sell shares and futures and bankrupt viable companies without a single care except to squeeze a penny out of every sale.

 

[cj44]

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy;
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery” ... Winston Churchill

 

[Sal]

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy;
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery” ... Winston Churchill

capitalism ain't working so well anymore either...we need a new system