#1Feb 10th, 2010
Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
#2
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
Most people probably have "bigger fish to fry". --
#3
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010
don't want the fish farms? Don't buy farmed fish. If people didn't buy the damn crap, then they would close down.
#4
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
Yep, that's about it. No demand, no supply necessary.don't want the fish farms? Don't buy farmed fish. If people didn't buy the damn crap, then they would close down.
I'm not sure if we want to start hauling out a bunch of "causes" during the Olympics...isn't one of the objectives supposed to be that we "look good" in the eyes of the world? Jeez, we may want to sweep the fish farm thing under the rug until the media folks all go home.
#5
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010
I once had farmed salmon by accident in a restaurant a few years ago. The menu said salmon and it turned out to be farmed fish. It had a sort of mealy consistency that I didn't like. I wouldn't buy it. It is an inferior product and it is detrimental to wild salmon.
#6
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
Juan, I liked your first description of it better..."crap." But yeah, it's pretty sad stuff alright. Have a friend who worked on a fish farm some years ago. He won't go anywhere near a farmed fish these days. Tells me he used to get weird growths on his hands from handling the "supercharged" feed, and even grew hair on his hands! (Yeah, I wondered about that one too!) Can't be any growth hormones in the stuff, eh? I once had farmed salmon by accident in a restaurant a few years ago. The menu said salmon and it turned out to be farmed fish. It had a sort of mealy consistency that I didn't like. I wouldn't buy it. It is an inferior product and it is detrimental to wild salmon.
#7
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
So, the farms are detrimental, but using the wild fish as our exclusive food supply isn't? I once had farmed salmon by accident in a restaurant a few years ago. The menu said salmon and it turned out to be farmed fish. It had a sort of mealy consistency that I didn't like. I wouldn't buy it. It is an inferior product and it is detrimental to wild salmon.
I sense a middle ground needed in there somewhere.
#8
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by karrie
I agree. It would be nice if the farms were restricted to using something more natural than "Frankinfeed" for their production. Kinda' like feeding cows grass instead of the feedlot diet. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.So, the farms are detrimental, but using the wild fish as our exclusive food supply isn't?
I sense a middle ground needed in there somewhere.
#9
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010
--
Wild young salmon burdened with fish-farm lice
Image credit: Alexandra Morton, Science News
Humans wolf down more than 9 million metric tons of farmed fish every year. Lots of consumers believe farmed fish are a more eco-friendly diet choice than wild fish, many of which are declining due to overharvesting and climate change. But a growing body of scientific studies suggest that fish farms, or aquaculture pens, are not friendly at all to aquatic environments or consumers. Fish in crowded pens, just like livestock in crowded pens, are prone to illness and parasites. Farmed fish are customarily doused with fungicides, parasite medicines, antibiotics, and dyes to render their flesh an appetizing color. All of these substances leak out into the surrounding waters. One recent study, presented February 15 at the meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, concluded that fish farms in the Pacific Northwest are dangerous to wild salmon. When inch-long young pink salmon and chum salmon swim down the area's coastal rivers toward the ocean, many pass fish farms or aquaculture pens in coastal inlets. These wild juveniles often pick up sea lice that are abundant in the crowded aquaculture pens and drift outside the pens.
The lice suck blood from the tiny fish, and the wounds are also an opening for harmful bacteria and viruses. According to Martin Krkošek of the University of Washington in Seattle, mortality to wild young salmon passing by lice-infested fish farms can be as high as 95 percent.
In addition to making the young fish sick, the parasite load also affects their predator-avoidance behaviors, so that the young salmon are more likely to be eaten by predatory birds and bigger fish. Experiments have shown that while healthy young salmon dart away from a bird diving into the water, the lice-laden youngsters take longer to seek shelter and are thus more vulnerable. The lice-burdened little salmon are also less likely to seek shelter inside a fish school, straggling along on the outside of the school instead, where they are quickly picked off by predatory fish.
Wild young salmon burdened with fish-farm liceImage credit: Alexandra Morton, Science News
The lice suck blood from the tiny fish, and the wounds are also an opening for harmful bacteria and viruses. According to Martin Krkošek of the University of Washington in Seattle, mortality to wild young salmon passing by lice-infested fish farms can be as high as 95 percent.
In addition to making the young fish sick, the parasite load also affects their predator-avoidance behaviors, so that the young salmon are more likely to be eaten by predatory birds and bigger fish. Experiments have shown that while healthy young salmon dart away from a bird diving into the water, the lice-laden youngsters take longer to seek shelter and are thus more vulnerable. The lice-burdened little salmon are also less likely to seek shelter inside a fish school, straggling along on the outside of the school instead, where they are quickly picked off by predatory fish.
#10
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
Good article, Juan. I've never seen that problem summarized so well before. Now about that happy medium...hmm...inland salmon farms? Maybe not. Lice from fish farms attack wild salmon
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
Image credit: Alexandra Morton, Science News
Humans wolf down more than 9 million metric tons of farmed fish every year. Lots of consumers believe farmed fish are a more eco-friendly diet choice than wild fish, many of which are declining due to overharvesting and climate change. But a growing body of scientific studies suggest that fish farms, or aquaculture pens, are not friendly at all to aquatic environments or consumers. Fish in crowded pens, just like livestock in crowded pens, are prone to illness and parasites. Farmed fish are customarily doused with fungicides, parasite medicines, antibiotics, and dyes to render their flesh an appetizing color. All of these substances leak out into the surrounding waters. One recent study, presented February 15 at the meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of...
#11
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy
how about vaccinations for farmed fish so that they don't become lice ridden cess pools? Which, btw, is what our resident oceanic expert (Tonington) is up to with his new job.Good article, Juan. I've never seen that problem summarized so well before. Now about that happy medium...hmm...inland salmon farms? Maybe not.
#12
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by karrie
Tonington can likely tell us but from what I've read, a good part of the problem is overcrowding. They are squeezing so many fish into too small a place and the waste food helps to cause the lice infestation and other problems.how about vaccinations for farmed fish so that they don't become lice ridden cess pools? Which, btw, is what our resident oceanic expert (Tonington) is up to with his new job.
#13
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
Super Store sells that crap and it's at a lower price so people buy it. We live here on the West Coast where fish is so expensive hardly anyone can afford to buy it. My store has a two for one sale on Sockeye this week. Still expensive but I bought anyway just so we could have some good salmon. Halibut is around but there is very little of it. The cost is almost more dear than going out to a good restauant for their best steak dinner.don't want the fish farms? Don't buy farmed fish. If people didn't buy the damn crap, then they would close down.
#14
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
We once owned a little restaurant here on the Island. Not being too up on our fish, we bought farm fish when wild fish was out of season. Thankfully, we only bought a small amount. It was cooked up as usual, sent out to the customer and sent back to the kitchen just as quickly. The locals knew their fish and they said they were not eating the crap.I once had farmed salmon by accident in a restaurant a few years ago. The menu said salmon and it turned out to be farmed fish. It had a sort of mealy consistency that I didn't like. I wouldn't buy it. It is an inferior product and it is detrimental to wild salmon.
#15
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010
Closed containment Salmon aquaculture sounds like a great idea but once the true cost of the product is reflected in the price........
In the end we may find that raising meat eating fish is just too expensive, vegetarian fish like Carp or Catfish might be the way to make it pay.
In the end we may find that raising meat eating fish is just too expensive, vegetarian fish like Carp or Catfish might be the way to make it pay.
#16
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by karrie
Uh, more crap in the fish? No thanks.how about vaccinations for farmed fish so that they don't become lice ridden cess pools? Which, btw, is what our resident oceanic expert (Tonington) is up to with his new job.
#17
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
That is only part of the problem. Some fish farms are fine. It's the ones the gov'ts allow to screw up the works that aren't. Gov'ts have been obfuscating and doing little about the problems. As long as the gov'ts allow sloppy aquaculture, there will be sloppy aquaculture.don't want the fish farms? Don't buy farmed fish. If people didn't buy the damn crap, then they would close down.
#18
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy
There's not much bigger pressure one could bring onto the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans than to have the entire world focused on how crappy a job it does.Yep, that's about it. No demand, no supply necessary.
I'm not sure if we want to start hauling out a bunch of "causes" during the Olympics...isn't one of the objectives supposed to be that we "look good" in the eyes of the world? Jeez, we may want to sweep the fish farm thing under the rug until the media folks all go home.
#19
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG
True enough. I wuz just thinkin' about the "national embarassment factor." Isn't the Olympics a time to be proud? There's not much bigger pressure one could bring onto the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans than to have the entire world focused on how crappy a job it does.
#20
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy
After all the squabbling in the newsmedia about digging the true cost of them out of the gov't? The obvious bigotry of the IOC (women's ski-jumping. The IOC blatantly said that women weren't good enough) hitting the news? lol FunnyTrue enough. I wuz just thinkin' about the "national embarassment factor." Isn't the Olympics a time to be proud?
#21
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG
Well actually, I was thinking about Canada. The IOC can take care of their own embarrassments...they seem to be pretty good at creating them! After all the squabbling in the newsmedia about digging the true cost of them out of the gov't? The obvious bigotry of the IOC (women's ski-jumping. The IOC blatantly said that women weren't good enough) hitting the news? lol Funny
#22
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy
Like I said, all the squabbling that's gone on because the gov'ts refuse to publish the real costs of the Olys?Well actually, I was thinking about Canada. The IOC can take care of their own embarrassments...they seem to be pretty good at creating them!
#23
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG
They can't keep up with the accounting right now...those snow totin' trucks and helicopters don't come cheap. The final tally is going to take time, and we'll never see the final number - it'll be buried deeper than a novice skier in an avalanche.Like I said, all the squabbling that's gone on because the gov'ts refuse to publish the real costs of the Olys?
#24
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy
Yeah, they may have to hire Elizabeth Cull and Glen Clark on an interim basis to find out how you can "lose" a hundred million w/o anyone noticing..................They can't keep up with the accounting right now...those snow totin' trucks and helicopters don't come cheap. The final tally is going to take time, and we'll never see the final number - it'll be buried deeper than a novice skier in an avalanche.
#25
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 11th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
Their consulting fees would be peanuts in the overall picture. And they could be buried in the confusion too! (Their fees, not them personally)...Yeah, they may have to hire Elizabeth Cull and Glen Clark on an interim basis to find out how you can "lose" a hundred million w/o anyone noticing..................
#26
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 13th, 2010
Alexandra Morton is a poor scientist. She started out with the theory that fish farms are bad and then manipulates the data to confirm her theory. To date not a single farmed fish has been introduced to the ocean with lice attached. They all come from the wild. Long before fish farms were invented I can remember catching salmon with dozens of lice attached.
The real reason the anti fish farm crowd is so happy that the supremes decided that fish farms should be a federal responsibility instead of provincial is that Fed Fish has a track record of destroying every fishery they ever miss-managed. Their goal is to eliminate any real jobs on the coast. For some reason they never complain about the commercial sports fishery that has sprouted up in this area, even though it is poorly regulated,poorly paid,creates a huge carbon footprint and is devastating to wild fish populations. Having worked on the mid coast/Johnstone Straights area most of my life I have noticed the decline in both fish stocks and bear population since all the fish camps and ecco tourism camps started infesting the area although I have no hard data to prove the connection. Just an on the ground observation.
The real reason the anti fish farm crowd is so happy that the supremes decided that fish farms should be a federal responsibility instead of provincial is that Fed Fish has a track record of destroying every fishery they ever miss-managed. Their goal is to eliminate any real jobs on the coast. For some reason they never complain about the commercial sports fishery that has sprouted up in this area, even though it is poorly regulated,poorly paid,creates a huge carbon footprint and is devastating to wild fish populations. Having worked on the mid coast/Johnstone Straights area most of my life I have noticed the decline in both fish stocks and bear population since all the fish camps and ecco tourism camps started infesting the area although I have no hard data to prove the connection. Just an on the ground observation.
#27
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 13th, 2010
Sure, why don't we hold protests for every thing that is wrong with our society. Take the spotlight off the athletes. Who cares about them anyway - they are just pawns of the IOC and all the years of dedication and hard work mean nothing. They don't deserve their moment to shine, their moment in the sun. It is far more important that we make as much noise as we can about farmed salmon, hydro electric projects, the downtown Eastside and on and on and on.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
#28
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 22nd, 2010
Taxslave, you make some good points regarding Alexandra Morton's research. Salmon Farming produces just as healthy of fish as wild fish. There are multiple ways the farmers work to keep feed from falling to the bottom with the use of camera's, workers are able to constantly monitor when they need to go in and out the left over feed.
Wild salmon are definitely under pressure. Farmed salmon can helo to alleviate this growing demand.
Farmed salmon are treated for sea lice with high tech cameras, which watch for feed and waste, when anyone of these passy by a camera someone goes and cleans it out. This is done to ensure there are suitable measures being taken for the wild habitat.
Wild salmon are definitely under pressure. Farmed salmon can helo to alleviate this growing demand.
Farmed salmon are treated for sea lice with high tech cameras, which watch for feed and waste, when anyone of these passy by a camera someone goes and cleans it out. This is done to ensure there are suitable measures being taken for the wild habitat.
#29
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 22nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by waterways
Then why is the flesh so soft mushy and muddy tasting?Salmon Farming produces just as healthy of fish as wild fish.
Why are there traces of antibiotics, fungicides, pesticides and growth hormones in the flesh of so many farmed animals?
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Quote: Originally Posted by waterways
Workers are paid minimum wage and do as little as possible-Plus I have never met a fish farm employee who would eat the stuff they are paid to raise.There are multiple ways the farmers work to keep feed from falling to the bottom with the use of camera's, workers are able to constantly monitor when they need to go in and out the left over feed.
Quote: Originally Posted by waterways
Taking lovely little pictures doesn't remove Sea Lice infestations from the ocean-the same Sea Lice that attack wild Salmon Smolts.Farmed salmon are treated for sea lice with high tech cameras, which watch for feed and waste, when anyone of these passy by a camera someone goes and cleans it out. This is done to ensure there are suitable measures being taken for the wild habitat.
And the idea that someone is removing lice from individual fish is downright idiocy.
#30
Re: Important Rally During YVR Olympics-For Wild Salmon
Feb 22nd, 2010
Hi Bill,please allow me to introduce myself,a fish farm worker that makes more than minimum wage and eats the fish.I have to admit,they are char,not salmon,but they eat the same feed,and a hell of a lot more of it. But since I,m from the east,i guess my taste buds aren't as refined as yours.
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