Joni Mitchell tells the truth
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
I guess Joni's in need of some attention.
I like her earlier music, but generally, people with talent don't need to attack others.
No regrets, coyote, we just come from different sets of circumstance.
I like her earlier music, but generally, people with talent don't need to attack others.
No regrets, coyote, we just come from different sets of circumstance.
I like Joni, but I would hardly think that she doesn't have her own faults. She even hinted in "Blue" about a mistake she had made in her life.
What was that about residents of glass houses throwing rocks?
Not that I'm a big fan of Dylan, but I'm just pointing out that no-opne's perfect. If dylan plagiarized, someone should nail him for it. And so what if Grace, Janice, etc. got drunk and slept with people. It's a fame thing, isn't it?
What was that about residents of glass houses throwing rocks?
Not that I'm a big fan of Dylan, but I'm just pointing out that no-opne's perfect. If dylan plagiarized, someone should nail him for it. And so what if Grace, Janice, etc. got drunk and slept with people. It's a fame thing, isn't it?
Interesting. Bob Dylan a liar and a thief.
(Reuters) - A "poem" purportedly written by a teenage Bob Dylan and up for auction at Christie's is actually a song written by the late Canadian country singer Hank Snow, the auction house said on Wednesday.
(Reuters) - A "poem" purportedly written by a teenage Bob Dylan and up for auction at Christie's is actually a song written by the late Canadian country singer Hank Snow, the auction house said on Wednesday.
I was talking about Mitchel, but if you want to take ownership of the statement, be my guest.
Like I said, everyone is a hypocrite at some point. lol
So do you have an instance that shows Mitchell to be a hypocrite? Or are you just snivelling about other people, as usual?
Wow poor Joni seems a wee bit bitter in her older years. I think she may be right about Mr. Zimmerman but saying so is somewhat classless.
Then again I guess I don't really give a fiddler's fig what people think of me and if I'd had her success maybe I'd care as little about it as she seems to.
Then again I guess I don't really give a fiddler's fig what people think of me and if I'd had her success maybe I'd care as little about it as she seems to.
Joni wrote enough songs that went on to be number one hits that I wouldn't call her bitterness hypocrisy. She can walk the walk.
I'm sure that Grace, Dylan, and especially Janis don't really give a fiddler's fig either. lol
I don't think I would call her a hypocrite. Dylan did take credit for a song, "Little Buddy" Hank Snow wrote before Dylan was born.
I don't know of any similar complaint against Joni Mitchell
Well of course but Mr Howell stole the royalties. He was Berry Gordy, Minnow style.
I haven't run across any other complete songs that Dylan stole but he has certainly played loose with other people's work:
More Dylan Thefts
Henry Timrod made some news a couple of weeks ago by getting some of his lines quoted, or re-used, by Bob Dylan in his new album Modern Times. Timrod was a Confederate poet whose works are now in the public domain. Apparently Bob consciously or unconsciously snipped a few florid Victorian phrases and dropped them into some of the old-timey songs on his record. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that; it's not like he took whole passages and used them wholesale.
And yet Dylan, in his memoir Chronicles, comes pretty close to doing exactly that with other authors. Look carefully at this short passage:
Another example is from a book that I imagine Dylan knows well, Huckleberry Finn:
Now what are we to think of these "borrowings"? I know that borrowing and revising tunes and song lyrics is standard practice in folk and blues music, and Dylan has done plenty of that, quite openly, as have others. That doesn't bother me. But in a sustained piece of prose that is not meant to be sung or played, but taken as the author's own composition, it is not standard practice. In the instances given above, I think Bob comes pretty close to real plagiarism, and for all I know there are more instances in Chronicles yet to be identified. Frankly, as a Dylan fan from way back, I'm a little disappointed. Say it ain't so, Bob.
More Dylan Thefts
Henry Timrod made some news a couple of weeks ago by getting some of his lines quoted, or re-used, by Bob Dylan in his new album Modern Times. Timrod was a Confederate poet whose works are now in the public domain. Apparently Bob consciously or unconsciously snipped a few florid Victorian phrases and dropped them into some of the old-timey songs on his record. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that; it's not like he took whole passages and used them wholesale.
And yet Dylan, in his memoir Chronicles, comes pretty close to doing exactly that with other authors. Look carefully at this short passage:
Walking back to the main house, I caught a glimpse of the sea through the leafy boughs of the pines. I wasn't near it, but could feel the power beneath its colors. (Chronicles, p. 162)
Compare that to this longer passage from Marcel Proust's Within a Budding Grove, especially the passages in italics:But when, Mme. de Ville-parisis’s carriage having reached high ground, I caught a glimpse of the sea through the leafy boughs of trees, then no doubt at such a distance those temporal details which had set the sea, as it were, apart from nature and history disappeared ... But on the other hand I was no longer near enough to the sea which seemed to me not a living thing now, but fixed; I no longer felt any power beneath its colours, spread like those of a picture among the leaves, through which it appeared as inconsistent as the sky and only of an intenser blue.
I don't think there can be any doubt that Bob had to have consciously taken these sentences and, with some revision, passed them off as his own.Another example is from a book that I imagine Dylan knows well, Huckleberry Finn:
Every night we passed towns, some of them away up on black hillsides, nothing but just a shiny bed of lights; not a house could you see. ... There warn't a sound there; everybody was asleep.
And now look at Chronicles, p. 165:One night when everyone was asleep and I was sitting at the kitchen table, nothing on the hillside but a shiny bed of lights ...
My last exhibit (a less exact quote) comes from a book called Really the Blues (1946) by Mezz Mezzrow and Bernard Wolfe, in which a hipster introduces "his chick" to Mezzrow:Baby this that powerful man with that good grass that'll make you tip through the highways and byways like a Maltese kitten. Mezz, this is my new dinner and she's a solid viper.
And now, part of Dylan's description of his friend Ray's girl, Chloe Kiel:She was cool as pie, hip from head to toe, a Maltese kitten, a solid viper — always hit the nail on the head. I don't know how much weed she smoked, but a lot. (Chronicles, p. 102)
And later in Really the Blues, a black man was "sitting there actually talking to a white woman cool as pie."
Now what are we to think of these "borrowings"? I know that borrowing and revising tunes and song lyrics is standard practice in folk and blues music, and Dylan has done plenty of that, quite openly, as have others. That doesn't bother me. But in a sustained piece of prose that is not meant to be sung or played, but taken as the author's own composition, it is not standard practice. In the instances given above, I think Bob comes pretty close to real plagiarism, and for all I know there are more instances in Chronicles yet to be identified. Frankly, as a Dylan fan from way back, I'm a little disappointed. Say it ain't so, Bob.
Maybe Snow wrote it before Dylan was born, but Dylan recorded it before Snow copyrighted it. And the working WAS changed a bit.
