8th Fire

Mowich

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This series should become a required part of the curriculum for every school in Canada, IMHO.

The second episode aired on all CBC channels tonight and though I felt that I had a good understanding of the challenges facing native people, I didn't. I learned a lot tonight about residential schools; about the hundreds of missing and dead children, many who lie in unmarked graves; many who died trying to find a way home. 7 generations of native children were taken from their families and put in residential schools. I know that number had never really hit home before but it did when I put it in the context of my own family and how it would have been affected by such a policy.

But 8th Fire is about much more than residential schools, it is the story of native people all across our land who have made good lives for themselves and who are in turn working to inspire other Canadians, native and 'white' alike to work together for a better understanding of each other. It is about history and the real effect of treaties on so many facets of native people's lives.

I believe we can all learn something of value from this series and I highly recommend it.

CBC - 8th Fire - Home



 

damngrumpy

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I will watch it, sounds very interesting. The whole episode of those schools needs to
be told. It should be pointed out as well that some protestant denominations also did
their best to wipe out the native traditions and it sometimes is overshadowed by the
Catholic crimes.
I think this is also a result of when we try to segregate one group either by putting them
in a ghetto and giving them nothing, or putting them on a reserve (a ghetto) and giving
them something. Something be it land, and resources and exemptions from the the
laws we are all supposed to live by. The time has come to have a serious family
discussion as Canadians, and decide what we should do about the crimes and misdeeds
of the past. If we can resolve the issues, and actually take some defined actions we can
all move on natives and others, and begin a new relationships where no one is the victim.
This discussion will have to take place at some point or forever haunt us, in the future.
There are some who say just move on, and become defensive, that of course is nothing
more than a disguise for the way many feel, and instead of addressing the feeling some
just want to sweep it under the rug. Funny thing is the truth sooner or later always sees
the light of day.
 

Liberalman

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This is a series of four shows about the aboriginals who reside in Canada. This is the second one.

These shows are supposed to tell the descendents of the settlers who came to the new world that they were dishonest when they dealt with the indigenous people who just wanted to share the land and live in peace.
 

Mowich

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I will watch it, sounds very interesting. The whole episode of those schools needs to
be told. It should be pointed out as well that some protestant denominations also did
their best to wipe out the native traditions and it sometimes is overshadowed by the
Catholic crimes.
I think this is also a result of when we try to segregate one group either by putting them
in a ghetto and giving them nothing, or putting them on a reserve (a ghetto) and giving
them something. Something be it land, and resources and exemptions from the the
laws we are all supposed to live by. The time has come to have a serious family
discussion as Canadians, and decide what we should do about the crimes and misdeeds
of the past. If we can resolve the issues, and actually take some defined actions we can
all move on natives and others, and begin a new relationships where no one is the victim.
This discussion will have to take place at some point or forever haunt us, in the future.
There are some who say just move on, and become defensive, that of course is nothing
more than a disguise for the way many feel, and instead of addressing the feeling some
just want to sweep it under the rug. Funny thing is the truth sooner or later always sees
the light of day.

I wish all Canadians felt that way, DG. Many of us have little understanding of the long-term affect of residential schools, and the policies of government which effectively controlled the lives of native people living on reserves.

In one seminar that presented a factual history of native people in Canada, those in attendance came to realize that the prejudices they held were based on an incomplete understanding of the challenges facing native people.

8th Fire will, I hope, open the minds of all who watch it.

These shows are supposed to tell the descendents of the settlers who came to the new world that they were dishonest when they dealt with the indigenous people who just wanted to share the land and live in peace.


I could not disagree more with you on this, liberalman. This show is designed to educate its viewers about the true history of native people in Canada and thereby, hopefully, remove many of the biases about native people that still exist in Canada today.


 

CDNBear

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I've been extremely busy Mowich, so I haven't seen it Mowich. But thanks for the heads up, I'll try and check it out and get back to you with an informed opinion.
 

Mowich

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I've been extremely busy Mowich, so I haven't seen it Mowich. But thanks for the heads up, I'll try and check it out and get back to you with an informed opinion.

I thought you might be - busy that is - Bear so thanks for replying. If you can't catch it on TV, I believe you can watch it online and there is a lot of info on the website which I included in my original post. Take care.
 

Durry

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I really think its time the Indians got over it and moved on.
So the white guy made mistakes, but so did the Indians.
Often in the past there would be tribes of 3000 Indians and then plaque would come along and wipe them out and leave only about 300 living..
All this has now changed, and it wasn't because the Indians made medical progress in their teepees..

The white guy has also brought a better quality of life for the Indians even tho it is not to our standards, it is still much better than they would have provided for themselves had they been left to look after themselves.

The other thing is that even tho the white guy made a very bad mistake with the residential schools, he did it with the intentions of helping the Indians. He did not do it maliciously.
The indians did a very poor job of looking after their new born and young. The mortality rate was extremely high amoungst the young, most died from starvation or they froze to death. Non of this is ever mentioned. Ok, so it was wrong what the white man did, he admitted it. BUT, from this bad, there was also some good that came out of it. Many of the Indians did get a good education and many DID become lawyers etc so that now they CAN help their people.

But do you ever hear an Indian say some good did come out this bad mistake ???? No, it's the same old, same old,,,,it's the white guys fault!!!
Sorry, but I'm one dude that is getting very tired of hearing this same ol song from the Indians. Time to move on and take responsibility for your own actions and let the past reside in the history books!!
 

L Gilbert

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I really think its time the Indians got over it and moved on.
Many have.
So the white guy made mistakes, but so did the Indians.
No-one's perfect.
Often in the past there would be tribes of 3000 Indians and then plaque would come along and wipe them out and leave only about 300 living..
lol Plagues brought by Europeans. If anything wiped out hundreds of natives it was lack of food during harsh winters and that sort of thing.
All this has now changed, and it wasn't because the Indians made medical progress in their teepees.
Most of the time they didn't need to. At least until the Europeans started bringing European diseases over. Natives had no immunity or resistance to the new virii, bacteria, etc.

The white guy has also brought a better quality of life for the Indians even tho it is not to our standards, it is still much better than they would have provided for themselves had they been left to look after themselves.
In some ways. In other ways, not. North America was pretty stable before Europeans came. That arriva knocked all kinds of stuff out of balance.

The other thing is that even tho the white guy made a very bad mistake with the residential schools, he did it with the intentions of helping the Indians. He did not do it maliciously.
Ah, so all the pedophilia was not malicious? It was an accident? A mistake?
The indians did a very poor job of looking after their new born and young. The mortality rate was extremely high amoungst the young, most died from starvation or they froze to death. Non of this is ever mentioned.
Perhaps because there's no evidence for this claim?
Ok, so it was wrong what the white man did, he admitted it. BUT, from this bad, there was also some good that came out of it. Many of the Indians did get a good education and many DID become lawyers etc so that now they CAN help their people.
Did they need lawyers and need to know the 3 R's in the pre-Columbian era? No. They knew how to live and survived quite well back then.

But do you ever hear an Indian say some good did come out this bad mistake ????
Actually I do.
No, it's the same old, same old,,,,it's the white guys fault!!!
That's not entirely true.
Sorry, but I'm one dude that is getting very tired of hearing this same ol song from the Indians. Time to move on and take responsibility for your own actions and let the past reside in the history books!!
Many are doing just that. But if you think all natives just sit around on park benches, drink cheap booze, and whine about the white-eyes, then go right ahead.
 

CDNBear

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I thought you might be - busy that is - Bear so thanks for replying. If you can't catch it on TV, I believe you can watch it online and there is a lot of info on the website which I included in my original post. Take care.
I'm watching the first episode now. So far I like it. There are opinions I question though. There's a little to much finger pointing for my liking.

I really think its time the Indians got over it and moved on.
So the white guy made mistakes, but so did the Indians.
Often in the past there would be tribes of 3000 Indians and then plaque would come along and wipe them out and leave only about 300 living..
All this has now changed, and it wasn't because the Indians made medical progress in their teepees..

The white guy has also brought a better quality of life for the Indians even tho it is not to our standards, it is still much better than they would have provided for themselves had they been left to look after themselves.

The other thing is that even tho the white guy made a very bad mistake with the residential schools, he did it with the intentions of helping the Indians. He did not do it maliciously.
The indians did a very poor job of looking after their new born and young. The mortality rate was extremely high amoungst the young, most died from starvation or they froze to death. Non of this is ever mentioned. Ok, so it was wrong what the white man did, he admitted it. BUT, from this bad, there was also some good that came out of it. Many of the Indians did get a good education and many DID become lawyers etc so that now they CAN help their people.

But do you ever hear an Indian say some good did come out this bad mistake ???? No, it's the same old, same old,,,,it's the white guys fault!!!
Sorry, but I'm one dude that is getting very tired of hearing this same ol song from the Indians. Time to move on and take responsibility for your own actions and let the past reside in the history books!!
Yer funny.
 

Durry

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? Did they need lawyers and need to know the 3 R's in the pre-Columbian era? No. They knew how to live and survived quite well back then.
.
It is obvious you have bought into the native propaganda. There was plaques in NA before the white man came, only Indians and their sympotizers say there was none.
I suppose your one of those that think the natives should carry on with there way of life the way it was before the whiteman came to NA. You live in a dream world!!
 

CDNBear

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It is obvious you have bought into the native propaganda. There was plaques in NA before the white man came, only Indians and their sympotizers say there was none.
Can you provide some intel on that then?

I suppose your one of those that think the natives should carry on with there way of life the way it was before the whiteman came to NA.
I am. But it's nearly impossible to do on any great scale.

You live in a dream world!!
You're assumption of his answer aside, it would be no different than the dream world you live in. Like I said, yer funny.
 

Durry

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You're assumption of his answer aside, it would be no different than the dream world you live in. Like I said, yer funny.
Well at least I pay for my dream world, but unfortunately I also have to pay for your dream world as well.
I guess when your on welfare you all have similar mentalities!!
 

CDNBear

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Well at least I pay for my dream world, but unfortunately I also have to pay for your dream world as well.
I guess when your on welfare you all have similar mentalities!!
So in other words, no, you can't provide any material to support your claim of pre contact plagues.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear.
 

Mowich

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I really think its time the Indians got over it and moved on.

I would like to see how quickly you might 'get over it' had 7 generations of your family been subjected to the abuse of residential schools, Durry - just think about that for a moment - 7 generations, it might put things in a better perspective for you. The last residential school didn't close until 1996.

So the white guy made mistakes, but so did the Indians.
It is not so much about the 'mistakes' as it is about all Canadians learning about what went on in residential schools and the long-term effects on the people.

Often in the past there would be tribes of 3000 Indians and then plaque would come along and wipe them out and leave only about 300 living..
All this has now changed, and it wasn't because the Indians made medical progress in their teepees..
And for all the 'medical progress' native reserves are still chronically underfunded as compared to urban areas of Canada.

The white guy has also brought a better quality of life for the Indians even tho it is not to our standards, it is still much better than they would have provided for themselves had they been left to look after themselves.
Go and visit some of the reserves and then state that they have a 'better quality of life'.

The other thing is that even tho the white guy made a very bad mistake with the residential schools, he did it with the intentions of helping the Indians. He did not do it maliciously.
Residential schools set out to make the Indian into a white person. How that was accomplished was left up to the people who ran them and the abuses were rampant. How would you feel if you knew that a members of your family had been subject to sustained abuse simply because they were not white.

The indians did a very poor job of looking after their new born and young. The mortality rate was extremely high amoungst the young, most died from starvation or they froze to death. Non of this is ever mentioned. Ok, so it was wrong what the white man did, he admitted it. BUT, from this bad, there was also some good that came out of it. Many of the Indians did get a good education and many DID become lawyers etc so that now they CAN help their people.
Yes there are many success stories now and I wish we heard about them more than we do but good news stories about natives rarely make the airwaves and for every success story there are hundreds of that are simply appalling.

But do you ever hear an Indian say some good did come out this bad mistake ???? No, it's the same old, same old,,,,it's the white guys fault!!!
What good can come out of a system that yanks kids from their families, shears their hair, tells them they can only speak a language they know nothing about and punishes then when they don't, starves them, abuses them and then dumps them in unmarked graves - please tell me.

Sorry, but I'm one dude that is getting very tired of hearing this same ol song from the Indians. Time to move on and take responsibility for your own actions and let the past reside in the history books!!
Well Durry, you are one dude that seriously needs to attend at least one truth and reconciliation conference, IMHO.

I'm watching the first episode now. So far I like it. There are opinions I question though. There's a little to much finger pointing for my liking.
Personally Bear, I like the second episode a lot more as it started to get into more of the real history and less of the 'finger pointing.' I especially liked the segment which explained about how the government literally ruled the lives of natives form birth to death. Things are changing slowly but more change needs to take place.
 

CDNBear

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Personally Bear, I like the second episode a lot more as it started to get into more of the real history and less of the 'finger pointing.' I especially liked the segment which explained about how the government literally ruled the lives of natives form birth to death. Things are changing slowly but more change needs to take place.
Ya I watched it, and I agree, but I still see some blame game going on. I like the message that we have to work at the change too.

I'm looking forward to the next episode.

It took me until the second episode to recognize the host, lol, since I didn't pay attention to the credits. The Big Wabber is a neat guy, I've met him a couple times. I like him and his music.

My favourite...

Wab Kinew - Heroes - YouTube
 
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Mowich

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The final episode of 8th Fire aired on CBC last night. Since then I have been thinking about what I learned from the series.

First and foremost in my mind is the fact that there are many bands across our country who have turned the tide on poverty and unemployment by providing their communities with good sound leadership and much improved quality of life. The native community certainly has no paucity of smart, financially astute business people who retain a strong attachment to their community and its values.

I learned that, IMHO, our government has no choice but to reform the Indian Act - it is draconian and treats native people like children.

In addition, I discovered many natives eschew dwelling on the past, preferring to focus on the future while working to improve life in their communities.


I found the series informative and enlightening, for the most part, and give a thumbs up to CBC.