A new way to teach kids music

[Omicron]

I was doing the usual... walking down the street thinking about things... and I got an idea.

Yeah we know that every school has a band-class, but what about the others?

What if we did something like this:

We get the kids to pick up a guitar or an instrument, and show them how to play *one* note.

We tell them to play that note only when the Conductor points at them.

It means a huge orchestra with more than a dozen guitar holders, mote than a dozen trumpeters, more than a dozen flutists, more that a dozen tromboners...

They get trained to play their one note only when the conductor points his wand at them.

Of course to have it sound good some practice will be required, but can you see how a whole piece could be played that way... each instrument holder playing only one note when pointed to by the conductor.

It trains them to follow the conductor, and out of that some of the kids will discover they want to play more than one note.

What do you think?

 

[Ariadne]

Well ... if all the violinists are of equal ability, then does it really make sense to have 12 of them each play one note when one could do all 12 notes and it would sonnd the same? Furthermore, wouldn't it be terribly boring for anyone to be trained to play one note? That would last about 1 minute in terms of benefit to the musician. Am I missing something?

 

[TenPenny]

I think the conductor will need about 75 hands.

 

[Omicron]

Well ... if all the violinists are of equal ability, then does it really make sense to have 12 of them each play one note when one could do all 12 notes and it would sonnd the same? Furthermore, wouldn't it be terribly boring for anyone to be trained to play one note? That would last about 1 minute in terms of benefit to the musician. Am I missing something?

The point is to get totally non-musical kids to experience being in an orchestra.

I think the conductor will need about 75 hands.

I was thinking that.

What we need is a computerized conductor driven by software, such that the kids see an LED light in front of them telling them when to play their one note.

When it's red, they be quite.

When it starts blinking yellow it means get ready.

When it goes green it means play.

 

[Ariadne]

Thanks. I was thinking that the musicians knew what they were doing. If the musicians are brand new to the task, then one note at a time is a good start, and having them coordinate into an orchestra is also a cool idea ... but ... I think the entire process has to happen in a fairly short time or they will all lose interest.

 

[Omicron]

Thanks. I was thinking that the musicians knew what they were doing. If the musicians are brand new to the task, then one note at a time is a good start, and having them coordinate into an orchestra is also a cool idea ... but ... I think the entire process has to happen in a fairly short time or they will all lose interest.

Yeah... I was thinking they'd need to hear themselves playing a tune they'd recognize upon the first sitting.

 

[Ariadne]

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star has the same tune as the ABC song and Ba Ba Black Sheep. That's the tune to start with. I didn't realize that they were all the same until my daughter very matter of factly pointed it out to me.

 

[Omicron]

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star has the same tune as the ABC song and Ba Ba Black Sheep. That's the tune to start with. I didn't realize that they were all the same until my daughter very matter of factly pointed it out to me.

Good grief she's right... yeah... that's not a bad one to start with. Should be doable within the first session.

 

[YukonJack]

I saw an old movie about the life of Sigmund Romberg. In that movie Jose Ferrer, who plays Romberg, says near the end of the movie that a good conductor knows that he must stop conducting exactly at the same time when the musicians stop playing.

 

[cranky]

I think it could be a great idea, and the beauty of it is that it doesnt have to be done in every school. you could try it with 3 or 4 schools, then spread the word when its a success. Any idea how to get this started?

 

[YukonJack]

Speaking of "One Note", I was looking for the Ella Fitzgerald version, but I could not find it.

Shirley is not too shabby, though:

YouTube - ‪Shirley Bassey - Johnny One Note‬‏

Omicron, if your idea was not meant to be applied to singing, get the mods delete this post.

 

[petros]

In my day the kid with zero musical inclination played the cow bell or something they couldn't screw up and they were happy to be included.

 

[Omicron]

Omicron, if your idea was not meant to be applied to singing, get the mods delete this post.

That's fine, although most kids, even if they can't play an instrument, and carry a tune.

However, it might work for a bunch of kids who are tone-def... if they can remember their one-note between being pointed to.

I think the conductor will need about 75 hands.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it, and I don't think it would work - or make much sense for that matter - to try it with an orchestra of instruments, however, I think it would work with guitars.

Something like... a dozen kids with a dozen guitars, and you show each one a chord to hold, which they strum with a pick when pointed to.

Kids would rather learn to play a guitar anyway - it's more hip than a trumpet or a clarinet - plus when learning the guitar, it's common to start with some tune that can be rendered from one chord, so it's a more normal, natural way to get them rolling on the instrument, except in this case they're *starting* in a band-mode.

Crumb, come to think of it, how many tunes are based on 2, 3 and 4 chords.

Normally when learning the guitar, the trick is to learn to switch from one chord to the other, so there's that frustration-hump to get up-and-over as one practices and practices to learn how to do that while keeping the beat... but that's all based on the historical presumption that it's always going to be one person playing one guitar.

If you've got 2 kids, you pick out tunes based on two chords, which there are plenty of. If three kids, then pick out tunes based on three chords, etc.

You show each kid what chord to hold, and they strum their guitar when pointed to.

Et voila, they get the psychological kick of being in a guitar-band on their first sit-down, and because they're just holding one chord, they could start singing the vocals on top of it almost right away... if they can be trained to automatically strum when pointed to.

And because it's guitars, and not a mob of multiple orchestral instruments, it actually should sound pretty good right from the beginning.

And once they get the idea, they'll realize they can do that without a conductor... they just have to be coordinated... so think how much that could teach about cooperation.

 

[Corduroy]

Is this supposed to teach the kids something or do you just like ****ing with their heads?

 

[Ariadne]

I started learning piano at the age of 6. I still remember my first lesson. I learned to identify the middle C, and then I had to use my thumbs to play that note, alternating the thumbs and playing to a particular rhythm. From there, I learned the C scale and then all the rest. Violin starts the same way with the child learning the first note and how to manage the bow and so on.

 

[Omicron]

Is this supposed to teach the kids something or do you just like ****ing with their heads?

Huh?

It's a method to fast-track them into being able to render audible music right away without having to go through the frustrating initial start-up practice grind of learning how to do all the fingering before hearing a result.

Lots of kids don't get into music because they don't have the patience to go through that initial practice-stage.

This enables them to hear a result right away, but they don't get that short-cut to hearing a result without the initial practice-grind stage unless they *cooperate*, so it's a method to fast-track them into learning a guitar *and* it teaches cooperation.

I started learning piano at the age of 6. I still remember my first lesson. I learned to identify the middle C, and then I had to use my thumbs to play that note, alternating the thumbs and playing to a particular rhythm. From there, I learned the C scale and then all the rest. Violin starts the same way with the child learning the first note and how to manage the bow and so on.

Yeah, it always starts with middle C, even when not on keyboards. My first-instrument was trombone, and the first note taught was good ol' middle C.

But remember how frustrating it was as a kid to force yourself to learn that first note, and then that second note, and then that third note, before finally you get to hear a tune?

This method enables them to hear a tune upon first-sitting. They just have to hold one chord, and they can be rendering full tunes by just paying attention to the conductor.

 

[karrie]

I fail to see how this is any different than the way we already start out with mandatory music class. Bonk a xylophone, ring a bell, toot a recorder, strum a ukulele. It's typically one note, three tops, super simple stuff. By the time kids get to 'orchestra' age, if they haven't learned to put together more than that, it's because they have zero musical aptitude, and aren't going to carry on anyway. What you're suggesting sounds like making the kid a brainless cog in a musical wheel, not like teaching.

 

[Omicron]

I fail to see how this is any different than the way we already start out with mandatory music class. Bonk a xylophone, ring a bell, toot a recorder, strum a ukulele. It's typically one note, three tops, super simple stuff. By the time kids get to 'orchestra' age, if they haven't learned to put together more than that, it's because they have zero musical aptitude, and aren't going to carry on anyway. What you're suggesting sounds like making the kid a brainless cog in a musical wheel, not like teaching.

Because - maybe it wasn't like this for you, but it was for me - those super-simple one-note tunes they start with are *dumb*.

I distinctly remember thinking exactly that when learning my first instrument.

I'd been to listening to stuff like Stravinsky's Firebird suit from the age of three, and I could sing all the pop-songs of the day by the time I was five. The church had me on stage before I was in the first grade.

I pestered my parents to let me learn an instrument, and I chose trombone because something didn't sound quite right about the other instruments. (I found out later it's because I have perfect-pitch and my ear was objecting to the tempering done to keyboards and wind instruments in order to enable them to do key-changes without re-tuning the instrument... but with the trombone, because it's a slide instrument, it was possible to hit every note perfectly.)

I sat down with some other kids my age, and I was nauseated by the stuff they were starting us with, and I wasn't the only one.

Because I had more patience than most kids I stuck with it, but a lot of guys dropped out, not because they didn't really want to learn to play, but because the tunes we were being started with were just so lame-brained dumb.

In any case, like I said already, the method I'm talking about wouldn't work very well for wind and brass instruments, but it should for guitar.

Two or three friends want to play a pop-tune right off the bat, so they each get a guitar, they pick which of the two or three chords each will do, and they play their chord when that chord comes up in the turn.

You say it would turn them into automatons?

Notice how if they understand how to coordinate they don't need a conductor, so it's not making them into automaton cogs in a machine... it teaches cooperation.

And now that they're actually getting the satisfaction of hearing themselves play good music, that serves as motivation for them to start learning other chords and how to switch while keeping the beat, as individuals.

 

[Ariadne]

Huh?

It's a method to fast-track them into being able to render audible music right away without having to go through the frustrating initial start-up practice grind of learning how to do all the fingering before hearing a result.

Lots of kids don't get into music because they don't have the patience to go through that initial practice-stage.

This enables them to hear a result right away, but they don't get that short-cut to hearing a result without the initial practice-grind stage unless they *cooperate*, so it's a method to fast-track them into learning a guitar *and* it teaches cooperation.



Yeah, it always starts with middle C, even when not on keyboards. My first-instrument was trombone, and the first note taught was good ol' middle C.

But remember how frustrating it was as a kid to force yourself to learn that first note, and then that second note, and then that third note, before finally you get to hear a tune?

This method enables them to hear a tune upon first-sitting. They just have to hold one chord, and they can be rendering full tunes by just paying attention to the conductor.

I think that children today, moreso than in the past, want or need instant gratification. When I learned piano, I was eager and interested so for me, toodling around the keyboard was something I wanted to do. I certainly remember warm summer days when I would rather have been running around playing kick the can, but that wasn't the norm. I stuck with it all the way to grade 10 Royal Conservatory ... a very worthwhile use of time in retrospect.

I was recently sitting at the piano with my 3 year old niece at her birthday party. I played twinkle twinkle and taught her how to play one note for every two of mine. I then had her use two fingers to alternate between two notes for every two I played. She picked it up right away. One on one instruction is the same as with any subject ... children learn more quickly and gain that gratification of hearing music or having success ... reinforcing the effort.

I fail to see how this is any different than the way we already start out with mandatory music class. Bonk a xylophone, ring a bell, toot a recorder, strum a ukulele. It's typically one note, three tops, super simple stuff. By the time kids get to 'orchestra' age, if they haven't learned to put together more than that, it's because they have zero musical aptitude, and aren't going to carry on anyway. What you're suggesting sounds like making the kid a brainless cog in a musical wheel, not like teaching.

Suzucki violin has solo and group lessons from the beginning, and orchestra is introduced early. Children start violin at the age of 4 and audition for the junior philharmonic orchestra by the time they are 7 or 8 years old.

I think the idea is more to make a tune with one note each ... it would teach the importance of timing, cooperation, coordinating a group and could inspire children to continue with music training.

I think a lot of those lame brain tunes are for the purpose of developing technique ... an all important factor when playing more complex tunes.

 

[Omicron]

I think that children today, moreso than in the past, want or need instant gratification.

I was listening to a CBC report a couple days ago, and that's *exactly* what they were saying.

Everyone from Gen-X to younger has a neurological thing about instant gratification, and the report consisted of a discussion among experts as to why it might be, because it's not an imaginary phenomena; it's measurable in laboratory controlled phycho-neurological experiments.

They're not exactly sure what's doing it. The easy-offhand notions of too much TV were brushed away because it's not seen in earlier generations who had easy access to TV. It's something else.

Whatever the cause, it's a fact that young people people today do not have the ability to postpone-reward the way earlier generations did.

When I learned piano, I was eager and interested so for me, toodling around the keyboard was something I wanted to do. I certainly remember warm summer days when I would rather have been running around playing kick the can, but that wasn't the norm. I stuck with it all the way to grade 10 Royal Conservatory ... a very worthwhile use of time in retrospect.

Indeed.

I was recently sitting at the piano with my 3 year old niece at her birthday party. I played twinkle twinkle and taught her how to play one note for every two of mine. I then had her use two fingers to alternate between two notes for every two I played. She picked it up right away. One on one instruction is the same as with any subject ... children learn more quickly and gain that gratification of hearing music or having success ... reinforcing the effort.

Yeah... nothing beats one-on-one instruction, because if they can't get gratification from the quality of the tunes they can plunk out when starting, they can at least get it in the form of praise and encouragement from the coach.