Creation or Evolution?

August 8th, 2007, 09:55 PM

Yes it does as an alternative view!

Is class not a place to learn from comparisons, or is it all one thought, one way and all other views are out?
Are the students brain dead to any other possibilities?

Peace>>>AJ

August 9th, 2007, 01:25 AM

Though I don't know if it's an alternative view or not I don't think it should be taught in the classroom. What the heck is Church for?

AJ did you see this?

African fossils paint new picture of evolution, casting doubt on the evolution of our ancestors

Aug 08, 2007 03:06 PM
Associated Press
WASHINGTON — Surprising research based on two African fossils suggests our family tree is more like a wayward bush with stubby branches, challenging what had been common thinking on how early humans evolved.
Continued:
http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/244399

August 9th, 2007, 07:05 AM

Sane Rational possibilities yes . Insane scriptural maybes no . But what we are discussing is not the origin of the universe but the way mankind came into it and the best possible explanation we have for that is evolution . If you teach creationism you might as well tell them that storks bring babies.

August 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM

Very interesting story! The Kenyan fossils are of homo habilis who is thought to be the ancestor of the later homo-erectus . Theories abound but it is possible that because of the larger skull size it may still be a homo-erectus . The other idea is that some homo- habilis populations evolved into homo-erectus while isolated populations remained as they were since evolution relies on natural selection as a mechanism diverse populations over time could take different paths . Recently an expedition to the Congo uncovered a ecosystem in the rain-forest that has been isolated for 10000 years and most of the animals in that ecosystem are a different species to their known counterparts .

August 9th, 2007, 07:27 AM

I think it is this sort of thing that really sets science and religion apart. This shakes up the ideas that become a little too accepted without being proven and in so doing, set about a whole new round of searching and questioning old data with new to find the truth or as much as can be revealed at the time.

I heard something about that expedition to the Congo but I lost the article and it has slipped my mind since. I remember reading somewhere too that Neanderthals and were a fracture of the tree and rather than dying out, were assimilated through interbreeding but genetics over took through time and the physical characteristics were muted while still providing the odd appearance here and there.

That seemed to make a lot of sense to me at the time.

August 9th, 2007, 07:32 AM

That is what sets science apart from religion there is no belief in science , all theories are evaluated on their own merits and accepted if and only if there is a lot of proof . And within a theory concepts and ideas constantly change as more and more evidence becomes apparent .
As Far as i remember that is the common idea about Neanderthals , they coexisted with our ancient ancestors and were either bred out of killed out . The jury is still out on weather our ancestors made love or made war LOL

August 9th, 2007, 10:46 AM

Interesting read. Which leads me to say that discovery is great and good, but still the God creation theory holds to me anyways a more creditable way of the beginnings of all things.

It makes no differences to me when, where or how mankind came about to be, for that is up to the scientists to ponder, but for this simpleton, faith that God is the creator is sufficient.

I will hold this view with an open mind, allowing those who have a different view to hold to theirs, I will respect those views.

Peace>>>AJ

August 9th, 2007, 06:23 PM

I’m writing this because of some rather rude comments that I’ve received…

I am not a puss…and I will come looking for you if ya mess with my family…and my family will come looking for you if you need correction…or should I just bury all yall in the corn field and be done with it...?

Pleased be advised that the things I write “no-matter” how unbelievable…are in fact very true accounts…even though I sometimes write with two pens (creationisum & evolution)...

Please understand that we are all individuals and “new truths are seldom popular”…

I relate them because I want you to know that “I love you all” and I believe that you should be informed…more so in this day and time than any other…

…For Those that have not already experienced Star Trek...Live, Time Travel, living without aging or working and associating with other times and places...and even more...!

Meaning that there are more than just a few people within our time that have abilities and expertise that you might find hard to believe…sure its been said before…and “!help!” !I’m one of them…!

Please remember that because something is not signed by Einstein or the FDA, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s false…

Concerning the words “Creation or Evolution” they are only references added to…added to…
added to…

A World is Created…at some point expedient “Man is introduced to that world”…Perhaps he enters in 1942 with a predetermined past already in placement to accommodate his presence…to include evolution, creationism and even out side contacts to instruct him…

Possibly others entered at earlier times or later times…

Maybe when we die, we return to another time and place within our lives… Not knowing that we died…and this goes on and on…And sometimes death (a moment of exchange) is not within the twinkling of an eye and after a few times of conscious encounters in this way…we began to understand…and we understand even more as we discover others of like acquaintance…

Mmost that come to this knowledge
However true the above related explanation of a normal death…Most that come to this knowledge tend to keep the information…and the things that go with it to themselves…as a general rule of thumb…

There are a few calendars within our world cultures that have predicted the end of the world as we know it…that end being: 12 December 2012…

Concerning the above paragraph…Please read the following:

I was hit by a car and was air born for 46 ft while crossing at an intersection in 1955… Time stopped about me (I was 10 years of age)…I was suspended about 10 ft in the air…I couldn’t move but I could see…an angel’s voice came to me loud and clear saying: “You are in judgment”…a few minutes past and the angel’s voice returned saying: “You are not in judgment but for all practical purposes you are dead”…I then ask: “Are you an angel”?...The male voice of authority replied: “Something like that, I,m in clerical…”

He said I have only one position available and that is an immortal female of 8 years of age…and she would remain 8 forever…however he said she is bored with her existence…

He said you can stay and continue as you were or you can accept a new life as the 8 year old girl…He encourage me to accept his offer of the 8 year old girl…but then said he didn’t want to intimidate me…and whatever choice that I made would be honored…

I did not want to be a girl…I was somewhat concerned about my parents…because he related that they had neglected my heritage…and I wasn’t sure what that meant…

So I chose to remain within the same timeline…At that moment he said OK your on your own…however I called to him saying: “I have an important question”…He acknowledge me and I said: How can I land on the street below without hurting myself?...He said: “You are all sprawled out in the air”…when I let you go, tuck your legs beneath you and slid in as though you were in a ball game…

At that moment time started again…immediately the pavement was slamming into me…I tucked my legs beneath me, sliding to a stop in the 4 lane intersection…

I tried to tell my parents but they didn’t believe…and actually I returned because I was worried about what might happen to them…and because the “clerical angel like person” had also remarked that they were thinking about discontinuing that time (as opposed to then)…

So if all this be true…what about global warming, evolution, creationism and yada! yada!

Here is the Why of the Reason…Man needs change to continue expediently…and without things to “light the fire” things can get very, very boring…

You have no idea of what has been created in our interest…or maybe you would rather live far into the future or maybe living in an old west movie might be just the thing…

And please remember! Because someone dies it doesn’t mean they are in parishment irreversible…

Remembering that the grass is always greener...on...the !!!!

August 9th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Saved by middle managment! I'm glad you still with us CMC.

August 9th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Quite a story CMC, and only you can tell it.

Based on what I have gathered from all the scriptures, and from secular worlds scholars, I find the bible to be rather complete in it's representation of who God is, and how He went about creation.

It all fits in perfect harmony, but takes understanding from God to decipher the gig-saw puzzle, piece by piece and to begin to see the big picture.

It is a complete picture and a furnished picture, one where a correction was made and mankind freed up to experience life without penalty of eternal annihilation.

Chance and time happen to all without regard to individual beliefs.

Peace>>>AJ

August 10th, 2007, 01:09 PM

A fiat is an authoritative decree or order, usually from somebody with the power to enforce it, and a divine one is one from a deity, as in the OT when god reportedly declared "Let there be light" and there was light.

August 11th, 2007, 07:53 AM

The Biblical account of Creation and the opposing theory of evolution are both scientific and religious. The difference between the Creationists and the Evolutionists theory is that one is an account from the Bible itself which will remain the same and never change, and the other claim is made by scientists. Once the claims have been made we can test these claims by using science. The ONLY difference is that one claim is made by God and one claim is made by man. The Bibles account will never change, the scientists account changes quite often. You ask the question, should creation be taught in public schools? I say yes! There is a lot of good solid scientific evidence for creation! It will probably save you, the taxpayer, some money too. You wouldn't have to update your text books as often! Creation is founded on the Christian religion and is religious, however evolution is founded on the Atheistic religion and is religious as well. You see, you have to BELIEVE that there is no God! We can not prove that there is or isn't! Evolution is the Atheists religion. If you had to describe how we got here without a God, you would be left with evolution! Evolution is how we got here if you believe that there is no God!

August 11th, 2007, 08:26 AM

Some would argue thats one and the same...

On another note,I don't think God has actually had anything published yet

August 11th, 2007, 10:17 AM

Oh there is ? What might that be ?


Right Keep the kids ignorant teaching them a theory that is based on no facts so that we can save on tax money . Hey I have an even dumber idea why not just get rid of schools period and send all the kids to learn at a Monastery !

Atheism is not a religion it's defined in the Webster's Online Dictionary As :
Someone who denies the existence of god.
While religion is :Institution to express belief in a divine power .
See how the two definitions are not compatible and never will be . Atheism is about free thought and expression . While religion is about faith in a divine being and the following and interpretation of his/her will .

Do you believe that Nessie does not exist exists ? how about big foot ? Zeus ?
There is no belief involved because belief without evidence is what is wrong with religion in the first place . The Idea of god existing is a theory brought forward by people and sold whole sale to sheep , there is no evidence for it which is why rational people reject it .


No Evolution is how we got here if you've ever read a biology book . The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming . The only reason people still reject it is because they have to give up their irrational beliefs to do it or modify them somehow . I don't have to believe in evolution the evidence for it is easily viewable at the natural history museum , you on the other hand have to believe in creation despite the scientific consensus . It's like someone trying to humm really loud so he won't hear a speaker system playing , you can believe what you want but do not try to mark it off as science because it is not , and do not try to compare your irrational beliefs with evolution seriously if your looked into it you'd realize they are not even in the same ball park when it comes up to evidence .

August 11th, 2007, 10:18 AM

He works in mysterious ways Doc , always gets other people to do his publishing and only visits them when no one else is around . LOL

August 11th, 2007, 10:25 AM

I might have been visited...dunno ..to be honest i'm still grasping with God and my interpratation of God.....I call it as i see it is all....when you write this:I have to say that religion and belief in any God or definition of Suchness is truly about free thought and especially expression

Think about it for a secound.....faith comes after even the minutest of investigations....no/yes.....

I love athiest for they force me to think and stay real....just saying...there is a grounding for me in your words Minority Observer and I truly respect you for taking the time here and doing what you do....

Meta
Dave

August 11th, 2007, 10:31 AM

Thank you

August 11th, 2007, 03:10 PM

I'm not sure it's worth responding to such massively ignorant foolishness, but in keeping with my general policy of fighting ignorance wherever I find it, I'll go a round with the newbie.

There's nothing scientific about the Biblical account of creation, and there's nothing religious about the theory of evolution. You're right that the Biblical account will never change, but that's only because the evidence doesn't matter to it and those who believe in it. That's what makes it unscientific. You're also right that we can test both claims with science, but when we do, the Biblical account comes out looking completely wrong, it doesn't even get the basic order of events right. It has light created before there are any light-generating objects, the earth existing before the sun appears, land plants appearing before sea life, birds appearing as the first creatures on land, it is wrong in every detail but the final one: humanity came at the end. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that supports the Biblical account of creation, and plenty that directly contradicts it.

The scientific account changes quite often because we keep finding new evidence that needs to be explained; that's just the nature of science, but the core of the theory of evolution itself hasn't fundamentally changed since Darwin first wrote it down. Evolution is not founded on any "Atheistic religion," there can be no such thing, that's a contradiction in terms. Evolution has no religious content. It is a wholly empirical theory that explains an enormous range of phenomena, it is predictive, testable, and, at least in principle, falsifiable. Those are the defining features of a good scientific theory. Evolution is one of our best-attested scientific theories, supported by multiple converging lines of evidence from many other scientific disciplines; nothing in biology makes sense without it.

You don't have to believe there's no god to understand and accept the theory of evolution, the theory says nothing about god's existence or non-existence, though it doesn't leave him with much to do. Faith doesn't enter into it, evolution is what the evidence records, for anybody with the wit to understand it. Given your obvious belief that there is a god, however, there's nothing inconsistent with postulating that evolution is the method he used to create us. It's not a very useful idea and doesn't have good odds in its favour, it's not a necessary hypothesis, but at least it's not demonstrably false the way the Biblical creation account is.

Evolution is how we got here--the evidence is overwhelming--whether you believe in god or not.