Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

eanassir

#1Nov 29th, 2008

Oceans and lakes on Mars
( Oceans, alleged ancient, and underground glciers )
First:

Glaciers have been discovered on Mars below a shield of rocks with some depth under the ground.

Such under-ground glaciers are located at latitudes of 35-60 in both the north and south hemispheres. Such latitudes are middle, neither polar nor equatorial.

The areas of these glaciers are very extensive.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro-20081120.html

Comment:
I think such glaciers are in fact lakes of liquid water; because Mars still has a very hot and active core. We here on earth have many water-springs and wells giving warm water because they are somewhat deep.

In Iraq there is such warm water-springs in Mosul city and in a nearby city called Hammam Alaliel. In addition, the water of wells is cold in summer and warm in winter: because it is moderate in temperature: so that in summer time it will be relatively cold, while in winter it will be relatively warm.

In some countries they use such criteria to make some conditioning in winter and summer; using some pipes that go to some considerable depth underground water; and bring this water out and circle it again; so as to moderate the temperature of house and offices, etc.

So how can that be while the internal part of Mars is still very hot? While the glaciers are present under the ground in middle regions, and yet it is ice, and moreover, this is so in the middle zones of both the south and north hemisphere: almost this is some liquid water, not ice.

Second:
A new discovery about Mars is the alleged past oceans that covered one third of the planet in the past.
--

The map of such past oceans is here:
http://uanews.org/system/files/images/dohm_fig2_top.preview.jpg

Put in mind such oceans may be present now on Mars. These oceans and the glaciers may in fact be on the surface: oceans, seas and lakes of water, but they have not ascertained this yet. This goes with the map of the distribution of the hydrogen on the first meter or so of the surface of Mars.

Third:
They intend to send some new rovers to Mars next year; this time may discover important discoveries, when they go near the mountainous area, where they may find water springs, streams and people on Mars; if they take lesson from the previous missions. Such mountains are covered with ice in their tops, so will all this ice vaporise? Will some of it percolate to the underground to come as water springs, water streams and rivers? Take it easy, and give us some water to drink

eanassir
--

Last edited by eanassir; Nov 29th, 2008 at 01:28 AM..

scratch

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 29th, 2008

This may or may not be true.

People no way, in my personal opinion.

darkbeaver

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 29th, 2008

Martians were likely stripped away with the trees and other life forms. The electrical etching seen over much of the surface indicates a very violent past but I guess we (earth) also went through such occurances and survived. So if there are survivors on Mars they would have to have hidden themselves before the atmosphere was stripped I guess.

eanassir

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

darkbeaver,
· Such beautiful planet like Mars with its clear atmosphere, day and night succession, seasons, years, the polar regions with ice, the ice on the tops of mountains, deserts with sandstorms, fog and clouds; this is a defective picture: there must be the liquid water there, and there are people in addition to all forms of life. Do you think God - be glorified - may leave such extensive planet with all such criteria (have just been discovered; others may not be discovered yet); while the earth: He filled it with crowdings of plants, animals and the four races of human beings: this generation alone count by billions?
· Electricity is everywhere in the universe: negative and positive charges; but I don't think the craters on Mars are due to any electricity.
· The atmosphere is there on Mars; it has not been stripped; it bears the clouds and the sandstorms and manifests the sunset afterglow.
eanassir
--

L Gilbert

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

lmao
Some of these comments are just more displays of the ignorance about scientific reality. Yes, the core of Mars is hot. Yes, ice melts when heated. The problem rests with water existing on the surface of Mars. It doesn't. The surface is simply too cold. eannasir is showing his ignorance when he assumes that the inside is hot and then there is a cold surface within a graduation in temperature. The core is hot, then as you near the surface you will find that it cools down to below freezing. Water would have to be travelling to the surface at extreme velocities in order to still be liquid when it reached the surface. It isn't happening.

Scientifically, eannasir might as well be relying on the Bugs Bunny Show for scientific information. It is just as realistic as his interpretation of the quran. And as far as people existing on Mars is concerned? Really, eannassir, get a grip. lmao

eanassir

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

lmao
Some of these comments are just more displays of the ignorance about scientific reality. Yes, the core of Mars is hot. Yes, ice melts when heated. The problem rests with water existing on the surface of Mars. It doesn't. The surface is simply too cold. eannasir is showing his ignorance when he assumes that the inside is hot and then there is a cold surface within a graduation in temperature. The core is hot, then as you near the surface you will find that it cools down to below freezing. Water would have to be travelling to the surface at extreme velocities in order to still be liquid when it reached the surface. It isn't happening.

Scientifically, eannasir might as well be relying on the Bugs Bunny Show for scientific information. It is just as realistic as his interpretation of the quran. And as far as people existing on Mars is concerned? Really, eannassir, get a grip. lmao

Things are in progress concerning Mars: every day there is a new progress: keep in mind what many said at the start: like "no water", then "the ice consists of CO2".

But now many things have been observed: the ice they became sure it is water ice.

Then they observed the clouds in the atmosphere of Mars; then they noticed the fog formation: which is a sort of precipitation of water. Then they said there is rain in the high altitude and the rain sublimated before reaching the surface.

Then they saw the hydrogen concentration on many middle parts of Mars in addition to the polar regions which indicates the water in any form. Then they saw the glaciers under the ground in some middle latitude in both the north and south hemisphere at latitudes between 35-60. Then they said there had been in the past oceans that covered 1/3 the surface of Mars.

Moreover, if you insist that there is no liquid water on the surface of Mars: couldn't the liquid water be in the underground of Mars? Because as much as you go deeper the temperature will be more hot.

While as regards the Quran: it is exalted, and cannot be surpassed.

Gilbert says something that the scientists have not claimed: I mean they say: Till now we have known so and so; but Gilbert says: this is fallacy about water and life on Mars.

Last edited by eanassir; Nov 30th, 2008 at 12:37 PM..

L Gilbert

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Things are in progress concerning Mars: every day there is a new progress: keep in mind what many said at the start: like no water, then the ice consists of CO2.
But now many things have been observed: the ice they became sure it is water ice.

So what? None of these new findings has said anything about liquid water. Ice is ice. And because previous hypotheses have been shown to be erroneous does not mean that any future hypothesis is any more factual.

Quote:

Then they observed the clouds in the atmosphere of Mars; then they noticed the fog formation: which is a sort of precipitation of water. Then they said there is rain in the high altitude and the rain sublimated before reaching the surface.

It was fog composed of ice crystals. And it wasn't "rain" as in liquid water falling. It was precipitation in the form of ice (like hail or snowflakes).

Quote:

Then they saw the hydrogen concentration on many middle parts of Mars in addition to the polar regions which indicates the water in any form.

Wrong. Hydrogen is only a part of what water is formed from. And liquid hydrogen exists well below the freezing point of water. Gaseous hydrogen pooling does not happen unless there is a solid container.

Quote:

Then they saw the glaciers under the ground in some middle latitude in both the north and south hemisphere at latitudes between 35-60. Then they said there had been in the past oceans that covered 1/3 the surface of Mars.

Just because there MAY have been water at one time does NOT mean that it is a certainty in the present or future.

Quote:

Moreover, if you insist that there is no liquid water on the surface of Mars: couldn't the liquid water be in the underground of Mars? Because as much as you go deeper the temperature will be more hot.

Idiot. There is a difference between the surface and the interior. If there is ice on the surface I would bet that there would be water below the surface. I was never in contention about water existing BELOW the surface. Only that I am 99.9*% sure that there isn't any above the surface.

darkbeaver

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

darkbeaver,
· Such beautiful planet like Mars with its clear atmosphere, day and night succession, seasons, years, the polar regions with ice, the ice on the tops of mountains, deserts with sandstorms, fog and clouds; this is a defective picture: there must be the liquid water there, and there are people in addition to all forms of life. Do you think God - be glorified - may leave such extensive planet with all such criteria (have just been discovered; others may not be discovered yet); while the earth: He filled it with crowdings of plants, animals and the four races of human beings: this generation alone count by billions?
· Electricity is everywhere in the universe: negative and positive charges; but I don't think the craters on Mars are due to any electricity.
·
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

The etching versus the collision schools is an interesting read EA, the one (plasma etching) is supported by direct laboratory repeatable replication. Geometry does not support collision except in rare instances. The sand is carried electrically, you can see dust devils with lightning axis on Mars. photos to follow.

hermanntrude

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

moved to alternate theories.

Provide one SHRED of plausible evidence that mars has a hot active core and can sustain large lakes of liquid water at the surface and i'll move it back again

L Gilbert

#10

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Hermie, in spite of the fact that the twit insists upon using a vastly erroneous interpretation of a religious text as a scientific text, it appears he IS right about Mars having a hot core. SPACE.com -- Mars Core Squishy, Goes with the Tidal Flow

darkbeaver

#11

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

L Gilbert

#12

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Beav, I can't seem to rez your pic.

hermanntrude

#13

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

hot compared to a boiled egg, yes. Hot compared to the earth's core or venus's core? nope.

eanassir

#14

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Idiot. There is a difference between the surface and the interior. If there is ice on the surface I would bet that there would be water below the surface. I was never in contention about water existing BELOW the surface. Only that I am 99.9*% sure that there isn't any above the surface.

The idiot and the foolish who is 99.9*% sure.

hermanntrude

#15

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

NASA on mars

excerpt:

Quote:

...the average temperature of the Martian mantle may be roughly 2700 degrees F (1500 degrees C)...

various websites estimate the temperature of the earth's core at between 3000°C and 7000 °C

eanassir

#16

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude

NASA on mars

excerpt:

various websites estimate the temperature of the earth's core at between 3000°C and 7000 °C

So my post is an alternate theory; but your post is only conveying theory and dictating from NASA and others.

darkbeaver

#17

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Beav, I can't seem to rez your pic.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/20...-dustdevil.jpg

Image credit: NASA/JPL/Texas A&M Gusev crater dust devil

darkbeaver

#18

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Let's drop the badmouthing each other, let's have a nice civilized exchange.

Cliffy

#19

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

darkbeaver,

Up Yours! ..... Actually it is a good suggestion but I could not resist as this has been the flavour of the last dozen posts.

All the scientific theories aside (just for a minute - don't get your bonnets all in a twist) Edgar Case (I think) said that the planets represented the various dimensions. Thus the Earth was the third dimension (that is what it is) and Mars was the forth dimension (which it might be - we can only see the third dimensional part) then, (if this has any validity) life on Mars would be beyond our capacity to see (at least not yet). Just an alternative view point to confuse matters.

hermanntrude

#20

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

DB i think you have a point. Things have been fairly heated recently in this type of thread. Let's be nice

Personally i think the OP is outrageously unscientific and frankly laughable... but eanassir has never called me a bad name

darkbeaver

#21

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude

DB i think you have a point. Things have been fairly heated recently in this type of thread. Let's be nice

Personally i think the OP is outrageously unscientific and frankly laughable... but eanassir has never called me a bad name

The OP is just the sort of thing to invite casual pleasent diplomatic conversation where we might freely share, if not knowlege, then perceptions as to what the particulars of the universe might be or not be. For instance my former membership in The Church of The Big Bang is now only a matter of mild embarassment thanks to exchanges just like this.My friends also note an improvement in my personal hygiene and a generally more positive outlook.

darkbeaver

#22

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Oceans and lakes on Mars
( Oceans, alleged ancient, and underground glciers )
First:
Glaciers have been discovered on Mars below a shield of rocks with some depth under the ground.
Such under-ground glaciers are located at latitudes of 35-60 in both the north and south hemispheres. Such latitudes are middle, neither polar nor equatorial.
The areas of these glaciers are very extensive.
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

3 - Beyond Velikovsky

Einstein's Relativity Demostrated, Mining Pure Energy from Empty Space, and the Green Hills of Mars

Scientific theory preaches that our Solar System condensed from a cloud of galactic dust. Mutual gravitational attraction is calculated to have drawn the nebulous dust particles toward a common center, inducing rotational velocity in the process. When density of dust at the center became high enough, pressure generated heat for the nuclear fusion of a star to develop. Centnfugal force flattened out the primordial nebula into a disc, and then streamers were thrown off to condense independently, forming a system of planets. Photographs of nebulas in deep space illustrate each stage of the evolutionary process, so why couldn't it have happened here just like that?
Well, to begin with, just about every planet in the Solar System exhibits some anomaly that proves the Nebular Hypothesis could not possibly have happened the way we are told in school.
If you refer to the figures supplied by Funk and Wagnall Encyclopedia, you will see that Jupiter has one tenth the diameter of the Sun, but it rotates a hundred times faster. Volume is diameter cubed, and momentum is one half of velo- city squared. Therefore, the Sun has a thousand times the volume of Jupiter, but Jupiter has five times the angular momentum. Jupiter is also a fairly dense planet, containing more mass than all the rest of the Solar System combined, outside of the Sun. Therefore, even after we make allowances for difference of radius, quick and dirty calculation indicates that Jupiter has about as much angular momentum as all the rest of the Solar System put together, including the Sun.
But that should not be! You see, if all the rotational energy in the Solar System is generated by gravitational collapse, then almost all the momentum in the Solar System must be concentrated in the Sun. While not altogether impossible, it is exceedingly unlikely for any planetary material to be flung away from a condensing core without losing the rotational momentum it acquired by condensing in the first place.
Venus rotates backward on its axis, and radiates more energy than it receives from the Sun. At some stretch of the definition, Venus can he regarded as a miniature star. Dust clouds whirling in space are almost certain to be as homogeneous as any other gaseous mixture, so why is the chemistry of Venus grossly different from all the other inner planets? And why did Venus just happen to lock into a three-two orbital-rotational ratio with the Earth without inducing corresponding changes in the angular momentum of our planet? We are, after all, more alike in size and mass than any other bodies in the system, so any gravitational friction between us should he settled by mutual compromise; instead, Venus gave in to us entirely.
The Earth has by far the largest satellite in the Solar System, and the farthest away. The moon, in fact, is not a satellite of the Earth at al1. Moon and Earth form a double planetary system, both going around the Sun while the Moon is perturbed to cross and recross the Earth's orbit. If you draw the orbits of the Earth and the Moon to scale, you will see for yourself that the Moon never curves around the Earth as the orbit of a true satellite must. The Moon always falls in a curve to the Sun - sometimes more, sometimes less. When the curve is tighter, the Moon accelerates and passes the Earth; when the curve is less, the Moon falls back until it is swept back across the Earth's orbit again.
The polar axes of the Earth and Mars are tilted nearly 30 degrees from the plane of their orbits. When a nebula condenses into a disc, all spins must be in the same plane. One of Mars's satellites, Phobos, completes an orbital revolution before Mars makes a polar rotation. Such excess of angular velocity makes Phobos one body in the solar system that could have been cast off by centrifugal force, but it is generally agreed to be a captured asteroid.
The Nebular Hypothesis does not account for the swarms of broken rocks and planetoids orbiting the sun between Mars and Jupiter.

the end after a big unposted chunk ------below

If you find a thin, vibrant disc, dust the surface with powder, and make it resonate to a musical tone, the powder will move into concentric windrows, spaced a wavelength apart. As the circles approach the center, radial vibrations break up the circular pattern. What you see is a model representing the mechanics of Bode's Law and the General Theory of Relativity.

If Velikovsky's scenario were staged during human memory, the people who saw the action were not living on Earth. They were Martians. As Mars is older than the Earth in its physical evolution, people on Mars may be expected to he more advanced technologically than we are now. Once they saw that alien squatters were going to break their leasehold on Sunny Acres, everyone who could raise the price of a ticket on the space ark would pack their luggage with Kodachrome, disconnect the household utilities, and hop over to the Mediterranean Riviera for the Ice Age - bringing their pyramid and crystal technology with them.
Support for the hypothesis of interplanetary colonization is found in comparative anatomy. The human animal is rather poorly adapted to conditions on Earth. The sunlight is too bright for our eyes and skin, our backbones are too long, our feet are too weak, and our weight is ruinous to posture. If all creatures' morphology is determined by an evolutionary adaptation to its environment we are best adapted for comfortable living on Mars, providing the climate were sweetened.
The white race appears to be new to this planet; civilization appears to have arrived suddenly and fully blown, then decaying for millennia after its initial appearance before recovering to our present eminence. The prehistoric aborigines of the cradles of civilization say they were conquered by Aryan invaders. The word Aryan is a variation of Arean, and Arean means Martian. There is a tribe in the Mideast who claims its ancestors came from Mars. As myths go this one requires a sophistication of concept not proper to a primitive tribe; the Earth must be recognized as a planet unsupported in empty space and the bright reddish star must he recognized as another world.
The most interesting evidence for the Martian origin of the white race, if not an extraterrestrial immigration for all of man kind is provided by science reporter Gay Gaer Luce in Body Time. Biologists acknowledge that the vital rhythms of all creatures are established by their place of origin; this is why subequatorial plants bloom for us in the North at Christmas, and species entrained to the periods of the Moon are believed to have evolved in the tidal ocean. When experimental human subjects are isolated from all terrestrial rhythms as much as possible to discover the free period of the human body, it has been found that most people settle into a daily rhythm of sleep and work of twenty-four hours and forty minutes. Twenty-four hours and forty minutes is the daily period of Mars.
The mechanics of evolution make it practically impossible for any species to develop without integration with its environment yet this is just what we have managed to do. We are profoundly out of order with the rest of terrestrial life. Everywhere we go we destroy the natural environment with wholesale insensitivity to its rhythms and balances. We are reconstructing the entire surface of this planet to suit our alien dimensions. The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

Cliffy

#23

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Nov 30th, 2008

The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

darkbeaver,

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

darkbeaver

#24

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

darkbeaver,

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

I have the same feeling. And still in the midst of economic meltdown and spreading war I can hear the lunatics spouting nonsence about competition and opportunity and stepping up to the ****ing plate with improved efficiencies so like you say it's not stretching the imagination very much to consider our possible alien origin.

L Gilbert

#25

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Sorry, eanassir, you've been shown to be wildly off the mark in astronomy, physics, and chemistry, and yet you continue to spew your tripe from an obviously erroneous interpretation of a book whose topic is about a figment of someone's imagination. So who is the idiot and fool? Sorry, it isn't me.

Are you going to reply to what I said (There is a difference between the surface and the interior. If there is ice on the surface I would bet that there would be water below the surface. I was never in contention about water existing BELOW the surface. Only that I am 99.9*% sure that there isn't any above the surface. ) or are you going to stick with spewing your gibberish?

Last edited by L Gilbert; Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:28 PM..

L Gilbert

#26

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

So my post is an alternate theory; but your post is only conveying theory and dictating from NASA and others.

Again, what you say is not theory. It is merely hypothesis and hypothesis that is easily refuted. Your problem is that in spite of having been refuted many times by a few people, you continue to post the same crap. And the reason that people repeat what NASA and others have said is because they are being factual, unlike you.
Go play in your sandbox, little boy, and leave us grownups to discuss the realities of the universe.

Last edited by L Gilbert; Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:38 PM..

L Gilbert

#27

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude

NASA on mars

excerpt:

various websites estimate the temperature of the earth's core at between 3000°C and 7000 °C

So Mars' 1500° isn't hot? It's only "boiled egg" hot?

--

L Gilbert

#28

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude

DB i think you have a point. Things have been fairly heated recently in this type of thread. Let's be nice

Personally i think the OP is outrageously unscientific and frankly laughable... but eanassir has never called me a bad name

So why would it even be considered to be left in the science forum. Or even in the "alternate THEORY" forum? THAT is laughable.

Scott Free

#29

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

Any species left unchecked will expand beyond what its environment can sustain. It turns out humans are no different than any other animal. We are quite indigenous and behave predictably.

Our numbers will increase until we have stressed our environment beyond all capacity, then we will have a sudden and quick die off and, in all likelihood, will completely destroy our species in the process.

hermanntrude

#30

Re: Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

Dec 1st, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

So Mars' 1500° isn't hot? It's only "boiled egg" hot?

--

certainly it's hot in human terms. But it's only just hot enough to melt iron, for instance, like earth's core is. The result is that earth's core is primarily liquid iron, giving rise to a magnetic field, whereas Mars's core is squishy but not liquid.

remember that there's also lots of carbon and other stuff, which raises the melting point of the core to a higher temperature than that of pure carbon.

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