Super Genius
Posts: 1,274 
August 31st, 2007, 09:54 PM
I am not a fan of nuclear power, but if it means putting a stop to the wasteful practise of burning up one-third of Alberta's yearly natural gas production just to make steam of getting the crude oil from the tar sands in Ft Mac, maybe its worth it. Thats a terrible waste of clean energy to make durty crude, and it will get worse as the Ft Mac tar sands ops grow.
But now they might build the nuclear plant far away from Fort Mac and just sell the electricity instead. Or, they might build transmission lines to Ft Mac from the proposed Peace river nuclear site. That seems silly to me, just build it near Ft Mac.
But whadda I know eh - here are some info links and opinions -
http://tinyurl.com/2ohy9p
Opinions differ on safety of possible nuclear plant:
http://tinyurl.com/2un9ew
natural gas to create the steam that is needed to coax the oil from dense underground cavities is expected to increase fourfold over the next decade. By 2025, the Alberta oilsands could be using basically all the natural gas that will flow south from the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline, just to get more "dirty" oil out of the ground.
http://tinyurl.com/2kgpvz
I am not a fan of nuclear power, but if it means putting a stop to the wasteful practise of burning up one-third of Alberta's yearly natural gas production just to make steam of getting the crude oil from the tar sands in Ft Mac, maybe its worth it. Thats a terrible waste of clean energy to make durty crude, and it will get worse as the Ft Mac tar sands ops grow.
But now they might build the nuclear plant far away from Fort Mac and just sell the electricity instead. Or, they might build transmission lines to Ft Mac from the proposed Peace river nuclear site. That seems silly to me, just build it near Ft Mac.
But whadda I know eh - here are some info links and opinions -
Quote:
.
A nuclear power plant proposed for a site near the Peace River in Alberta, not far from the province's western border, is sparking debate in B.C. about the location and potential environmental impact
http://tinyurl.com/2ohy9p
Opinions differ on safety of possible nuclear plant:
http://tinyurl.com/2un9ew
natural gas to create the steam that is needed to coax the oil from dense underground cavities is expected to increase fourfold over the next decade. By 2025, the Alberta oilsands could be using basically all the natural gas that will flow south from the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline, just to get more "dirty" oil out of the ground.
http://tinyurl.com/2kgpvz
Member
Posts: 74
September 2nd, 2007, 07:47 PM
We have to quit bowing to the Oil companies. My guess is sometime in the future Tar Sands oil will be deemed a dirty, unwanted energy source strictly based on the ever increasing demand by countries to lower emissions and to move to cleaner sources of fuel. California has already banned tar sand oil and more than likely other states and countries will follow. People always suggest that if this happens we will just sell the oil to China or India however those countries, more than any other need to get off fossil fuels and need to move to cleaner sources. The pollution in those countries is Beyond bad!!
They can go ahead and build the Nuclear plant however it should be used to wean us off fossil fuels and allow us to use more electrical based products such as plug in Hybrids, electrical heating etc.
We have to quit bowing to the Oil companies. My guess is sometime in the future Tar Sands oil will be deemed a dirty, unwanted energy source strictly based on the ever increasing demand by countries to lower emissions and to move to cleaner sources of fuel. California has already banned tar sand oil and more than likely other states and countries will follow. People always suggest that if this happens we will just sell the oil to China or India however those countries, more than any other need to get off fossil fuels and need to move to cleaner sources. The pollution in those countries is Beyond bad!!
They can go ahead and build the Nuclear plant however it should be used to wean us off fossil fuels and allow us to use more electrical based products such as plug in Hybrids, electrical heating etc.
Electoral Member
Posts: 675
September 2nd, 2007, 10:46 PM
I am for nuclear reactor until we find more reliable alternative energy
But I hope to see the day where I will find my city covered with nice solar panels everywhere on our roof to create some extra* electricity and our vast land turned into solar/wind energy field.
...I guess I will have to wait another 300 year for it lol
I am for nuclear reactor until we find more reliable alternative energy
But I hope to see the day where I will find my city covered with nice solar panels everywhere on our roof to create some extra* electricity and our vast land turned into solar/wind energy field.
...I guess I will have to wait another 300 year for it lol
Electoral Member
Posts: 71
Location: Hither and yon
Location: Hither and yon
September 14th, 2007, 10:51 PM
Jsan:
Alberta upgrades and blends most of the heavy oil into light sweet crude.
In fact there is a bit of a debate about insuring that most if not all of the upgrading is done in Alberta to maximize profits and jobs. Once upgraded its just like any other oil. Nobody cares where it came from and Alberta can sell as much as they can produce including I am think to California .
As soon as we can afford to shut down all planes, trains, ships and automobiles as well as the plastics industry, the chemical industry, a huge chunk of the power generating industry, the fertilizer industry and a whack of peoples home heating capacity we should be good to go on shutting down the oil patch.
Maybe next year......or perhaps not.
I favor starting planning on a nuclear reactor ASAP.
We do need to reduce emissions as much as possible, as fast as possible.
Alternative energy sources are not panning out too well.
We have huge wind power development in Alberta and its not really proving to be practical.
Solar is pricey, wind power is turning into a nightmare in Europe, nuclear could be a way to go.
Jsan:
Alberta upgrades and blends most of the heavy oil into light sweet crude.
In fact there is a bit of a debate about insuring that most if not all of the upgrading is done in Alberta to maximize profits and jobs. Once upgraded its just like any other oil. Nobody cares where it came from and Alberta can sell as much as they can produce including I am think to California .
As soon as we can afford to shut down all planes, trains, ships and automobiles as well as the plastics industry, the chemical industry, a huge chunk of the power generating industry, the fertilizer industry and a whack of peoples home heating capacity we should be good to go on shutting down the oil patch.
Maybe next year......or perhaps not.
I favor starting planning on a nuclear reactor ASAP.
We do need to reduce emissions as much as possible, as fast as possible.
Alternative energy sources are not panning out too well.
We have huge wind power development in Alberta and its not really proving to be practical.
Solar is pricey, wind power is turning into a nightmare in Europe, nuclear could be a way to go.
Electoral Member
Posts: 107
Location: Calgary
Location: Calgary
September 15th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Very well said. I totally believe that humans need to reduce their carbon emissions to reduce the impact on our planet, although I am still unsure if all that we hear is totally correct with regards to climate change or whether there is some "scaremongering" going on out there.
I wish people would stop complaining about the "Oil and Gas Industry", "airtravel", "cars" etc for being the worst carbon emitters....the Oil and Gas Industry is a business and they sell a product that is in demand and it is US that require the product. Everyone needs to realise that WE need to change our lifestyles rether than spend time and energy blaming industry....they wouldn't be in business if WE didn't want to consume what they produce......
Quoting Trex
Jsan:
Alberta upgrades and blends most of the heavy oil into light sweet crude.
In fact there is a bit of a debate about insuring that most if not all of the upgrading is done in Alberta to maximize profits and jobs. Once upgraded its just like any other oil. Nobody cares where it came from and Alberta can sell as much as they can produce including I am think to California .
As soon as we can afford to shut down all planes, trains, ships and automobiles as well as the plastics industry, the chemical industry, a huge chunk of the power generating industry, the fertilizer industry and a whack of peoples home heating capacity we should be good to go on shutting down the oil patch.
Maybe next year......or perhaps not.
I favor starting planning on a nuclear reactor ASAP.
We do need to reduce emissions as much as possible, as fast as possible.
Alternative energy sources are not panning out too well.
We have huge wind power development in Alberta and its not really proving to be practical.
Solar is pricey, wind power is turning into a nightmare in Europe, nuclear could be a way to go.
Alberta upgrades and blends most of the heavy oil into light sweet crude.
In fact there is a bit of a debate about insuring that most if not all of the upgrading is done in Alberta to maximize profits and jobs. Once upgraded its just like any other oil. Nobody cares where it came from and Alberta can sell as much as they can produce including I am think to California .
As soon as we can afford to shut down all planes, trains, ships and automobiles as well as the plastics industry, the chemical industry, a huge chunk of the power generating industry, the fertilizer industry and a whack of peoples home heating capacity we should be good to go on shutting down the oil patch.
Maybe next year......or perhaps not.
I favor starting planning on a nuclear reactor ASAP.
We do need to reduce emissions as much as possible, as fast as possible.
Alternative energy sources are not panning out too well.
We have huge wind power development in Alberta and its not really proving to be practical.
Solar is pricey, wind power is turning into a nightmare in Europe, nuclear could be a way to go.
Very well said. I totally believe that humans need to reduce their carbon emissions to reduce the impact on our planet, although I am still unsure if all that we hear is totally correct with regards to climate change or whether there is some "scaremongering" going on out there.
I wish people would stop complaining about the "Oil and Gas Industry", "airtravel", "cars" etc for being the worst carbon emitters....the Oil and Gas Industry is a business and they sell a product that is in demand and it is US that require the product. Everyone needs to realise that WE need to change our lifestyles rether than spend time and energy blaming industry....they wouldn't be in business if WE didn't want to consume what they produce......
September 15th, 2007, 09:45 AM
I don't know how I feel about this.
I like the idea of weaning off of oil for some of our energy needs. I like the idea of nuclear as a tool to bring that about.
But the reasons we're having to do it are such bull it blows me away. And no, I'm not talking about environment, I'm talking about manipulation by the oil companies. Knowing men who work in the production end of the oil industry in Alberta, I find it VERY frustrating to hear the oil companies carry on about limited supply, difficult exploration, and extraction issues, when they've shut in almost half their performing wells, and are just sitting on them. The shortage is largely manufactured, and I would even go so far (yes, I know I'll sound like a conspiracy theorist), as to say that the oil companies likely commissioned a large portion of the peak oil hysteria.
I don't know how I feel about this.
I like the idea of weaning off of oil for some of our energy needs. I like the idea of nuclear as a tool to bring that about.
But the reasons we're having to do it are such bull it blows me away. And no, I'm not talking about environment, I'm talking about manipulation by the oil companies. Knowing men who work in the production end of the oil industry in Alberta, I find it VERY frustrating to hear the oil companies carry on about limited supply, difficult exploration, and extraction issues, when they've shut in almost half their performing wells, and are just sitting on them. The shortage is largely manufactured, and I would even go so far (yes, I know I'll sound like a conspiracy theorist), as to say that the oil companies likely commissioned a large portion of the peak oil hysteria.
Electoral Member
Posts: 71
Location: Hither and yon
Location: Hither and yon
September 15th, 2007, 12:46 PM
Karrie:
................errrrr, You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
So I am one of those much maligned international oil guys you hear about.
Been working all over the planet for 20 odd years.
At the moment I am posting from a production facility in the North Sea, UK sector.
Believe me when I say that I am no apologist for big oil.
Any one see that George Clooney Syriana flick....some truth there.
Halliburton.....dont even get me started.
However trust me on this one Karrie there are absolutely no shut in oil wells in Canada that dont absolutely have to be.
At $80.USD a barrel nobody shuts in oil.
Oil companies have shareholders. Thats you and me.
Take for example those fun loving lefties in CUPE. Most people dont realize that the teachers pension funds are massive shareholders. When guys like that talk the senior managment at big oil jump.
Its all about return on investment.
Soooo. If they cant tie in a new well because of crew shortages. Or a well is down because it needs a workover or it has equipment failure then sure its shut in. If one half of one percent of producing wells are shut in I would be surprised.
And Karrie, it really is getting more and more difficult to find and extract oil. More and more expensive too.
Ever been to one of the 'Stan's, Nigeria,Cogo,Yemen places like that? Dangerous places.
I dont really think we are that well liked there (we being fat,overpaid, well fed foreigners)
If the locals dont want us there I am not sure we should be.
Russia and Venezuala are nationalizing.
The Saudis pretend to be our pals.....but they are Wahabbi and they have the money to fund the people that hate us.
And alberta oil is very very expensive to extract on a barrel/cost basis.
Fingertrouble is right. Its not the oil companies....... Its us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
Karrie:
................errrrr, You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
So I am one of those much maligned international oil guys you hear about.
Been working all over the planet for 20 odd years.
At the moment I am posting from a production facility in the North Sea, UK sector.
Believe me when I say that I am no apologist for big oil.
Any one see that George Clooney Syriana flick....some truth there.
Halliburton.....dont even get me started.
However trust me on this one Karrie there are absolutely no shut in oil wells in Canada that dont absolutely have to be.
At $80.USD a barrel nobody shuts in oil.
Oil companies have shareholders. Thats you and me.
Take for example those fun loving lefties in CUPE. Most people dont realize that the teachers pension funds are massive shareholders. When guys like that talk the senior managment at big oil jump.
Its all about return on investment.
Soooo. If they cant tie in a new well because of crew shortages. Or a well is down because it needs a workover or it has equipment failure then sure its shut in. If one half of one percent of producing wells are shut in I would be surprised.
And Karrie, it really is getting more and more difficult to find and extract oil. More and more expensive too.
Ever been to one of the 'Stan's, Nigeria,Cogo,Yemen places like that? Dangerous places.
I dont really think we are that well liked there (we being fat,overpaid, well fed foreigners)
If the locals dont want us there I am not sure we should be.
Russia and Venezuala are nationalizing.
The Saudis pretend to be our pals.....but they are Wahabbi and they have the money to fund the people that hate us.
And alberta oil is very very expensive to extract on a barrel/cost basis.
Fingertrouble is right. Its not the oil companies....... Its us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
Electoral Member
Posts: 675
September 15th, 2007, 01:07 PM
Exxon, Shell, Petro-Canada, Politicians, media, and many other organizations are doing us a big favor by not negotiating our life-style. As George H. Bush said...American way of life is not negotiable.
By the way, I don't support nuclear power as it is similar to oil; uranium will run out anyways in couple decade. And nuclear power energy is expansive and we will obviously see radical increase in our energy prices, as a result.
I suppose only time will tell, of our future.
Only time will tell.
Quote:
Do we need any better explanation for the troubles than this? Oil companies can lie because we want them to lie* If they told us, "Oil is not unsustainable" How will our stock market react? How will House of Saud react (wow, I'd like to see that one)?
Fingertrouble is right. Its not the oil companies....... Its us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
Exxon, Shell, Petro-Canada, Politicians, media, and many other organizations are doing us a big favor by not negotiating our life-style. As George H. Bush said...American way of life is not negotiable.
By the way, I don't support nuclear power as it is similar to oil; uranium will run out anyways in couple decade. And nuclear power energy is expansive and we will obviously see radical increase in our energy prices, as a result.
I suppose only time will tell, of our future.
Only time will tell.
September 15th, 2007, 02:18 PM
I'm highly familiar with the oil industry both here (lived in it all my life and live off it now), and overseas. Many areas overseas are indeed highly unstable. My husband lost a coworker in Nigeria this year. I don't need a lesson on exploration, I know it's expensive. But it's the shut in wells that were already producing, that I question. As do the field operators ordered to shut them in for no apparent reason.
Quoting Trex
I know many operators in Alberta, who have shut in wells that don't need to shut in. I also know many engineers who work for the oil companies in Calgary who have oil waiting in their fields, drilled, ready to produce, that are shut in and just waiting. Because there isn't a shortage yet... they're still selling their oil at $80 a barrel. But by not flooding the market, they keep it at $80. Supply and demand is a neat thing.
Karrie:
................errrrr, You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
However trust me on this one Karrie there are absolutely no shut in oil wells in Canada that dont absolutely have to be.
At $80.USD a barrel nobody shuts in oil.
Oil companies have shareholders. Thats you and me.
Take for example those fun loving lefties in CUPE. Most people dont realize that the teachers pension funds are massive shareholders. When guys like that talk the senior managment at big oil jump.
Its all about return on investment.
Soooo. If they cant tie in a new well because of crew shortages. Or a well is down because it needs a workover or it has equipment failure then sure its shut in. If one half of one percent of producing wells are shut in I would be surprised.
And Karrie, it really is getting more and more difficult to find and extract oil. More and more expensive too.
Ever been to one of the 'Stan's, Nigeria,Cogo,Yemen places like that? Dangerous places.
I dont really think we are that well liked there (we being fat,overpaid, well fed foreigners)
If the locals dont want us there I am not sure we should be.
Russia and Venezuala are nationalizing.
The Saudis pretend to be our pals.....but they are Wahabbi and they have the money to fund the people that hate us.
And alberta oil is very very expensive to extract on a barrel/cost basis.
Fingertrouble is right. Its not the oil companies....... Its us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
................errrrr, You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
However trust me on this one Karrie there are absolutely no shut in oil wells in Canada that dont absolutely have to be.
At $80.USD a barrel nobody shuts in oil.
Oil companies have shareholders. Thats you and me.
Take for example those fun loving lefties in CUPE. Most people dont realize that the teachers pension funds are massive shareholders. When guys like that talk the senior managment at big oil jump.
Its all about return on investment.
Soooo. If they cant tie in a new well because of crew shortages. Or a well is down because it needs a workover or it has equipment failure then sure its shut in. If one half of one percent of producing wells are shut in I would be surprised.
And Karrie, it really is getting more and more difficult to find and extract oil. More and more expensive too.
Ever been to one of the 'Stan's, Nigeria,Cogo,Yemen places like that? Dangerous places.
I dont really think we are that well liked there (we being fat,overpaid, well fed foreigners)
If the locals dont want us there I am not sure we should be.
Russia and Venezuala are nationalizing.
The Saudis pretend to be our pals.....but they are Wahabbi and they have the money to fund the people that hate us.
And alberta oil is very very expensive to extract on a barrel/cost basis.
Fingertrouble is right. Its not the oil companies....... Its us.
We need high milage cars. We need rapid transit.We need to walk more.We need more bicycles.We need smaller better insulated houses.We need energy effiecent appliances.
Easy and cheap oil IS running out.
And the enemy is us.
I'm highly familiar with the oil industry both here (lived in it all my life and live off it now), and overseas. Many areas overseas are indeed highly unstable. My husband lost a coworker in Nigeria this year. I don't need a lesson on exploration, I know it's expensive. But it's the shut in wells that were already producing, that I question. As do the field operators ordered to shut them in for no apparent reason.
Electoral Member
Posts: 71
Location: Hither and yon
Location: Hither and yon
September 15th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Well Karrie I suppose we could play yes and no all day long.
But you are WRONG, and we are pumping wide open.
If its shut in its for a technical reason... and there is very very little shut in oil in Canada.
They are flogging those strippers as hard as they can.
(stripper being and old dog of a watered out oil well)
You and your husband may know engineers.
I am one. With over thirty years in drilling and completions.
You may know people.......those people are my classmates and associates.
Your husband may have lost a co-worker.
I have lost people workin FOR me....... and that is gutwrenching.
I have worked on every continent but Antartica.
So perhaps yo DO need a lesson.
Because it is just how I said it was.
And what exactly are your credentials in the racket BTW?
Well Karrie I suppose we could play yes and no all day long.
But you are WRONG, and we are pumping wide open.
If its shut in its for a technical reason... and there is very very little shut in oil in Canada.
They are flogging those strippers as hard as they can.
(stripper being and old dog of a watered out oil well)
You and your husband may know engineers.
I am one. With over thirty years in drilling and completions.
You may know people.......those people are my classmates and associates.
Your husband may have lost a co-worker.
I have lost people workin FOR me....... and that is gutwrenching.
I have worked on every continent but Antartica.
So perhaps yo DO need a lesson.
Because it is just how I said it was.
And what exactly are your credentials in the racket BTW?
September 15th, 2007, 03:16 PM
My husband is a CPET. My oversees operations of two large fields for Devon Canada. I have uncles who operate, cousins who operate, brother in-laws who operate. Five friends who are engineers for Shell in Calgary.
All within the Alberta industry.
But, I see it's obviously distressed you, so I'll just leave you to your day.
My husband is a CPET. My oversees operations of two large fields for Devon Canada. I have uncles who operate, cousins who operate, brother in-laws who operate. Five friends who are engineers for Shell in Calgary.
All within the Alberta industry.
But, I see it's obviously distressed you, so I'll just leave you to your day.
Electoral Member
Posts: 71
Location: Hither and yon
Location: Hither and yon
September 15th, 2007, 03:39 PM
Karrie:
You have not distressed me in the least.
We are just having a debate about shut in oil.
You have your opinions and I have mine.
We both think we are right. I of course feel that you have been fed a few bum rumours.
You dont believe that.
You are probably right about getting back to my day. This oil well I am drilling as I post is a bit of a tricky one.
And Karrie, not to be highhanded about it but battery operators are not always in the loop.They may be told what to shut in but being as they are fairly low on the food chain they are not always told why.
I did not always inform the ones working for me exactly why they were being told to do something.
Anyways cheers from here and if I ever get this one drilled.........I bet you anything they wont shut it in.
Karrie:
You have not distressed me in the least.
We are just having a debate about shut in oil.
You have your opinions and I have mine.
We both think we are right. I of course feel that you have been fed a few bum rumours.
You dont believe that.
You are probably right about getting back to my day. This oil well I am drilling as I post is a bit of a tricky one.
And Karrie, not to be highhanded about it but battery operators are not always in the loop.They may be told what to shut in but being as they are fairly low on the food chain they are not always told why.
I did not always inform the ones working for me exactly why they were being told to do something.
Anyways cheers from here and if I ever get this one drilled.........I bet you anything they wont shut it in.
September 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Sorry that I read you wrong. Asking for my certifications when I clearly stated that what I was discussing came from word of mouth of engineers and such, and telling me I need a lesson in oil exploration was so condescending that I couldn't help but feel you MUST have your back up. Good to know you don't. Cheers back at you, and enjoy your day.
Sorry that I read you wrong. Asking for my certifications when I clearly stated that what I was discussing came from word of mouth of engineers and such, and telling me I need a lesson in oil exploration was so condescending that I couldn't help but feel you MUST have your back up. Good to know you don't. Cheers back at you, and enjoy your day.
Electoral Member
Posts: 909 
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
September 28th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Well, the cost of tarsands oil is between 12 -14 % per barrel and dropping as new techs come on line, even at that price they have a six hunded percent(or so)markup ask any retailer if they could live with a profit like that- now you can argue that oilsands have large capital start up costs and your right they do, but these financing costs are offset by a lower royalty premium until all construction costs are recovered and it doesn't take long to do that @ 80.00 per barrel here is an article that I pulled off of wikipedia
"In mid-2006, the National Energy Board of Canada estimated the operating cost of a new mining operation in the Athabasca oil sands to be $9 to $12 per barrel, while the cost of an in-situ SAGD operation (using dual horizontal wells) would be $10 to $14 per barrel. This compares to operating costs for conventional oil wells which can range from less than $1 per barrel in Iraq and Saudi Arabia to $6 and up in the United States and Canada." --- don't forget that oil still has to be shipped from the middle east, I imagine thats worth a few bucks.
Well, the cost of tarsands oil is between 12 -14 % per barrel and dropping as new techs come on line, even at that price they have a six hunded percent(or so)markup ask any retailer if they could live with a profit like that- now you can argue that oilsands have large capital start up costs and your right they do, but these financing costs are offset by a lower royalty premium until all construction costs are recovered and it doesn't take long to do that @ 80.00 per barrel here is an article that I pulled off of wikipedia
"In mid-2006, the National Energy Board of Canada estimated the operating cost of a new mining operation in the Athabasca oil sands to be $9 to $12 per barrel, while the cost of an in-situ SAGD operation (using dual horizontal wells) would be $10 to $14 per barrel. This compares to operating costs for conventional oil wells which can range from less than $1 per barrel in Iraq and Saudi Arabia to $6 and up in the United States and Canada." --- don't forget that oil still has to be shipped from the middle east, I imagine thats worth a few bucks.
