Beware of this business

in hopes that as many people as possible will read this and pass on the message.
I had my farm logged by SAN forestry last fall. They have completely screwed me around by not paying me for over 6 months and only after I repeatedly called them and faught with them-and still own me for 9 loads of conifers that have mysteriously disappeared. They have not done any clean up on my property after saying that yes they need to, and have done the same to my neighbor.
They tell me that I am not important because they have lots of workup north.
So-I am telling everyone and using the net as my word of mouth. If you ever talk logging with anyone, tell them that SAN based out of Plamondon are a bunch of lying crooks and warn people not to hire them. I can send you pictures of the mess I am dealing with. As well, they have a GM named Joel Molanson that is the worst lying weasel of them all, if he is ever looking for work, don't hire him either.
So, nine months later....they tell me stick it.
I am tired of the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer and these big companies thinking that they can give me a kick in the ass and threaten me. If nothing else I can preven them from doing it to other land owners and maybe someone from up north can take notice and be supportive as well.

I am a single parent struggling to make ends meet and live in a new province and look at the treatment that I get-I was proud to be an Albertan-my family is all from here-is a shamefull mess that they are labelling the boom with isnt it?

Maybe it would be better if you slowed down just a little. Get to know the people here a bit before you assail us with all your problems. Most of the people here are generous and caring but this is a discussion forum, not a help line. I think I have ascertained that you live in Alberta. We have members in Alberta and maybe somebody can tell you who to call about your problem once you explain what your problem is.

Where are you at now?
What's left?
What's the condition of your fields?
How much land are we talking about?
I'll try to help, but I need to have something to go on....
PM me if you wish..

It's called court. Not to hurt your feelings but from the look of your message and the indication from your message that you haven't the first clue what you are doing, I suggest that you stop making any deals with anyone, find your richest relative to help you with sorting out your money issues and then find an agent to handle your situation with SAN forestry.

You've created this mess yourself by trying to handle things you know nothing about. Attempted to cash in without spending any money and now cry to anonymous people on the net about the position you got yourself into.

It's a big bad world out there, just like they told ya. When do you think you should start listening? Nothing is going to change until you start changing yourself. Harsh indeed but you need to hear it.

I live an hour north of Edmonton, with a quarter section (160 acres). They logged about 80 acres of it through the middle. They pushed a road across the whole quarter mile and then a thrid of a mile or so west as well without asking me, and I said that that was fine so long as they cleaned up al the burms, and they never did that. The burms are up over the cab of the pick-up in many spots and down as far as two feet in others with brush etc mixed in.
They have been promicing that they would do the work the last 3 months and call me the other day saying that they wont do it because my neighbor owes them money...???? Not sure what that has to do with me. They paid her for my wood accidenttly, can't account for any of her conifers and now say that she owes them money.
My purpose was not to get my situation fixed, as I know that will not happen. It is to warn other people from having SAN do business with them. I am hearing stories from other people that SAN did this to as well and all are women.
And to Unforgiven: I don't rely on my relatives to bail me out. This is where things are and I am living with that, this has nothing to do with me not knowing what I was doing. This has to do with poor tracking laws of timber in AB and a company that is bullying myself and my neighbor and lying to us and continually wasting our time. I came home early from work to meet him to look at the clean up and he never showed up or called. I took three hours off work a mont later to meet with Leon and he was a half hour late, told me he would call the next day. Three weeks later he never called, so I call him and he says I am harrassing him.
I am not crying about things and you dont think that I dont' know it is a big bad world out there? I have been through it all and survived. You won't meet anyone with more survival abilites than me and I do not need to change. I am a strong and capable person that moved 1100 kms on my own to someplace I don't know anyone, got a job, bought property, completely renovated my house (on my own) from the studs up, including hot water system, windows, electrical, drywall, flooring etc. I work a full time job, commute two hours a day and work on the farm until 11 pm every night and raise a 4 year old as a single parent.
I am not changing who I am or whining.

I never thought you were...

Don't the members here from Alberta see anything wrong with this scenario??

This is happening in your Province after all....

I've personally met and worked for lots of this archtype..."Business is Business" King of the hill blah blah blah...Go away, you're bothering me...

You call this enterprises' actions stewardship??

No honour shown here...

Province of Alberta, this is a snapshot of your reality...

My prayers go with you,

Hang in there...

Business screws someone over, and it's a snapshot of Alberta specifically?

Businesses screw people over all the time, in every province, and in every country. It sucks, but it's true. That's why there are things like the Better Business Bureau.

When you agreed to the use of this land, did you have the contract run past your lawyer? Did you have all the verbal promises in writing as a part of the contract? If both answers are yes, you should have a good leg to stand on in court which is where you should go next. If you failed to do one or both of these, then part of the blame is with yourself and you will likely never see any more money or action by this firm.

Do you trust your finacially secure relatives advice? That's usually the first person you talk to when looking at a deal.

I don't mean to be rude, just trying to make a point. This all sounds like a bunch of nose picking. Am I supposed to care if Leon was late or how many hours you took off work?

I get that your nose is out of joint from my last message. It shouldn't be. I offered you some good advice. You don't seem to understand it.

First, let go of your ego a minute. If I didn't want to help when you asked for advice I wouldn't have said anything. You won't like what I have to say but it's true and once you get to the point you accept it, you will begin to turn this thing around or at least learn a lesson from it.

To start with, you obviously don't know what you are doing or you wouldn't be talking about it on some message board on the Internet.

You have a written contract. IF you don't have a written contract, then you are going to learn that without a written contract you're screwed. This is why we have written contracts. You can say Leon told you this that and the next thing, and all Leon has to do is say that he didn't. Then you are stuck. If you do have a written contract, then you examine what is laid out in the written contract. The only thing that counts is whats written in the contract. Leon can say that you promised to bring the lads out a cup of tea everyday at 4 and sing a nice little ditty about the life of a lumberjack, but it doesn't matter unless it's in the written contract. Understand?

Now if you didn't bother paying a lawyer to look over the contract and advise you, then enjoy the little bit of money you saved. Was it worth it?

This is pretty simple. You should have a written cotnract that spells out all the responsibilites and oblgations of both parties named in the contract. If there is a violation then you take them to court and they pay what ever it costs to live up to the conditions of the contract. If it's burms or clean up, what ever.

You don't even have to utter a word on any website at all. If you know what you are doing. Which takes full circle. And you never said you know even the first thing about tort law or understand a contract in that list of wonderful abilities you have.

All sarcasm aside, you sound like a wonderful lady and mother, probably a very nice person too. But none of that counts in court, which is where this should be resolved. By the looks of what you have posted so far, you don't have the slightest idea what you are doing in that regard. The courts are full of people like you, getting screwed by people who know the rules and can use them against you because of your ignorance. And no offence but what you have posted so far here, is a pretty good indicator that you are going to get smoked.

You don't want to change? Whatever, get taken time and time again. Assume that no one will ever take what you got and fail to live up to their end of the arrangement. Keep thinking that because you are honest and live up to your obligations that everyone else will. That since your word is your bond, there is no need for contracts. There is a difference between being independant and foolish.

Talk to a lawyer and maybe you will find one that is able enough to get Leon tripped up enough to assume the liability or scared enough to take responsibility and do the right thing.

If you feel I'm rough on you good. It's so that you will remember to take great care right from the beginning so that you wind up carefree at the end.

Best of luck.

Allister

I hold to my view from my experience in business and in dealing with Alberta based businessmen.

There are "Alberta Rules" and there is no honour..

I stand by what I said..This is your reality..

Go ask northern farmers about electrical rates, necessary for their existence.
Go ask municipalities overridden by the "interests" of business.. I could on, but as you're in the "influence" of Alberta and enjoy the paradigm, fill your boots.

My whole family is northern Alberta farmers (Valleyview, Dixonville, Tangent, Guy, Falher, need I go on)... I hear more complaints about electrical rates from city folk than from them, and my rates were higher in BC. Your point escapes me. Business is more booming, expanding at a greater rate here in Alberta, thus exposure to it is higher than in most other provinces right now. It stands to reason that the number of difficult incindences is higher, but it doesn't mean the percentage of difficulties is.

Sounds wonderful,

I hope all goes well for them...

But a truly civilized society would be careful as they grew to ensure a high standard of conduct in all things..saying "thats the way it is" don't cut it with me.

You need Holmes on homes! hee hee