Layton attacks Klein
- Thread starter Roy
- Start date
Layton is insignificant in Alberta and his telling Klein to back off is nothing more that election posturing, not in Alberta, but the rest of Canada. But honestly no one cares and it receives little media attention here in Alberta. It would probably be different if Paul Martin had made that comment.
But you are right Colpy about Alberta being able to severely cut wait times on Orthopedic surgery. The Alberta health ministry provided funding for teams of nurses, orthopedics specialists, and physiotherapists in Calgary, Edmonton and Red Deer and some of the surgeries were contracted out to private clinics. I have to say that the results are damn good with wait times to see specialists and also to undergo the procedure extremely cut. In the case of actualy undergoing the procedure after seeing a specialist the wait time dropped to 4.7 weeks from 47 weeks.
Medical teams providing the 1 stop shopping seem to be a great idea and the Alberta gov't is looking use the same tactics to tackle other areas such as mental health and cancer. So Layton can ignore progress based on his idealogical ideals all he wants but it ain't gonna win him any seats in Alberta.
But you are right Colpy about Alberta being able to severely cut wait times on Orthopedic surgery. The Alberta health ministry provided funding for teams of nurses, orthopedics specialists, and physiotherapists in Calgary, Edmonton and Red Deer and some of the surgeries were contracted out to private clinics. I have to say that the results are damn good with wait times to see specialists and also to undergo the procedure extremely cut. In the case of actualy undergoing the procedure after seeing a specialist the wait time dropped to 4.7 weeks from 47 weeks.
Medical teams providing the 1 stop shopping seem to be a great idea and the Alberta gov't is looking use the same tactics to tackle other areas such as mental health and cancer. So Layton can ignore progress based on his idealogical ideals all he wants but it ain't gonna win him any seats in Alberta.
the current system is poor. Layton needs to recognize that new ways are necessary.
As much as i do not like Klein, it is good to have somebody willing to take action to solve problems. Klien being a thorn gets attention where it is needed sometimes. Too bad he is such an oil stooge.
As much as i do not like Klein, it is good to have somebody willing to take action to solve problems. Klien being a thorn gets attention where it is needed sometimes. Too bad he is such an oil stooge.
Well, perhaps Mr. Layton's comments are somewhat unwarranted, but I can understand where he's coming from. He and his party are advocating for the abolishment of private health care in Canada, whereas Mr. Klein is advocating for the opposite — for the strengthening of health care through the near-promotion of private health care.
While I oppose for-profit health care in Canada, perhaps it would be a reasonable compromise, so long as it is either of the Provincial or Federal Governments, or both, who pick up the extra cost — I never want to see the increased prices of private health care directly reach Canadians.
While I oppose for-profit health care in Canada, perhaps it would be a reasonable compromise, so long as it is either of the Provincial or Federal Governments, or both, who pick up the extra cost — I never want to see the increased prices of private health care directly reach Canadians.
have a look at chapter 11 of NAFTA and then a gander at what the US system is like. Those of you who aren't listening to Layton are idiots. Those of you who think Klein is right are so f*cking deluded that claiming to be human is stretch.
F*ck it though, I'm tired of dealing with morons and I appear to be immortal, or at least preternaturally capable of limping through anything. Do what you want. When you lose your house because of corporate induced cancer, I'll come and piss on the pauper's grave they dig for you.
If you aren't dead yet...well, some people pay extra for that.
F*ck it though, I'm tired of dealing with morons and I appear to be immortal, or at least preternaturally capable of limping through anything. Do what you want. When you lose your house because of corporate induced cancer, I'll come and piss on the pauper's grave they dig for you.
If you aren't dead yet...well, some people pay extra for that.
I most certainly did not say that Klein was right. Again, I oppose for-profit health care in Canada. I believe that our current system of public health care needs to be strengthened. But unfortunately, in some cases, the Government's hands are tied when it comes to the decisions of the Provinces.
If my response was not directed at you, fivepairsofmedics, your name would be in there. We need some more like you. And beer.
Edited because I left out a word that reversed the meaning.
Edited because I left out a word that reversed the meaning.
Reverend Blair said:
Ah, Rev, as always, I am overwhelmed by the calm reason so carefully expressed in the above post.
The point is simple....what Alberta has done has lowered wait times by as much as 90% for some orthopedic surgeries. That is a good thing. Anyway, the Federal government can not control what Alberta does in an area of solely provincial jurisdiction.
Besides which, have you ever noticed how quiet the Feds are on Quebec and private medicine? You realize, of course, the capital of privatization of medical services is not Edmonton, but Montreal. And not a word is spoken.
Seriously, you have to give up the ideal of single- provider medical care in Canada. It is a dead issue, it no longer exists, it is gone, and it ain't coming back.
Now the aim has to be the defense of socialized medicine for the needy.
The only province in which public health care is no longer supported by the Courts, and therefore perhaps could be deemed "gone" is in Québec; and only until such point as the National Assembly or the House of Commons legislates a program that would satisfy the Judiciary. In nine out of ten provinces (well, perhaps eight, considering Alberta's stand on the issue), public health care is still the primary service for citizens.
:roll: you should take into account that some people don't share the same strict idealogical viewpoints that you do.
Fact is that Alberta is showing the rest of Canada what can be done with publicaly funded health care by those willing to challenge convention. Sure some of the surgeries were contracted out to private clinics, but I think the results speak for themselves. A drop from 35 weeks to 6 weeks on wait times to see a specialist, and a drop from 47 weeks to 4.5 weeks in actualy undergoing procedure after consultation. And the plan to expand this model to other areas of treatment should be looked at as an opportunity.
This experiment in Alberta offers hope that smarter and targeted spending may help solve problems in medicare. I think it is going to take time for people to understand that simply throwing more money at the problem does not necessarily lead to results.
agreed...... I am not the largest Klein supporter either, but I think Jack Layton and (SOME) of his followers seem unable to recognize any progress unless it idealogicaly suits them. I think challenging health care in Canada is for some odd reason "taboo". A society as advanced as Canada should not be stuck in the past, and open public debates with all alternatives and ideas should be encouraged, not shot down.
I guess thats the million dollar question, innit :wink:
Roy said:
Wow I was going to say that Alberta was scaring the rest of Canada away from what Klein is doing. In fact you are out of touch with what most Canadians think, even Tory's. Anyone even on the right I talk with say Klein is just a red neck hick from the west and doesn't represent Conservative values of the rest of the nation. The Premier Ontario had for awhile, Mike Harris was popular at first with his populist retoric but became very unpopuler fast here in Ontario and in fact when he was trying to push for some Alberta like legislation the PC's were tossed from office and punished harshly at the polls. Keep in mind this was such a blow to the neo conservative agenda in Ontario, Neo cons have lost the PC party itself with the election of John Tory (A pretty good guy who I've actually met) who is a "Red Tory" and seen more of a centre-rightist. I'm glade he was elected as PC as he reflects the values of the magority of Canadians, and people from centre-left to centre right can have him as premier without feeling sick. Mr Klein on the other hand.... I can't say too many good things about him.
I will give him due in one... ONE area. That would be Senate reform. He took a brave stance on this issue and he got my respect there and I will always give the devil his due when he does something good. See unlike people like Klein, who just blankly dismisses someone as a "that socialist scum" or "that liberal bleeding heart" without seeing the quility in things which that person stands for shouldn't be elected to a place of power. People like Klein and Mike Harris divide us. We need more people like John Tory, Layton, Rae and even Martin to run this nation. They are not perfect people but they can at least be level headed when it comes to working with others (at least at times).
I didn't add Harper to my list because only recently has he acted like a moderate and he has said many ignorant things in the past like Klein. But I think people can change and do change so I hope Harper has changed. If he becomes the next PM I really do hope he has had a change of heart.
klien IS a redneck hick from the west!
but he is in redneck land, and his stirring the pot gets the talk going. more importantly it gets some real action taken.
He for certian is not a national leader, but he contributes in his own way. I personally don't like his politics, but i would rather see a politician i disagree with that stands up for something than an uneffectual, stanceless drone.
but he is in redneck land, and his stirring the pot gets the talk going. more importantly it gets some real action taken.
He for certian is not a national leader, but he contributes in his own way. I personally don't like his politics, but i would rather see a politician i disagree with that stands up for something than an uneffectual, stanceless drone.
Re: RE: Layton attacks Klein
He's a drunk, little arrogant basterd who pretty much can't stand the rest of Canada and doesn't mind saying something retarded every few months so he can get some press.
If he wantedto contribute to Canada he would retire now. He is one of the biggest threats to Canada and he is hurting the nation.
I laugh at the fact that every coo's over what he has done for Alberta, but it's not hard when you are sitting on oil and in a market hungry for oil even a retard like Klein, can be both powerful, conservative, greedy and drunk all the time. Imagin how much better Alberta would be with a capable leader in power. Once all the oil is gone, and the oil companies have abandend Alberta the so called conservative strong hold will come crawling back to the Liberals and NDP asking for a bigger share of the pot.
I almost can't wait.
the caracal kid said:
He's a drunk, little arrogant basterd who pretty much can't stand the rest of Canada and doesn't mind saying something retarded every few months so he can get some press.
If he wantedto contribute to Canada he would retire now. He is one of the biggest threats to Canada and he is hurting the nation.
I laugh at the fact that every coo's over what he has done for Alberta, but it's not hard when you are sitting on oil and in a market hungry for oil even a retard like Klein, can be both powerful, conservative, greedy and drunk all the time. Imagin how much better Alberta would be with a capable leader in power. Once all the oil is gone, and the oil companies have abandend Alberta the so called conservative strong hold will come crawling back to the Liberals and NDP asking for a bigger share of the pot.
I almost can't wait.
you are absolutely correct about klein just being made to look good when anybody can look good fiscally if they had the oil windfalls alberta does. klein is an oil whore to put it mildly. look into the mess northern alberta is being turned into because of the oilsands projects and you will see what i mean.
Alberta is like the realm of dwarf-lords from LOTR. The greedy buggers just want to strip the resources for profit as fast as possible with nothing other than greed driving them. If you have ever been to canmore you will have seen the large scar on grotto mtn that is predicted by some to be undermining the stability of the entire mtn, then there is the drying up of the bow river but who cares when water can be lost forever being pumped down wells to get the last drop of oil out.
enough though.... i better stop before i really get going on why i loath alberta.
Alberta is like the realm of dwarf-lords from LOTR. The greedy buggers just want to strip the resources for profit as fast as possible with nothing other than greed driving them. If you have ever been to canmore you will have seen the large scar on grotto mtn that is predicted by some to be undermining the stability of the entire mtn, then there is the drying up of the bow river but who cares when water can be lost forever being pumped down wells to get the last drop of oil out.
enough though.... i better stop before i really get going on why i loath alberta.
drop in wait times? at clinics?
klein being what klein is has no bearing on the validity of his proposals. It may have bearing on the number that are good vs the number that are bad, but that is another story. I was just putting it out front what i think of him and his oil whoring. When i then say he has a potentially good solution to medical delivery nobody can say i am saying it because i am a neocon or a klienster.
klein being what klein is has no bearing on the validity of his proposals. It may have bearing on the number that are good vs the number that are bad, but that is another story. I was just putting it out front what i think of him and his oil whoring. When i then say he has a potentially good solution to medical delivery nobody can say i am saying it because i am a neocon or a klienster.
How come nobody is talking about the drop in wait times in Saskatchewan or the fact that Manitoba has the lowest wait times in the country?
That's been done under the public system and it's been done at a lower cost than what Klein has done.
It is those that see privatisation a the only way to go who lack imagination. They also lack an understanding of the full situation.
That's been done under the public system and it's been done at a lower cost than what Klein has done.
It is those that see privatisation a the only way to go who lack imagination. They also lack an understanding of the full situation.
rev, what are the stats on services in Sask? what are the waittimes, doctor-patient ratios,etc.
if you can provide that and somebody can provide alberta's, (or other provinces as well) it would be interesting.
i wonder if there is a relation between a province's growthrate and patient waittimes. When you consider the lag between a population boom (like all those hoping to cash in on oil flocking to AB) and service catch-up i wonder how the numbers pan out.
i also would be interested in comparing the services covered between provinces since we all know it is not a level playing field.
edit: the histories of the provinces would be interesting as well. i wonder if some of alberta;s delivery problems stem from the system not recovering from Klein's slash and burn back whenever (i do apologize for my lack of knowledge on the prarie provinces, but i just never had a reason to study them)
if you can provide that and somebody can provide alberta's, (or other provinces as well) it would be interesting.
i wonder if there is a relation between a province's growthrate and patient waittimes. When you consider the lag between a population boom (like all those hoping to cash in on oil flocking to AB) and service catch-up i wonder how the numbers pan out.
i also would be interested in comparing the services covered between provinces since we all know it is not a level playing field.
edit: the histories of the provinces would be interesting as well. i wonder if some of alberta;s delivery problems stem from the system not recovering from Klein's slash and burn back whenever (i do apologize for my lack of knowledge on the prarie provinces, but i just never had a reason to study them)
Re: RE: Layton attacks Klein
Because this thread is about the orthopedic care experiments done in Alberta Rev. Don't complain about no one talking about Sask or Manitoba, and instead start a thread about it.
Orthopedic specialists, nurses, and physiotherapists were made into teams, with the goal to drastically cut wait times.... and it worked very well. I would encourage others to read about it, as these kind of projects can prove valuabe to Canadian health care. Simply ignoring the results because you hate Klein or Alberta, sadly shows a lack of judgement and idealogical barriers.
Reverend Blair said:
Because this thread is about the orthopedic care experiments done in Alberta Rev. Don't complain about no one talking about Sask or Manitoba, and instead start a thread about it.
Orthopedic specialists, nurses, and physiotherapists were made into teams, with the goal to drastically cut wait times.... and it worked very well. I would encourage others to read about it, as these kind of projects can prove valuabe to Canadian health care. Simply ignoring the results because you hate Klein or Alberta, sadly shows a lack of judgement and idealogical barriers.
Actually, this thread is called "Layton Attacks Klein." That makes positive things happening within the public system very relevant to the thread, Roy.