Why aren't immigrants welcome in Alberta, Canada?


Dervish_Khan
#1
Venerable residents of Alberta,

I have come to realise, after careful observations and analysis, that most local people in Western Canada seem to oppose, if not, disvalue immigration. This, in my humble perspective, is rather poignant and unfortunate. However, what is even more tragic is the fact the prevalance of reported cases of racism and discrimination seem to be quite high in those areas. Now, you may not be content with immigration, but resorting to incivility by promoting racism is unacceptable.

Presumably, there are descent and liberal-minded people in Alberta, etc., but the great majortiy, based upon the general outlook in Toronto, is, in various ways, either involved in or do condone acts of discrimination. For instance, a few years ago as I was driving on my way from Toronro to Vancouver, I stopped at numerous coffee shops to sip some tea and, being the only "brown" person in the coffee shop, I immediately drew the attention of the entire crowd all of whom were of European descent. That time I spent in Alberta was, by far, the most profound and shocking time of my life. Only then did I realise that those glamorous and rosy images of Canada that we were so elated to see were not a reality in certain parts of the country.
 
bluealberta
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Venerable residents of Alberta,

I have come to realise, after careful observations and analysis, that most local people in Western Canada seem to oppose, if not, disvalue immigration. This, in my humble perspective, is rather poignant and unfortunate. However, what is even more tragic is the fact the prevalance of reported cases of racism and discrimination seem to be quite high in those areas. Now, you may not be content with immigration, but resorting to incivility by promoting racism is unacceptable.

Presumably, there are descent and liberal-minded people in Alberta, etc., but the great majortiy, based upon the general outlook in Toronto, is, in various ways, either involved in or do condone acts of discrimination. For instance, a few years ago as I was driving on my way from Toronro to Vancouver, I stopped at numerous coffee shops to sip some tea and, being the only "brown" person in the coffee shop, I immediately drew the attention of the entire crowd all of whom were of European descent. That time I spent in Alberta was, by far, the most profound and shocking time of my life. Only then did I realise that those glamorous and rosy images of Canada that we were so elated to see were not a reality in certain parts of the country.

Sorry you feel that way, and sorry for your experience. However, I urge you to not let one incident affect your viewpoint of Alberta. In most areas, we are very tolerant and accepting of anyone. What we are most united in out here is our mistrust of Ottawa and Liberals, which seem to go hand in hand. We also take a live and let live philosophy, but if a group wants to get in our face, we don't generally have a problem getting back in their face. There are many cultures in Alberta, and we are generally happy to have the diversity. As with anywhere, however, there are people who have no tolerance, and this is not limited to Alberta. I think if you read some of the other threads on this forum, you will not a great intolerance from many posters to Alberta.
 
Reverend Blair
#3
Blue...I know a fair number of minorities. One place I worked, visible minorities would not cover Alberta or Saskatchewan because of the racism they encountered there. If they had to go to a major city, they would do so grudgingly, but outside of Calgary, Edmonton, Regina and Saskatoon...and we had a lot of customers in small towns...they simply refused to go. They all got together, went to the bosses and said, "Nope, sorry, not doing it."

I've spent enough time in those places to know that they have a point. So had the other white guys there, so we all stood behind their decision and agreed that we would go instead.
 
LadyC
+1
#4
Sounds like your "visible minorities" are a tad racist themselves.
 
Reverend Blair
-1
#5
Sounds to me like you are making excuses for a very real problem, C.
 
LadyC
#6
How so, B?
A few minorities you used to work with refuse to work in a couple of provinces and that's not racism to you? How about if I refused to work in an area that had a large number of natives or Asians or whoever?

I'm not making excuses so much as you're turning a blind eye to a different form of racism.

Do you honestly think that only white people are racist?
 
Reverend Blair
#7
They didn''t refuse to work in Manitoba or BC or New Brunswick, C. They quit going to Alberta and Saskatchewan because they were faced with racism and didn't think they should hae to put up with it.

Just to make things clear, Albertans are not a race. Rednecks are not a race.

These guys didn't mind working with any race, they just refused to be abused by racists. I'm pretty damned white and they never had a problem with me, for instance. I never ridiculed them for their accents or their skin colour though.
 
LadyC
#8
They refused to work in Alberta and Saskatchewan, presumably because of the rednecks. Rednecks would be white guys, right?

Again... if I refused to work in an area that had a large number of natives or Asians or whoever, would that be okay?

Sorry, B. No matter which way you try to spin this, it's racism.
 
Reverend Blair
#9
Sorry, C...your inanity doesn't work here. I'm white. They had no problem with me. The majority of their co-workers were white. They had no problem with them. The majority of our customers in eight other provinces and one territory (no locations in the other two) were white, and there was never a problem there.

The problem was that these these people, skilled technicians who paid taxes and were Canadian citizens, had to deal with racism on the job, in hotels, in restaurants, and everywhere else they went in Saskatchewan and Alberta.

Don't try to blame it on them, don't try to blame it on me. It was something that happened. I grew up in Saskatchewan. I still consider it to be my home province. I won't defend or ignore racism there though. I won't do it for Alberta either. Or anyplace else.

So tell me that I just hate white people, or westerners, or whatever the hell your next line is going to be. The fact is that you are trying to protect people who would judge a man by the colour of his skin. That makes me want to puke.
 
LadyC
#10
Are you seriously still trying to spin this?

I don't care if you're white. I don't care what 8 other provinces and 1 territory were like. Your co-workers refused to work in 2 provinces because of some racism they had encountered on past visits.

What kind of a sampling are we talking about, B? Was it a few people? 50%? More?

They prejudged the people of 2 provinces based on the actions of some.

Read my posts, and then read your replies. What I said and what you said I said aren't the same at all.

Quote:

The fact is that you are trying to protect people who would judge a man by the colour of his skin. That makes me want to puke.

No... that's what you're doing, B.
You're just trying to spin this so it looks like I am.
 
Reverend Blair
#11
They judged whether they could work in two provinces due to the actions of a significant reaction they received there. You want to know why us white guys backed them up, even though it meant that there would be significantly more work and travel time for us? Because we'd all been standing there when some redneck said something like, "The last guy was a darkie from Toronto and I don't think he knew what he was doing."

You know what? That "darkie" from Toronto was one of the people who trained me. I never heard any complaints about the white guys from Toronto though. Or the white guys from Vancouver. I did hear about "that chink". Of course he's Korean, not Chinese, and helped to design some of the equipment. He also woke up at 4:00 in the morning to meet a 6:00 flight with a part on it, then drove back out to this little town so the racist bastard who owned the place could make a living.

Try to twist things all you want, C. I'm just really glad that I'm white because I sure as hell would have done more than refused to serve these bastards.
 
no1important
#12
I know when I lived in Calgary in the mid 80's for 18 months. If you were not White you were treated like ****. I saw it first hand many times and some of those small rural Alberta towns were worse. You were mocked or laughed at if you "dared" to help or stick up for people being racially harrassed.

I remember this Girl who used to work with me. She was Jamacian and to make a long story short I was suprised she was not lynched or me for working with her,by a bunch of thugs in white bed sheets. You would not believe the hell she went through and finally quit after 3 1/2 weeks. It really was sickening. Of course nothing happened to the ***'s that were being racist.

A person does not understand racism until you are a victim of it or see it first hand.

Actually Alberta has lots of similarities with the Southern US, in more ways than one.

Then I moved to Winnipeg and worked in a place called Elie and another town called Kindersley(sp) in the late 80's and truth be told it was the total opposite of the tough guy, redneck attitude that was prevalent in Alberta. People did not seem so narrow minded, there were some though, like everywhere else but not on the scale Calgary and Alberta had.

Of course that was 15-20 years ago, so maybe things have changed. I dunno. But from what I read and hear from politicians things have not changed that much.

[OT]Actually I found Manitobians to be some of the nicest people I ever met. Had a great many dinners with people I never really new or were friends of a friend. They would invite you in, open their house up to you, cook you dinner. I still have friends I keep in contact with from Winnipeg and area.[/OT]
 
Reverend Blair
#13
Manitoba likes to reserve their racism for the natives, No1. That is especially prevalent in the Winnipeg Police force.

That being said though, when I first moved here I was struck by two things...the relative lack of racism (and I by no means think that there is no racism here...there's a ton. The key word is relative) and the fact that the bars kick you out so soon after last call.
 
no1important
#14
Quote:

Manitoba likes to reserve their racism for the natives, No1. That is especially prevalent in the Winnipeg Police force

That is true. I remember I worked in an apartment downtown at 411-Cumberland and saw how they treated the natives, that were living in there. Not very nice at all. I worked their as a "rent a cop" for a couple months before I got my first welding gig, I was 20 at the time.
 
LadyC
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

They judged whether they could work in two provinces due to the actions of a significant reaction they received there. You want to know why us white guys backed them up, even though it meant that there would be significantly more work and travel time for us? Because we'd all been standing there when some redneck said something like, "The last guy was a darkie from Toronto and I don't think he knew what he was doing."

You know what? That "darkie" from Toronto was one of the people who trained me. I never heard any complaints about the white guys from Toronto though. Or the white guys from Vancouver. I did hear about "that chink". Of course he's Korean, not Chinese, and helped to design some of the equipment. He also woke up at 4:00 in the morning to meet a 6:00 flight with a part on it, then drove back out to this little town so the racist bastard who owned the place could make a living.

Try to twist things all you want, C. I'm just really glad that I'm white because I sure as hell would have done more than refused to serve these bastards.

Keep spinning, B. Whatever way you want to twist things, you're judging a whole province based on the actions of a few.

That's racism.

You must be getting dizzy.
 
mrmom2
#16
Quote:

Manitoba likes to reserve their racism for the natives, No1.

no1impotant wrote
I've seen why they treat natives this way no1 when I was a kid going out to the lake with mt uncle and grand parents the natives used to play chicken with us on the highway They used to intimidate everybody going out there.You start threatening the elderly and public in general your going to get a negative response
 
Said1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Keep spinning, B. Whatever way you want to twist things, you're judging a whole province based on the actions of a few.

That's racism.

You must be getting dizzy.

You know, you have a point, not every single person in Alberta is racist or acts in a discrimintaroy fashion towards those from other countries or provinces. I trust the time spent there, and the Albertans you personally know also reflects your opinion of Albertans. With that said, I've experienced discrimintation in that province due to my Ontario "roots", and have seen racism in it's sickest forms within my own community here in Ottawa. Racism is everywhere in Canada, the problem with Albertans tends to be that many (notice I didn't say all) dislike anything non-Albertan. Which is funny, cause when I lived there (for 12 yrs) no one was from Alberta.

Just out of curiosity, didn't Klein try to be Liberal at one time, eons ago?
 
Reverend Blair
#18
Quote:

You know, you have a point, not every single person in Alberta is racist or acts in a discrimintaroy fashion towards those from other countries or provinces.

I never said every single person. I never said it was restricted to just those two provinces either. Prejudice and bigotry are more prevalent in Alberta and Saskatchewan, especially in the rural areas. Denying it instead of confronting it just allows the attitudes to spread.
 
mrmom2
#19
Rev have you ever experianced what I was talking about in my last post in this thread?I was talking about lake Winnipeg
 
DasFX
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Venerable residents of Alberta,

I have come to realise, after careful observations and analysis, that most local people in Western Canada seem to oppose, if not, disvalue immigration. This, in my humble perspective, is rather poignant and unfortunate. However, what is even more tragic is the fact the prevalance of reported cases of racism and discrimination seem to be quite high in those areas. Now, you may not be content with immigration, but resorting to incivility by promoting racism is unacceptable.

Presumably, there are descent and liberal-minded people in Alberta, etc., but the great majortiy, based upon the general outlook in Toronto, is, in various ways, either involved in or do condone acts of discrimination. For instance, a few years ago as I was driving on my way from Toronro to Vancouver, I stopped at numerous coffee shops to sip some tea and, being the only "brown" person in the coffee shop, I immediately drew the attention of the entire crowd all of whom were of European descent. That time I spent in Alberta was, by far, the most profound and shocking time of my life. Only then did I realise that those glamorous and rosy images of Canada that we were so elated to see were not a reality in certain parts of the country.

As a fellow "brown" person, I must say making general comments about all 9 million western Canadians is unfair. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist but I think many visible minorities play this card way too much. You drove across the coutry and from that you can state that discrimination is high in those areas?

You went to coffee shops, and they looked at you? So what? Could it be that you are simply a stranger and as a visible minority perhaps they were curious as they don't see many. Is it their fault that all the coloured folk move to Vancouver and Toronto so the proportion of European decent people is higher?

You know, I've been to India a few times and let me tell you, when a European person enters a store, everyone looks at them. Does that mean Indians are racists? Racism is not a "white" issue. It goes both ways.

To label a region of the country as racist from a few curious looks is deplorable and in fact I would say that the comments are racist them self.
 
Said1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Quote:

You know, you have a point, not every single person in Alberta is racist or acts in a discrimintaroy fashion towards those from other countries or provinces.

I never said every single person. I never said it was restricted to just those two provinces either. Prejudice and bigotry are more prevalent in Alberta and Saskatchewan, especially in the rural areas. Denying it instead of confronting it just allows the attitudes to spread.

I didn't say you did, and if you didn't notice the sarcasm following what you quoted, I must be slipping.
 
Reverend Blair
#22
Quote:

Rev have you ever experianced what I was talking about in my last post in this thread?I was talking about lake Winnipeg

Sorry...I missed that post.

Not here. I have experienced it elsewhere though. Some of it grows from resentment, some of it is just old fashioned racism.
 
Dervish_Khan
#23
DasFX,
Greetings to you,

I kindly request that you allocate some of your priceless time to re-read my initial post, for I never stated that the entire population of Alberta was made up of racists. That is an absurd and inmature thing to say. Nonetheless, racism, in various forms and methods, is still an undeniable fact in Canada. There are people out there who condone, support and exercise racism.

What happened to the millions in the West who congregated in Town-halls during and after the great wars and chanted "Keep Canada White" ? Did they vanish into thin air? What happened to their offsprings, their families? I bet you that this hateful ideology is and has been transmitted through generations.
 
Dervish_Khan
#24
Quote:

You know, I've been to India a few times and let me tell you, when a European person enters a store, everyone looks at them. Does that mean Indians are racists? Racism is not a "white" issue. It goes both ways.

It may, to a certain extend, be correct. Alas, I have never been to India nor do I possess sufficient knowledge about Indian customs and traditions. Hence, I will not be able to account for why those people gazed at you.

But believe me, racism has its roots in Europe. Of course, by that I do not mean to say that people of European descent are racists. Europe has apparently learnt from its mistakes.
Nevertheless, history has shown that many of the documented cases of racism involved Europeans. In fact, the idea of race-based nation-states was introduced by the Europeans.
Who do you think enslaved the millions in Africa? Why do you think the hundreds and thounsds of Jews in Spain escaped persecution by seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire? Who, in your knowledge, mass-murdered millions of Jews during the second world war? Who invaded North Africa and slaughtered millions of local people? Which anthropologists measured people's physical attributes and classified them as "white" and "non-white"? Who introduced racism to South Africa? It was the Europeans.
[/quote]
 
DasFX
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Hence, I will not be able to account for why those people gazed at you.

I'm not white, so nobody gazed at me.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

But believe me, racism has its roots in Europe. Of course, by that I do not mean to say that people of European descent are racists. Europe has apparently learnt from its mistakes.
Nevertheless, history has shown that many of the documented cases of racism involved Europeans. In fact, the idea of race-based nation-states was introduced by the Europeans.
Who do you think enslaved the millions in Africa? Why do you think the hundreds and thounsds of Jews in Spain escaped persecution by seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire? Who, in your knowledge, mass-murdered millions of Jews during the second world war? Who invaded North Africa and slaughtered millions of local people? Which anthropologists measured people's physical attributes and classified them as "white" and "non-white"? Who introduced racism to South Africa? It was the Europeans.

As a first generation Canuck of south east Asians, I must say that your statement is completely false. If I am to believe that the civilizations of India, China are as old as they claim then it is obvious that racism is older than Europe.

It is easy to paint one people a certain way when you can pick and choose your examples like you have. Descrimination and prejueduice in non-white nations if huge. For instance in India, fairer coloured people in the north are treated much better and much more desirable than darker people of the south. All one has to do is watch a typical Indian movie. The hero and heroine are both fair, almost white, whereas the evil villian is dark. You talk about aparthid, what about the Caste system which kept people at certain levels of society based on family name (which is genetics).

These incidents are not as prominent cause Asian history isn't as prominent here.

You said I should believe you and your claims about racismn in Western Canada. Why? What makes you an expert? Because you had a few odd looks at Tim's in Medicine Hat or Lethbridge?

I go to small towns in Ontario and folk look at me, but they are only curious, they want to learn. You shouldn't be so quick to judge!
 
Dervish_Khan
#26
Thanks for the promptness and swiftness with which you attended to my previous post. Let me just saythat I also am aware of the caste system in India. But it is commonly believed that the Indo-Iranians(North Indians, Persians, Kurds, Punjabis, Kashmiris) who introduced the caste system to the Indian subcontinent are of Caucasoid stock. This means they are classified as "white". This again supports my initial belief that racism has its roots in Europe. In fact, it does not take an expert to know why Hitler was very sympathetic towards Persians and Indians.
 
Jo Canadian
#27
Having lived in Alberta for several years I did notice one thing. As many of you have mentioned there is Racism there, but also tolerance. What I noticed though was that many of the different groups of people there tended to "stay with their own kind" moreso than I've seen in some other provinces. This doesn't mean they're racist, but the lack of contact between members of these people does create some misunderstandings between groups.

I saw more racism after 911 though. Good friends of mine would yell at anyone looking middle eastern, "Get off the Road you Terrorist!!" And many of the people where I worked also had that sentiment. I spent many fun hours debating the profiling thing with them.

It also goes both ways there, I've had native people calling me racist and shi* because I was doing my job (bouncer) and not letting those who have overindulged onto the premisis. To me that excuse is a cop out. Also as mentioned in a previous post:The Battle for Union Supremacy in the Oilsands

Quote:

ooooooooo. I'd have to get the name of the union my buddy worked in when he was working at the camp. He's usually quite outspoken and speaks out if he sees things that aren't right. In the end, that only got him jacked around and fired, especially after he complained about racism. He may be white but the Lebaneese running many top levels of the things weren't very accomodating to non lebs. If I get hold of him at some point I'll get the name.

Since I was more or less raised as a minority I got used to hanging around with different groups of people, and tried continuing to do so down south. That's where I noticed especially in Alberta and BC that everyone stuck with thier own groups and that each group had many misconceptions of the other groups. My Inuk buddy who went to school at USask, also had a rough time there for being native and had a hard time trying to hang out with any group that wasn't like him.

All I can say is try to hang around as many different people as possible and you end up getting to kill a few myths about these people...Including rednecks, some of them are pretty cool.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Sounds like your "visible minorities" are a tad racist themselves.

That's not racism. Just because they are *afraid* (might the wrong word) to go back to an area and refuse to provide a service there isn't racism.

A basic search on the Internet provides this definition:
"Racism refers to the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently based on their ascribed race. "

Unless I read the post incorrectly, there was no indication that the visible minorities (VM's) Rev B was referring to made any racial remarks towards the people living in the area they refused to go into. Furthermore, there was no indication that the VM's touted themselves as being superior nor were they attempting to treat those people differently when they *were* there.

LadyC, Is this analogous to your argument?
I go to a restaurant, they treat me bad by making me feel inferior. I don't want to go there again. My friend calls me up to have dinner there, I say no. Am I racist?

Quote:

I'm not making excuses so much as you're turning a blind eye to a different form of racism.

Please educate me on the form of racism you are referring to. I can't seem to put a name to it.
 
LadyC
#29
Would you refuse to eat in any restaurant because of your experiences in the one?

They didn't refuse to go back to "an area"... they refused to work in 2 entire provinces because of what they called racism.

Maybe racism isn't the right word... I don't know, and frankly I don't care. To judge an entire group of people based on the idiocy of a few is wrong, regardless of what you want to call it.
 
LadyC
#30
Quote:

Unless I read the post incorrectly, there was no indication that the visible minorities (VM's) Rev B was referring to made any racial remarks towards the people living in the area they refused to go into. Furthermore, there was no indication that the VM's touted themselves as being superior nor were they attempting to treat those people differently when they *were* there.

They encountered racism while on business in Alberta and Saskatchewan so they refused to go back for fear of more racism. They prejudged the entire population based on the actions aof a few.

How about you give that a name?
 

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