Why aren't immigrants welcome in Alberta, Canada?


Reverend Blair
#31
They refused to go back to two provinces because they constantly confronted with racism in those places, C. They had experienced enough to decide that they weren't going back.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Keep spinning, B. Whatever way you want to twist things, you're judging a whole province based on the actions of a few.

That's racism.

You must be getting dizzy.

Generalizations are a part of everyday life. You make them without even knowing it. For example, if you bought a car that gave you nothing but trouble, you might make a generalization about that type of car or manufacturer. Based on that experience, you made a generalization, but that doesn't mean all the cars are like that, it might be just the one you bought.

It's very easy to make generalizations based on the actions of a few. Just look at the war in Iraq and Afghanistan brought upon by the actions of a few.
 
LadyC
#33
You realize your post just supported what I've been saying, right?

And B... whatever excuses they want to give, it doesn't make them right.
 
Jo Canadian
#34
It would make them uncomfortable to live in that environment though. Why live in a place where (even if it is some) people would make you feel uncomfortable, ostracised, or even safe? If it were me I would move to where I would feel more at ease. I've done it before, and it because I was white. (mind you where I went was all native too, but they all knew me)
 
LadyC
#35
No-one asked them to move anywhere. They refused to do business there.

However... why assume you'll be uncomfortable, ostracized, or unsafe before getting to know any of yur potential neighbours?
 
cdn_bc_ca
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Would you refuse to eat in any restaurant because of your experiences in the one?

No, I wouldn't go back to *that* restaurant because of my experience there. (replace restaurant with province in my examples).

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

They didn't refuse to go back to "an area"... they refused to work in 2 entire provinces because of what they called racism.

2 provinces could be considered "an area". Heck 3 provinces could be considered an area too

Maybe racism isn't the right word... I don't know, and frankly I don't care. To judge an entire group of people based on the idiocy of a few is wrong, regardless of what you want to call it.[/quote]

I see your point, but to me, that is not racism... as there was no indication of one race/group/whatever being superior/inferior to another.

I think the word you are looking for is "Prejudice".
Here the definition I found on the Internet:
"Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgement on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies....Sometimes this is a matter of fallaciously extending one's own experience to the general case. In other cases, it may be a matter of early education; those taught that certain attitudes are the "correct" ones may form opinions without weighing the evidence on both sides of a given question."
 
LadyC
#37
Like I said, I don't care what word you want to use, it's wrong to prejudge a group of people based on the actions of a few.

Regarding your definition of "area"... you're quibbling. Your restaurant analogy doesn't really work either, as you're still willing to eat out... you've just boycotted a particular restaurant. (presumably not the entire chain?)
 
cdn_bc_ca
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

You realize your post just supported what I've been saying, right?

And B... whatever excuses they want to give, it doesn't make them right.

No, you are saying the VM's were/are racist... which is not what I'm saying.

To generalize doesn't mean to be racist. Example, humans drink water, is that racist?
 
LadyC
#39
You gave an example of a car. If I owned, say, a Honda Prelude that gave me grief and I vowed never to own a Honda again... I'm generalizing. Is it a fair generalization? No. Is it racist? No, again... unless you insert "East Indian" for "Honda Prelude".

Not very good with the concept of analogies, are you?
 
cdn_bc_ca
#40
I give up

I apologize. As a token of my appreciation, let me take you on a stroll of LA, South Central to be exact where I was originally from. If you make it out alive and unscathed, I'll be glad to take you back the next week because I know you won't refuse... besides, if you do, you're racist.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

You gave an example of a car. If I owned, say, a Honda Prelude that gave me grief and I vowed never to own a Honda again... I'm generalizing. Is it a fair generalization? No. Is it racist? No, again... unless you insert "East Indian" for "Honda Prelude".

Not very good with the concept of analogies, are you?

Umm.. okay. The example of the car was a generalization. The restaurant example was the analogy.

Okay, I'm outta here. Nice debate though.
 
LadyC
#42
All right... I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at, so I'll make a few assumptions.

If the area consists of gangs of a specific race, then my being racist would depend on why I feared to go back. If it were the gangs members themselves... in other words, their "colours" then I'm just being sensible. If it were black people in general (or whatever) then I would be racist.

B's VMs refused to go back to the area... is that right? Are they excused for what you or I would be criticized for?
 
Vanni Fucci
#43
I don't know C...

I don't how things work in lotusland, but I do know this...here in the Peg, the Main Street bars are patronized by a predominantly native clientele...that said, I'm not in any hurry to go drinking in any of the Main Street bars on a Friday night...why? Mostly because I would encounter more bull**** than I'm willing to endure without a fight...and I'd probably lose...

Now, do I think that everyone in those bars is going to give me a hard time? No I do not...

Do I think that every patron of those bars is native? No I do not...

Do I think that I will be given a hard time, every time? Most likely...at least that's been my experience in just being in the area at certain times...

Does this mean I'm racist for not wishing to patronize Main Street bars? Hard to say, but I don't think I am...
 
LadyC
#44
Turn this around, then, Vanni. What if I as a white woman refused to go to Manitoba for an assignment because the last few times some Natives made me feel uncomfortable with their racist comments?

Wouldn't you rightly label me a racist myself?
 
Vanni Fucci
#45
I think the problem here C, is that we are both over-generalizing...in Blair's example, the two VM's may or may not have said that they refused to go to Alberta or Saskatchewan, but in reality they were refusing to provide service to the clients in those provinces because of earlier instances of racism they'd endured, at the hands of some of those clients...
 
Vanni Fucci
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Turn this around, then, Vanni. What if I as a white woman refused to go to Manitoba for an assignment because the last few times some Natives made me feel uncomfortable with their racist comments?

Wouldn't you rightly label me a racist myself?

No, because you're making a judgement, based on experience...you are not deriding any race, you are just avoiding the uncomfortable situation you experience with the racist comments...would I consider you racist, no I would not...a little jittery or timid maybe...

Now, if you said "I'm not going to Manitoba because of all them f**king Indians"...that would be racist...making a decision, in order to avoid potential racism, is not...
 
LadyC
#47
You don't have to be rude to be racist.

But if I read that right, it's okay to avoid people of certain races on the assumption that they will all be racist toward me... and that's not racist.

Good to know.
 
Vanni Fucci
#48
I see your point C, and I can see this is a touchy subject that has no easy answer...and so, I'll retreat for now, and give it some more thought...
 
Reverend Blair
#49
Is it an assumption if you have encountered it several times and others have witnessed the same thing?

Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.

Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.
 
LadyC
#50
They took some cases of racism from a few people and attributed it to the population as a whole.

What would you call that, B?
 
mrmom2
#51
Ever been to a kareoke bar down there Lady C ? I haven't because I value my life so does that make me a racist?
 
LadyC
#52
Down there? Where's down there?

It's hardly racist to avoid a bunch of people who think they can sing. I'd call that smart on your part. :P

BTW... I had a great time in your fair city on the weekend. The rain even held off till we were halfway to Merritt. If you had a hand in that.... thanks.
 
Reverend Blair
#53
Quote:

They took some cases of racism from a few people and attributed it to the population as a whole.

Give it up, C. They faced racism and decided they weren't going there anymore.
 
LadyC
#54
I calls 'em as I sees 'em B.

You can spin this till you upchuck, it's not going to change the basic facts.
 
bluealberta
#55
[quote="Reverend Blair
Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.

Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.[/quote]

What I find ironic here is that virtually all of the posts have come from people outside Sask and Alberta.

Rev, you made the point "Is it an assumption if you have encountered it several times and others have witnessed the same thing? "
There is an area in our town where natives congregate and generally drink and lay about. This is beyond debate, it happens all the time. Certainly not all natives in our town frequent this area as most of the native population in our town are too busy working, but this area is dominated by natives. If we all see this, does this make us racist if we choose not to go there in order to avoid being accosted? I have said on many other posts that I have many native friends and acquaintances. On the other hand, I have been accused by natives of stealing land, etc. simply because I am white. Obviously I have had nothing to do with anything relating to these claims, but because I am white living in southern Alberta, I get this. To me, this is racist. Quite frankly, your continued references to Albertans as bigotted and redneck is racist, or at the very least prejudicial and ignorant. Until you stop your prejudicial and racist comments, then you really have no leg to stand on during this debate.
 
bluealberta
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Just to make things clear, Albertans are not a race. Rednecks are not a race.

Missed this the first time through. Many people would say that gays are not a race either.

Your redneck comment only reinforces your prejudices and bigottry to Albertans: AGAIN
 
DasFX
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Thanks for the promptness and swiftness with which you attended to my previous post. Let me just saythat I also am aware of the caste system in India. But it is commonly believed that the Indo-Iranians(North Indians, Persians, Kurds, Punjabis, Kashmiris) who introduced the caste system to the Indian subcontinent are of Caucasoid stock. This means they are classified as "white". This again supports my initial belief that racism has its roots in Europe. In fact, it does not take an expert to know why Hitler was very sympathetic towards Persians and Indians.

You make it sound that racism is something inherent with Aryans. This is obsurd. I agree, there have been well-documented cases of racism by Europeans, but it doesn't mean it is solely a European thing. People aren't born hating people, certain perceptions and experiences and the human tendency to generalize is the root of this problem. To stamp out racism, the negative perceptions must be eliminated. The holocaust didn't succeed because Germans or Germanic people hate Jews. I suspect that Hitler hated Jews, based on event in his own life and he was able to sell this negative perception and take advantage of a demoralized Germany in the 1940's.

As for today's racism, I believe most of it stems from the victims themselves. Many visible minorities have this inferiority complex stemming from the past when their people were oppressed. I mean, if people all look at you in a coffee shop and the first thing you think of is that it is racism, I'd say that is paranoia. I've seen is with my own parents. They wouldn't apply for promotion cause they assumed they wouldn't get it because of their skin, or they would stick with their own kind cause they assumed others would not accept them.

Immigrants today are paranoid and whiners with inferiority complexes. They don't know what racism is or how bad it could be. And in my opinion, they are just as racist as everyone else.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX


Immigrants today are paranoid and whiners with inferiority complexes. They don't know what racism is or how bad it could be. And in my opinion, they are just as racist as everyone else.

OMG! You are going to open up a can of worms with that statement. Better put your flame-suit on.
 
DasFX
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_ca

Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX


Immigrants today are paranoid and whiners with inferiority complexes. They don't know what racism is or how bad it could be. And in my opinion, they are just as racist as everyone else.

OMG! You are going to open up a can of worms with that statement. Better put your flame-suit on.

I'm the prodigy of two 1960's immigrants. I know what I'm talking about, I see it first hand. Bring it on. I see how immigrants were before when things were worse and how they are today when things are pretty damn good.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX

I'm the prodigy of two 1960's immigrants. I know what I'm talking about, I see it first hand. Bring it on. I see how immigrants were before when things were worse and how they are today when things are pretty damn good.

So in summary, evil begets evil?

So my question is, when does an immigrant stop being an immigrant or are they immgrants forever?
 

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