Why do we need to pray?

[sanctus]

Fr. C. Vaillancourt

God desires that we establish a relationship with Him, He always speaks to us even though we don't know it, He has given us our conscience as a voice that tells us what is good and what is bad. He guides us with the Holy Spirit and He teaches us the way to go, He has sent His Son to redeem us and to establish the true way to Him.
Jesus founded His Church on the Apostles and we have learned about our faith through the teachings of the Church.
But faith starts within, as a flame that needs to be fuelled, it hungers for knowledge it hopes to come closer to its goal which is to be united to God. After all this is the plan of God, that we know Him, love Him and serve Him.
Through prayer we can cultivate our faith, we can come closer to God, we can receive the knowledge and wisdom to know Him more intimately and ultimately we can love Him by accepting His commandments and by loving one another.
Prayer then is an expression of our faith, since by the virtue of piety we are moved to seek God, to please Him and to trust Him in all our needs.
Prayer is an act of trust, because we don't see God and yet we come to Him, it is like negotiating with someone who will give us a very great deal. Everything that comes from God is good, so we have nothing to lose when we come respectfully in prayer before Him, but we have so much to win.
Every prayer is listened to, although some prayers are not answered the way we expect. Perhaps we are not praying in accordance with the will of God, perhaps we are unknowlingly giving instructions to God. Let us be very humble when we pray, so that our prayer does not become an insult.

 

[AndyF]

Perhaps we are not praying in accordance with the will of
God, perhaps we are unknowlingly giving instructions to God. Let us be
very humble when we pray, so that our prayer does not become an insult.

Since there must have been a billion people who have recited the Lord's
prayer since it was taught, I wonder if someone was ever granted to be
never "lead into temptation"(tested). I suppose once again we can
assume a billion people were giving instructions, or not humble enough,
or were insulting.

It follows then if this is true, is that a prime example of a "snake of rejection when a fish was asked for".?

AndyF

 

[karrie]

Everything that comes from God is good, so we have nothing to lose when we come respectfully in prayer before Him, but we have so much to win.
Every prayer is listened to, although some prayers are not answered the way we expect. Perhaps we are not praying in accordance with the will of God, perhaps we are unknowlingly giving instructions to God. Let us be very humble when we pray, so that our prayer does not become an insult.

I was probably only ten years old when I was looking around at the congregation of our church, and the sheer number of people getting down on their knees every day, to pray, to ask things of God, struck me. I swore from that moment on that I would never ask for anything for myself, and only pray *for* something, in the most extreme cases. My aunt dying of cancer, her son, my cousin, dying in a car accident shortly thereafter, these were two of the rare times that I ever knelt to pray for anything. Instead I kneel in thanks. No matter how bad things look, I kneel, and find the things I have to give thanks for, the strength my beliefs have given me, the people I have to support me through trying times, these are the sorts of things I focus my mind upon when I pray.

Even in the most awful times, it's turned out to be a blessing to have to sit down and find all the things I have to be glad about, and the things that I have that are worth moving forward for.

 

[karrie]

Since there must have been a billion people who have recited the Lord's
prayer since it was taught, I wonder if someone was ever granted to be
never "lead into temptation"(tested).

Well, technically, doesn't the prayer ask that God not lead us into temptation? Most people practising within organized religion would tell you that God listens to this prayer, and He himself does not lead us to temptation, but other forces may. Perhaps if we'd just gotten the wording right, the world would be a less tempting place.

 

[hermanntrude]

Lord, please make my life simple and easy in all ways. For thine is the kindom....

 

[AndyF]

Well, technically, doesn't the prayer ask that God not lead us into temptation? Most people practising within organized religion would tell you that God listens to this prayer, and He himself does not lead us to temptation, but other forces may. Perhaps if we'd just gotten the wording right, the world would be a less tempting place.

Well, there are some that claim this to mean "do not lead me to the test". In modern day terms maybe "take it easy on me".

Delivering us from evil in the next sentence could be an extension of the previous line and taken togeather, "help keep me away from the temptation of evil".

In any case I was just interested in the wording in context of the thread.

AndyF

 

[karrie]

Well, there are some that claim this to mean "do not lead me to the test". In modern day terms maybe "take it easy on me".

Delivering us from evil in the next sentence could be an extension of the previous line and taken togeather, "help keep me away from the temptation of evil".

In any case I was just interested in the wording in context of the thread.

AndyF

Well, if you take it in the context of 'take it easy on me' as you said, then it could still be said that God listens to this prayer. It always amazes me the human capacity to create problems where there are none. The presence of difficulties does not necessarily mean it was God's doing. I know plenty of people with wonderful skills at creating drama when their lives get boring. I think no matter how you pray, you simply can't expect to be protected from yourself, even if the prayer didn't offend or instruct . I think no matter how perfect things were for us, we'd cause destruction and chaos somehow, someway.

And again, in the context of 'keep me away from the temptation of evil', God can only do so much. He can't remove our own free will, which is often what puts us in the situations to be tempted in the first place. It doesn't necessarily mean that the prayer wasn't heard, or was rejected.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Well, technically, doesn't the prayer ask that God not lead us into temptation? Most people practising within organized religion would tell you that God listens to this prayer, and He himself does not lead us to temptation, but other forces may. Perhaps if we'd just gotten the wording right, the world would be a less tempting place.

i never understood this, why would god lead us into temptation anyway? if he does, how can he blame us for being tempted if he is the one leading us that way?

 

[karrie]

i never understood this, why would god lead us into temptation anyway? if he does, how can he blame us for being tempted if he is the one leading us that way?

i guess why should he have to be any more consistant than any of the other parents of the world? lol

 

[canadarocks]

I often wonder why we need to pray anyway. Dosen't God already know what we want aand need?

 

[canadarocks]

Well
And again, in the context of 'keep me away from the temptation of evil', God can only do so much. He can't remove our own free will, which is often what puts us in the situations to be tempted in the first place. It doesn't necessarily mean that the prayer wasn't heard, or was rejected.

Here are few ideas about how to forgive.

1) Perfect forgiveness comes through Jesus, who compensated for the offenses we committed against Him by sacrificing His own life. In order to forgive, we must, therefore, surrender our will to God by desiring nothing except to do and accept His will.
2) Sacrifice our hurt and pride, just as Jesus humbled Himself and sacrificed His life for us, in order to bring forgiveness and healing to those who offend us.
3) Constantly remember that we are sinners who are forgiven by the sacrificial body and blood of Christ.

 

[m_levesque]

I often wonder why we need to pray anyway. Dosen't God already know what we want aand need?

Remember that God always answers each one of our prayers. It's just that the answer is not always what we might be looking for.

Keep in mind that God is our Father. If we are petitioning Him through our prayers, it is like a small child asking his parent for something he wants. A loving parent always listens to his child, but will doesn't always say "Yes" all the time. What God's answer is, and the timing of His answer, will be in accord with His Will and what your loving Father knows is best for you.

God may answer your prayers in suprising ways, but it will be on His time table.

 

[L Gilbert]

Dear Yahweh,
Betcha $5 million that you can't zap me with lightning.
Amen

Ah, sh|t. His timetable? lemme see, the big bang took a couple million years to happen and the bible said it was 6 goddays (not the Aussie word for good day either) so I can expect to get zapped somewhere near never.

 

[the caracal kid]

How laughable.

We read stories time and time again that raise serious questions not just about those indoctorinated into religion but the qualities of their deities.

How many people prayed when the coal-miners were trapped, yet those prayers to save the miners were not answered, yet around the same time a woman who prayed to win the lottery won and attributed it to prayer.

Humans are helplessly habituated animals and their deities are all too human.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Everything that comes from God is good...

Really? Can you explain this from 2 Kings?

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

God sends a couple of bears to maul 42 children to death for what was apparently the mortal sin of making fun of a holy man's baldness. It's quite clear in context that this came from god; tell me what's good about it.

Sometimes I wonder if you've actually read the Old Testament sanctus. The god that appears there is cruel, jealous, vengeful, spiteful, greedy, a mass murderer multiple times... He tries to make Abraham barbecue his son Isaac but intervenes at the last minute with "Stop, it's okay, I was just testing you," and there's another case later on where he doesn't intervene and Japthah has to sacrifice his daughter. There are a hundred such examples of god's savagery in the OT. I see nothing good about it. He's an ogre, not worthy of respect or worship. I'd bow down before Shrek before I'd bow down before that version of god.

 

[sanctus]

I often wonder why we need to pray anyway. Dosen't God already know what we want aand need?

Yes, of course, but prayer isn't about presenting a shopping list to God. Prayer is, in essence, a relationship, a joining if you will. Prayer is our sustenance and link to our Creator.

 

[sanctus]

Really? Can you explain this from 2 Kings?

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

God sends a couple of bears to maul 42 children to death for what was apparently the mortal sin of making fun of a holy man's baldness. It's quite clear in context that this came from god; tell me what's good about it. .

Now you're falling into the protestant heresy of literally interpreting passages from Scripture The two Books of Samuel, known as First and Second Kings, is essentially the stories of the first two Kings in the line of David. what you've quoted is obviously not literal, nor should it be viewed as such. It is metaphoric indicating mocking God, in this case represented by the prophet, the children representing us, or people in general. The point of the story is that mocking God will bring His disfavour upon us, and eventually our lack of salvation and descent into Sheol(Hell)

bow down before Shrek before I'd bow down before that version of god.

In general, the sense of Sacred Scripture is the truth actually conveyed by it. We must well distinguish between the sense and the signification of a word. A good dictionary will give us, in the case of most words, a list of their various possible meanings or significations; but no reader will be tempted to believe that a word has all these meanings wherever it occurs. The context or some other restrictive element will determine the meaning in which each word is used in any given passage, and this meaning is the sense of the word. The signification of the word is its possible meaning; the sense of a word is its actual meaning in any given context. A sentence, like a word, may have several possible significations, but it has only one sense or meaning intended by the author. Here, again, the signification denotes the possible meaning of the sentence, while the sense is the meaning which the sentence here and now conveys. In the case of the Bible, it must be kept in mind that God is its author, and that God, the Sovereign Lord of all things, can manifest truth not merely by the use of words, but also by disposing outward things in such a way that one is the figure of the other. In the former case we have the literal sense; in the latter, the typical

 

[sanctus]

i never understood this, why would god lead us into temptation anyway? if he does, how can he blame us for being tempted if he is the one leading us that way?

Upon the interpretation of the Lord's Prayer, much has been written, despite the fact that it is so plainly simple, natural, and spontaneous, and as such preeminently adapted for popular use. In the quasi-official "Catechismus ad parochos", drawn up in 1564 in accordance with the decrees of the Council of Trent, an elaborate commentary upon the Lord's Prayer is provided which forms the basis of the analysis of the Our Father found in all Catholic catechisms. Many points worthy of notice are there emphasized, as, for example, the fact that the words "On earth as it is in Heaven" should be understood to qualify not only the petition "Thy will be done", but also the two preceding, "hallowed be Thy name" and "Thy Kingdom come". The meaning of this last petition is also very fully dealt with. The most conspicuous difficulty in the original text of the Our Father concerns the inter pretation of the words artos epiousios which in accordance with the Vulgate in St. Luke we translate "our daily bread", St. Jerome, by a strange inconsistency, changed the pre-existing word quotidianum into supersubstantialem in St. Matthew but left quotidianum in St. Luke. The opinion of modern scholars upon the point is sufficiently indicated by the fact that the Revised Version still prints "daily" in the text, but suggests in the margin "our bread for the coming day", while the American Committee wished to add "our needful bread". Lastly may be noted the generally received opinion that the rendering of the last clause should be "deliver us from the evil one", a change which justifies the use of "but" in stead of "and" and practically converts the two last clauses into one and the same petition. The doxology "for Thine is the Kingdom", etc., which appears in the Greek textus receptus and has been adopted in the later editions of the "Book of Common Prayer", is undoubtedly an interpolation. In the liturgy of the Church the Our Father holds a very conspicuous place. Some commentators have erroneously supposed, from a passage in the writings of St. Gregory the Great (Ep., ix, 12), that he believed that the bread and wine of the Eucharist were consecrated in Apostolic times by the recitation of the Our Father alone. But while this is probably not the true meaning of the passage, St. Jerome asserted (Adv. Pelag., iii, 15) that "our Lord Himself taught His disciples that daily in the Sacrifice of His Body they should make bold to say 'Our Father' etc." St. Gregory gave the Pater its present place in the Roman Mass immediately after the Canon and before the fraction, and it was of old the custom that all the congregation should make answer in the words "Sed libera nos a malo". In the Greek liturgies a reader recites the Our Father aloud while the priest and the people repeat it silently. Again in the ritual of baptism the recitation of the Our Father has from the earliest times been a conspicuous feature, and in the Divine Office it recurs repeatedly besides being recited both at the beginning and the end.

 

[m_levesque]

How laughable.

We read stories time and time again that raise serious questions not just about those indoctorinated into religion but the qualities of their deities.

How many people prayed when the coal-miners were trapped, yet those prayers to save the miners were not answered, yet around the same time a woman who prayed to win the lottery won and attributed it to prayer.

Humans are helplessly habituated animals and their deities are all too human.

So if you feel this way why would you bother reading and taking part in a Christian Discussion? Does it make you feel like a big man to mock the beliefs of others?

 

[AndyF]

karrie:

Thanks for the post.

"It always amazes me the human capacity to create problems where there are none."

The line is a request for assistance that was prompted by an invitation from Christ if evil occurs, not one that states a problem exists.

"The presence of difficulties does not necessarily mean it was God's doing."

The prayee makes no such claim, and he merely places his trust on God's promise to grant his prayer.

"I think no matter how you pray, you simply can't expect to be protected from yourself, even if the prayer didn't offend or instruct."

Your coming to His defence again where it is not needed, and I cannot break my trust in God in this way. In fact God's Word is you can expect all the way.

Just 2 issues that I can see.

Even if God agrees to grant some prayers, there would be evidence that would be happening. There'd be people walking around trying to understand what the rest of us are complaining about in this harrassment we get from evil. These would have hardly experienced temptation at all. The number of saints beatified would have a list that would back up the Vatican for years.

[Usually we get the Ad Hominum police showing up about now whenever a paradox rears it's head. But the fact remains we live in a phenominal world, where we do live experience, and we do note things that are different from others. The very foundation of our thought processes are based on comparison and reason. There is a tendency to accept phenominal occurances whenever they satisfy a positive we would like to be real. If the argument were the reverse, and someone said "Look at all the evidence of prayers being answered by this line in the prayer", then having rejected the negative on the same source of evidence, we cannot accept the positive.]

The second is Jesus did not make the statement "which Father would offer a snake when asked for a fish"(not a direct quote) conditional. He implies the prayer would be granted. People make it unconditional to come in defence of the fact that is not the reality, so therefore "God can only do so much". If He says He will do it, then I discredit God by accepting your implication God doesn't really mean what he says, and that I cannot do. He doesn't need anyone's defence in order for Him to support a truth.

AndyF