What do we think now?

[JLM]

Got a question for JLM, VI, and taloola. How is it that your personal experiences and opinions concerning the 50's vs now are perfectly valid, yet my personal experiences and opinions concerning the u.s. are bigoted, "anti-american" AND incorrect?

How are your experiences and opinions more valid on this subject than mine on another?

I don't recall saying they were. I never had an opinion either way about what your experiences were. The only way I have of knowing anything about you, Gerry, is from what you post on here, in other words what you are telling me and in my mind for my information only I can draw a few conclusions, but they are not necessarily right, because you may throw the odd "curved ball". What I see is a person who angers fairly quickly and who has trouble handling differing opinions calmly without being adversarial. Now your opinion of Americans is 180 degrees from what mine is and we could both be right. I've probably made close to 30 visits to the U.S. in the past 20 years and while down there I've always tried to behave and show the same respect as I would in someone else's house and tried to give the impression that I was very glad to meet whoever it was and I was treated well in return. As far as the original topic goes there is no wrong or right answer, just the answer that suits us.

Memories are funny things. They seem to cover up the ugly with a lot of idyllic stuff so we can all live Leave It To Beaver. Ain't it funny how some folk hide from their yersterdays.

Yep, you sure got that right, BUT I guess we'd all be crazy if we chose to dwell on the bad stuff. It just makes a person miserable and hard to get along with. :lol::lol:

 

[VanIsle]

Got a question for JLM, VI, and taloola. How is it that your personal experiences and opinions concerning the 50's vs now are perfectly valid, yet my personal experiences and opinions concerning the u.s. are bigoted, "anti-american" AND incorrect?

How are your experiences and opinions more valid on this subject than mine on another?

Gerry - I have never once commented on your personal experiences and opinions concerning the US. I don't think I have ever put "pen to paper" regarding anyone's feelings regarding the US. I may have, but I doubt it. Karrie's point seems to be that we are making our experiences "personal". How else could we talk about our experiences without making them personal? There are probably parts of our stories that may come from rose coloured glasses. How much attention to all those details do you think a kid is looking at? For me, life at that time was better. Unless you were living the life of an abused kid via residential schools, bad parents or whatever, as a kid, life was good. You have to admit that things like single mothers/fathers was almost un-heard of at that time. I had a friend who's father had passed away and everytime we were in the school field that overlooked the funeral home she cried. I couldn't understand her crying. I had never lost anyone in my life by then. I couldn't know what she was feeling. We grow older, we learn more, life changes for us as a society and as individuals. In 1959 I was a kid having fun, never knowing anything bad was out there. One of my (MY) worst memories of around that time was of standing on a kitchen chair, terrified out of my mind, jumping up and down because the neighbours house was on fire. I wasn't old enough to be afraid for them. I was afraid my house was going to burn down.
I took the question very literal. I took it to mean how was life for me in and around 1959 and I answered accordingly. I think that's what JLM meant and I think it's how Talloola took it too. Was it better then? Yes! For me it was.

It's not that people don't believe you lived the life you did. It's that you make sweeping generalizations that life everywhere was perfect back then, and today every teenager is a horrible, rude, violent drug addict, with no respect for their elders.

Perhaps there were things that you weren't aware of back then, and just maybe there are decent teenagers around today. Just maybe.

You have neither quoted nor addressed anyone. I have to assume that since your post is directly under mine, you are generally talking to me. In light of the fact that I have continually stated that my conversation and experiences are based on growing up where I did and in a very small town, there is nothing near sweeping generalizations whatsoever. In fact, I'd say I've been pretty specific.
In regard to kids today. The reality is, a lot of kids are improving.There's a lot of really great kids out there. Some of the 10 year olds and even the 12 year olds can use some fine tuning but that will come in time. There was a period of time where all the kids out there were getting pretty obnoxious but I think parents began to see it and decided they needed to do something and they did. I used to work with a lot of young kids (17 - 20 yrs) and they are nice kids. I found more people in their late 30's to early 40's to be more obnoxious to both customers and co-workers alike. Most of those kinds of people don't get to stay on the job long. Sometimes the kids with the lip rings and nose rings and even the studed "collars" actually turned out to be some of the nicest kids when they would be the ones I was expecting to lip me off. I learned not to take any of the kids for granted. Young girls do a lot of stealing from the cosmetics department though. They sit on the floor of the store, pretending to be looking, not knowing that a tall security person plus cameras have eyes on them. They take things like eye pencils and lip sticks and shove them up their sleeves. So - if you haven't given your kid money to buy such things and they have them around or they are wearing them - you might want to have a look at how they got the stuff. Boys steal pop or that type of drink. They just walk around the store drinking it and before they leave they set it down. Lots of adults do the same. Remember everytime you go into a store these days - there's the cameras you see and the cameras you don't see.

 

[talloola]

No, my experience with idiot americans. The majority of which were uneducated, selfcentered, egotistical morons. I have been told time and time again that MY experience and opinion is completely wrong. As a matter of fact talloola, you have been one of the people in the past that have "objected" to my opinion of americans.

So, again, why is my opinion of that worth less than your rosy recollections and opinion of the 50's. They are both based on a narrow, personal experience and perspective only.

I'm sure you are right about my criticizing, as the americans do get a bashing on this forum
All I can say, is that if you explained something from 'your' experiences living with them
in their country, and passed those experiences on, I would believe you.
I'm assuming I thought in the past that it is just 'your' views of what americans are like,
but did not know, or didn't think that you had any first hand account of situations.

Giving opinions on other people, from afar, and giving recollections on one's own life growing up, and connected
to the schools and community, is not the same.

In my case, you are getting it from the horses mouth, not sure about how many times stories
have bounced off of people before opinions reach us, concerning americans.

My opinions of the 50's were not 'all' rosy, at all, if you read all my posts there are some
comments there concerning married couples, how women were treated etc., but many women were
treated very well, and had good constructive lives, were independent etc., and many were chained
to their homes, and lived their life as a second class citizen.

I did say I loved life back then, loved the energy around me, lots of work, lots of construction,
and the country was gearing up to move on ahead at a fast pace, with the war behind, and the depression
behind.
I could tell stories about my personal life as a child, which was not good, but no one wants to read
one's own details, that isn't what we were striving for, it was the life in the community, drugs, no
drugs, children's manners then, compared to now, we covered all of that.

People back in the 50's were just as smart, just as good, just as ready to progress as anyone today,
they hadn't done it yet, but were beginning, and without them 'doing' it over the next 20 to 30 years,
the conveniences, medical upgrading, etc., wouldn't be here today, every generation needs the one before
it, to lead the way, people in the 50's were so much further ahead than those in the 40's, (war), and
those in the 30's.

 

[TenPenny]

My opinion has changed; life must have been better in 1959, because I understand there was no autism back then.

 

[JLM]

My opinion has changed; life must have been better in 1959, because I understand there was no autism back then.

Yeah, I think as man continues to screw up the planet you are going to see more and more of these diseases appear. Even cancer was quite rare back in '59, now they are saying every third person is getting cancer and one in six dies from it. There is something radically wrong. Health is suppose to be the norm, not the aberation.

 

[VanIsle]

My opinion has changed; life must have been better in 1959, because I understand there was no autism back then.

sarcasm is everything to some people.

 

[JLM]

sarcasm is everything to some people.

The best way to deal with sarcasm is to just ignore it completely, pass right over and pretend not to see it. A wise person told me many, many years ago that "sarcasm is a weapon of the weak"- not that I'm not guilty of reverting to it once in awhile myself, when people just get too contemptable. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

lol quotes on sarcasm are varied.
Here's a couple I like:
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive." - Dunno who said that.
"Sarcasm helps keep you from telling people what you really think of them." - Dunno who said that.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"A sarcastic person has a superiority complex that can be cured only by the honesty of humility." - Lawrence G. Lovasik[/FONT]


Either way, "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

 

[L Gilbert]

Anyway, back to the topic .....
A lot of things are better and a lot of things are worse in quite a few aspects of life. Technology, for instance. I think it's great that vehicles are not carburated anymore, but fuel-injected. However, there's a lot of garbage in vehicles these days that is geared toward profitability rather than feasibility. Instead of having decent headlamp systems we have immensely expensive buckets housing the bulbs. ABS brakes are great. The fact that a mechanic needs to partially pull an engine in order to change 1 spark plug is insane. Or your left taillight doesn't work because the fuse in the stereo blew out and they're on the same circuit.
Life's just different, not better or worse.

 

[JLM]

Anyway, back to the topic .....
A lot of things are better and a lot of things are worse in quite a few aspects of life. Technology, for instance. I think it's great that vehicles are not carburated anymore, but fuel-injected. However, there's a lot of garbage in vehicles these days that is geared toward profitability rather than feasibility. Instead of having decent headlamp systems we have immensely expensive buckets housing the bulbs. ABS brakes are great. The fact that a mechanic needs to partially pull an engine in order to change 1 spark plug is insane. Or your left taillight doesn't work because the fuse in the stereo blew out and they're on the same circuit.
Life's just different, not better or worse.

I think you are probably right.

 

[talloola]

I think you are probably right.

yup, lots of differences, some good, some not.

 

[JLM]

yup, lots of differences, some good, some not.

I think the saddest part is that we pretty well have the ability to be better on all fronts, we have the wealth, we have the technology- it's mainly our attitude that is holding us back, that and lack of respect for our fellow humans and other occupants of the planet, and inability to recognize important priorities and mostly GREED. A few people do get the picture, like the executive couple from L.A. who quit their jobs, sold everything they had, moved out to the sticks and started living off the land. Their health immediately took a huge turn for the better and at the same time they had quit polluting the planet.

 

[talloola]

I think the saddest part is that we pretty well have the ability to be better on all fronts, we have the wealth, we have the technology- it's mainly our attitude that is holding us back, that and lack of respect for our fellow humans and other occupants of the planet, and inability to recognize important priorities and mostly GREED. A few people do get the picture, like the executive couple from L.A. who quit their jobs, sold everything they had, moved out to the sticks and started living off the land. Their health immediately took a huge turn for the better and at the same time they had quit polluting the planet.

society seems to be caught up in making lots of money.

most people want so much, buy way over their heads, and really have no
idea how simple and healthy and happy life can be, without all the 'stuff'.
those who want the money will work, work, work, and buy, buy, buy, and life goes
by, and all of a sudden they are 50 yrs. old, and can't figure out why things aren't
turning out the way they had planned, they are tired, cranky, why didn't the marriage
work, no time for each other, wow the kids are grown up and gone. hmmmm, lets back up
a giant step, and take a long look in the mirror.

I see the older, simpler houses here in the valley, with little gardens in the back yard,
and I see people who stop to smell the flowers, and appreciate what life has to offer, in
the smallest ways, that mean so much.

 

[JLM]

society seems to be caught up in making lots of money.


I see the older, simpler houses here in the valley, with little gardens in the back yard,
and I see people who stop to smell the flowers, and appreciate what life has to offer, in
the smallest ways, that mean so much.

Exactly.

 

[AnnaG]

I think the saddest part is that we pretty well have the ability to be better on all fronts, we have the wealth, we have the technology- it's mainly our attitude that is holding us back, that and lack of respect for our fellow humans and other occupants of the planet, and inability to recognize important priorities and mostly GREED. A few people do get the picture, like the executive couple from L.A. who quit their jobs, sold everything they had, moved out to the sticks and started living off the land. Their health immediately took a huge turn for the better and at the same time they had quit polluting the planet.

Not much has changed that way since General Omar Bradley said this: “The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”

 

[JLM]

Not much has changed that way since General Omar Bradley said this: “The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”

Geez, I better watch it or I'll be famous like Bradley..............:lol::lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

My posts are my posts, they aren't 'you guys'.
Just point out the details of what you think are not correct, as before,
and I will answer with my opinion and thoughts as I have before, I don't
believe I have generalized, but please point out where you think I have.
Thanks.

My posts relate to the 50's, don't think VanIsle is doing that, she is
younger than I, so perhaps it's the 60's, not sure, she will have to
give that info, but I know she isn't as old as I am, probably 10 or
more years younger.

I don’t think anybody is doubting the veracity of your posts, talloola. Your experiences are your own, and nobody can judge them. However, the society in general was not as you describe (your own experiences notwithstanding).

If you look at statistics, if you look at news items in those days, if you look at the opinions expressed in those days, it is clear that compared to today, 50s was a repressed, puritanical and barbaric society, with no section of the society enjoying the full equality guaranteed by the constitution (except the white male).

well, I guess if you weren't there, then your opinion comes from someone else, so what JLM is saying makes
sense, because you both are hearing from many other people as well as us, and if those reflections are all
different 'to a point', how can you really know what to believe. You just have to pick out the one that
you feel good about, and go with it.
Doesn't do much good to read all sorts of different slants on the 50's 60's and so on, because that is
also someone else's opinion, so that puts you back to square one.

I know exactly what to believe. I believe in numbers and facts. We are healthier, wealthier today and live longer, fact. We are more tolerant today, fact. We are a more just society today, fact.

There were very few female (or black) doctors or lawyers in those days, fact. Gays used to be imprisoned for homosexual acts, fact. Abortion was illegal, so was contraception, fact. Canada used to have death penalty, fact. No universal health care, fact. I could recite numerous facts like this.

One only has to look at facts to figure out which period was the barbaric one and which is the enlightened one.

I don't own the 50's or the 60's etc. I do own my memories of what it was like where I grew up and that's all I'm saying and I think Talloola is trying to say the same thing. I don't think Talloola has moved too far from her birth area nor have I. Maybe it's a little different for those in your family. Maybe they are from other provinces and it was just different there. Their memories are theirs and I'm not trying to take anything from them. However, because they have different memories from us doesn't make our memories wrong.;-)


You were there in 1959. A wee bundle but you were there. As Talloola has already said - I was there as a young kid but I was there. Anyone who hasn't lived in a small town, particularly around that time and even years and years later, may not realize that the same things simply don't happen in small towns as they do in the cities. Even things like music. It took about 2 years for a popular Vancouver song to reach popularity where I lived. The world moved at a much slower pace. Like it or not, I think all of you have to accept our memories as they are. What I really don't understand is why you wouldn't accept them.

I do accept it, as your experience only, not how the society was in those days.

I've said a couple times now that they're talking individual experience, while, not having lived it, I'm looking at it from a societal view. That still gets me essentially a 'no you're wrong' whenever I talk about the changes. *shrugs*

Quite so, there are the individual experiences, which may be quite pleasant (at least when filtered through the fog, mist of time). Then there are facts as to how the society really was in those days. The two may not mesh in every case.

 

[AnnaG]

I don’t think anybody is doubting the veracity of your posts, talloola. Your experiences are your own, and nobody can judge them. However, the society in general was not as you describe (your own experiences notwithstanding).

And your quips about society are dead accurate? roflmao

If you look at statistics, if you look at news items in those days, if you look at the opinions expressed in those days, it is clear that compared to today, 50s was a repressed, puritanical and barbaric society, with no section of the society enjoying the full equality guaranteed by the constitution (except the white male).

Show them. Don't just mention that they back up your point.

I know exactly what to believe. I believe in numbers and facts. We are healthier, wealthier today and live longer, fact. We are more tolerant today, fact. We are a more just society today, fact.

Prove it with something other than you sayso.

There were very few female (or black) doctors or lawyers in those days, fact. Gays used to be imprisoned for homosexual acts, fact. Abortion was illegal, so was contraception, fact. Canada used to have death penalty, fact. No universal health care, fact. I could recite numerous facts like this.

Pollution was less, other species weren't endangered, terrorism was almost non-existent, habitats weren't as endangered, debt wasn't as bad, etc.

One only has to look at facts to figure out which period was the barbaric one and which is the enlightened one.

..... through rose colored filters.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

My opinion has changed; life must have been better in 1959, because I understand there was no autism back then.

Nor was there any child abuse, spousal abuse, sexual abuse by priests, no homosexuality, and so on. Why, such Utopia exists even today, in Saudi Arabia. They have no problems over there.

 

[AnnaG]

Nor was there any child abuse, spousal abuse, sexual abuse by priests, no homosexuality, and so on. Why, such Utopia exists even today, in Saudi Arabia. They have no problems over there.

Yup. Things are definitely utopian today alright. Thanks for adding to my sarcasm.