Universe is 986 billion years older than first thought.

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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For years, we have been taught that the Universe is around 14 or 15 billion years old.

In fact, it couild be 986 billion years older than that according to a British scientist at Cambridge University.


One Big Bang, or were there many?

· New theory tries to solve problem Einstein raised
· Universe may be much older, say cosmologists

James Randerson, science correspondent
Friday May 5, 2006
The Guardian


The universe is at least 986 billion years older than physicists thought and is probably much older still, according to a radical new theory.

The revolutionary study suggests that time did not begin with the big bang 14 billion years ago. This mammoth explosion which created all the matter we see around us, was just the most recent of many.

The standard big bang theory says the universe began with a massive explosion, but the new theory suggests it is a cyclic event that consists of repeating big bangs and big crunches - where every particle of matter collapses together.

"People have inferred that time began then, but there really wasn't any reason for that inference," said Neil Turok, a theoretical physicist at the University of Cambridge, "What we are proposing is very radical. It's saying there was time before the big bang."

Under his theory, published today in the journal Science with Paul Steinhardt at Princeton University in New Jersey, the universe must be at least a trillion years old with many big bangs happening before our own. With each bang, the theory predicts that matter keeps on expanding and dissipating into infinite space before another horrendous blast of radiation and matter replenishes it. "I think it is much more likely to be far older than a trillion years though," said Prof Turok. "There doesn't have to be a beginning of time. According to our theory, the universe may be infinitely old and infinitely large."

Today most cosmologists believe the universe will carry on expanding until all the stars burn out, leaving nothing but their cold dead remains. But there is an inherent problem with this picture. The Cosmological Constant - a mysterious force first postulated by Albert Einstein that appears to be driving the galaxies apart - is much too small to fit the theory. Einstein later renounced it as his "biggest blunder".

The Cosmological Constant is a mathematical representation of the energy of empty space, also known as "dark energy", which exerts a kind of anti-gravity force pushing galaxies apart at an accelerating rate.

It happens to be a googol (1 followed by 100 zeroes) times smaller than would be expected if the universe was created in a single Big Bang. But its value could be explained if the universe was much, much older than most experts believe.

Mechanisms exist that would allow the Constant to decrease incrementally through time. But these processes would take so long that, according to the standard theory, all matter in the universe would totally dissipate in the meantime.

Turok and Steinhardt's theory is an alternative to another explanation called the "anthropic principle", which argues that the constant can have a range of values in different parts of the universe but that we happen to live in a region conducive to life.

"The anthropic explanations are very controversial and many people do not like them," said Alexander Vilenkin a professor of theoretical physics at Tufts University in Maryland. Rather than making precise predictions for features of the universe the anthropic principle gives a vague range of values so it is difficult for physicists to test, he added.

"It's absolutely terrible, it really is giving up," said Prof Turok, "It's saying that we are never going to understand the state of the universe. It just has to be that way for us to exist." His explanation by contrast is built up from first principles.

But if he's right, how long have we got until the next big bang? "We can't predict when it will happen with any precision - all we can say is it won't be within the next 10 billion years." Good job, because if we were around we would instantly disintegrate into massless particles of light.

guardian.co.uk
 

Dexter Sinister

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I haven't read the original article, but that science correspondent got some of the crucial details wrong. The notion of cyclical big bangs and big crunches, for instance, has been around for a long time. It's not new with Turok and Steinhardt. They may have put it on a firmer empirical footing, but it's only a first attempt, it'll have to survive what's certain to be a detailed and deeply skeptical peer review before cosmology accepts your thread title as a correct statement. Einstein introduced the Cosmological Constant into the the field equations for general relativity to produce a solution that described a static universe, not an expanding one. It wasn't known to be expanding at the time, but without the Cosmological Constant the equations predicted an expanding universe. That's why Einstein called it his greatest blunder, he missed a chance to predict one of the most significant findings of 20th century astronomy.
 

ChrisP

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May 10, 2006
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So as the Universe convulsivies through time, expanding & contracting simultaniously. We are going into the future & the past at the same time? Perhaps I missed the point, would we not be ripped apart from the inside out?
 

Dexter Sinister

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Re: RE: Universe is 986 billion years older than first thoug

ChrisP said:
...would we not be ripped apart from the inside out?
Or from the outside in... Doesn't seem likely that anything would survive a crunch and bang except the raw constituents of matter and energy. No information would survive, all structure and order would be wiped out, so we couldn't find out anything about previous cycles anyway, which in turn would mean they couldn't affect us, so it doesn't really matter whether they existed or not. Frankly I've never understood the point of this kind of speculation. It might be true, but if no information survives the cycle, how could we ever possibly verify it?

But if some information *does* survive the cycle, those lads might be on to something fascinating and we'll have to rethink a lot of things. I'll have to try to find the paper.
 

jimmoyer

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Apr 3, 2005
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if no information survives the cycle, how could we ever possibly verify it?

-----------------------Dexter Sinister ------------------------

We'll have come a long way, and maybe we won't
even be the same kind of race when we find that out.

I suspect we humans will father our own evolution
into some species with 400 year old life spans or more
with nanotech re-engineering, with bio-electronics
and this new species will dimly remember who we
were, much less understand how a God-race that
created them were so unendowed and so incompetent.
 

gc

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May 9, 2006
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Blackleaf said:
"There doesn't have to be a beginning of time. According to our theory, the universe may be infinitely old and infinitely large."

Older? Perhaps. Infinitely old...what about Olber's paradox and other paradoxes that suggest the universe can't be infinitely old?

I guess I should go read the article...
 

razorgrade

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Feb 8, 2006
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how about the theory that it has always been there and always will ....

it amazes me how people try to understand something that we never will. it is just far to big for us little guys to fathom.