Tuition sinks students

Should University be free in Canada?

  • Yes for sure!

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  • No way!

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czardogs

Electoral Member
Jul 25, 2002
234
0
16
104
BC
www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca
Post-secondary fees put education 'out of reach' for many in B.C.

Brian Lewis
The Province


Thursday, August 22, 2002

The Province
Summer McFadyen of the Canadian Federation of Students says B.C. is 'slamming the door in the faces of people who want to improve.'

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Spiralling university and college tuition fees across Canada are turning Generation X into Generation D (as in Debt), student and teaching groups charged yesterday as a new Statistics Canada report showed that fees are rising six times faster than inflation.

And in a bid to play catch-up after a six-year freeze, B.C. universities and colleges will boost tuition fees this fall by a whopping average of 25.2 per cent compared with the national average of 4.1 per cent over last year.

The StatsCan report also showed that from 1990-91 to
2000-01, average undergraduate tuition fees increased by 135.4 per cent while inflation as measured by the consumer price index rose by 20.6 per cent.

"The average cost of tuition and ancillary fees and living costs puts a post-secondary education in B.C. out of reach for many British Columbians," said Summer McFadyen, B.C. spokeswoman for the Canadian Federation of Students.

"After a decade of the most accessible post-secondary education in Canada outside of Quebec, B.C. is rejoining the race to the bottom and slamming the door in the faces of people who want to improve their lives."

McFadyen also slammed the Gordon Campbell government for making post-secondary access for students more difficult and at the same time saying it's trying to improve the B.C. economy.

"We've been very surprised that the B.C. government doesn't support accessible education, even though it talks about creating a business-friendly climate in B.C.," she said. "A very key factor in a business-friendly climate and stronger B.C. economy is an educated workforce.

"But at the same time, the B.C. government is closing the doors on students. It even eliminated 11,000 summer student jobs this year and has cut the minimum wage to $6 per hour from $8."

McFadyen said her office regularly hears from B.C. students who, due to a lack of finances, are having to cut back courses or take time off before finishing their education.

Canadian undergraduate students accumulate an average debt of $25,000 by the time they've earned an undergraduate degree, she said.

The Ottawa-based Canadian Association of University Teachers said yesterday: "Canada's universities are in danger of returning to their elitist roots as tuition fees spiral out of control.

"How are we going to attract new doctors to work in rural areas or in public health when they have education debts in excess of $100,000 to pay back?"

The StatsCan report showed that, this fall, undergrad students will pay an average of $3,733 in tuition, which is almost double the $1,872 they paid in 1992-93. Because of the six-year freeze, B.C. students this year will pay an average of $3,165, instead of the $2,527 they paid last year. They'll also pay an average of $399 in additional compulsory fees.

B.C. ranks eighth among the provinces in tuition fee levels. The highest fees ($5,214) are charged in Nova Scotia; Quebec has the lowest tuition fees ($1,851).

blewis@pacpress.southam.ca

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Post secondary education is quickly becoming the territory of the rich. Once this happens the gap between the haves and have nots will only widen. Post secondary education should be FREE for all Canadians that qualify for it. If every Canadian had equal access to education many of our social ills would disappear or be eased. Education is the great equalizer.
I give credit to Quebec for realizing this in part and having the lowest tuition fees on average.
 

Klaus

New Member
Aug 23, 2002
9
0
1
Kitchener
I think education should be free in Canada. To a degree..

I'm not saying we should just give it all away for free. Basic education, yes... But going to uni for 10 years for free? No way. I'm not putting my taxes into giving someone a phD. You have to work for it.
 

Shmad

Electoral Member
Mar 24, 2002
550
0
16
Cache Creek, BC
www.justrant.com
Cyberm4n said:
Education should be free up until a certain level. However, this level should end at grade 12.

Agreed. I think the current College/University tuiton fees are outrageous as well. But I wouldnt want to be PAYING for OTHER peoples schooling AFTER highschool. I mean come on really. Thats like going to the gas station, filling your car and paying for everyone elses gas.

I dont mind paying for "everyones" schooling up until they are out of highschool, but there have to be some limits. I'm not spending my tax dollars so I can pay someones way thru medical school, only to have that same person turn around when they graduate, open a practice and charge me outrageous amounts of money for whatever I need done.... This is why I dont think ANYONE would support this (PAYING taxpayers anyways).

I pay enough tax as it is, I dont need to be paying anymore.
 

czardogs

Electoral Member
Jul 25, 2002
234
0
16
104
BC
www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca
Shmad said:
Cyberm4n said:
Education should be free up until a certain level. However, this level should end at grade 12.

Agreed. I think the current College/University tuiton fees are outrageous as well. But I wouldnt want to be PAYING for OTHER peoples schooling AFTER highschool. I mean come on really. Thats like going to the gas station, filling your car and paying for everyone elses gas.

I dont mind paying for "everyones" schooling up until they are out of highschool, but there have to be some limits. I'm not spending my tax dollars so I can pay someones way thru medical school, only to have that same person turn around when they graduate, open a practice and charge me outrageous amounts of money for whatever I need done.... This is why I dont think ANYONE would support this (PAYING taxpayers anyways).

I pay enough tax as it is, I dont need to be paying anymore.

The thing is you and I are already subsidizing everyone else's education already. Tuition is just to make up the shortfall. Instead of the federal gov. spending money on bs programs and studies they could easily pay the shortfall and there would be no new taxes.
 
Aug 18, 2002
26
0
1
In an Icy Igloo
czardogs, so you are saying that you support paying EVERYONES FULL tuitons then? so the students dont pay anything? What the hell happens to the student loans I have then!? Are you going to pay them off for me too then? Its only fair!
 

czardogs

Electoral Member
Jul 25, 2002
234
0
16
104
BC
www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca
military intelligence said:
czardogs, so you are saying that you support paying EVERYONES FULL tuitons then? so the students dont pay anything? What the hell happens to the student loans I have then!? Are you going to pay them off for me too then? Its only fair!

Yes throw the student loans out. There should be no need for it. The money exists in the system but the willpower to implement it does not.

Some people are missing the point of this post. There will be no new taxes, only money spent like it should be. An educated country is a strong country. Business would thrive as many would relocate here to take advantage of the excellent labour pool. Canada would lead the world in everything progressive. The only stipulations I would put on a free education is:
1) MUST be a Canadian citizen.
2) MUST work in Canada for a minimum of 5 years after finishing school
3) MUST meet the minimum standards for enrollment for each institution.

One could not even start to weigh the benefits of such to any society.
 

Shmad

Electoral Member
Mar 24, 2002
550
0
16
Cache Creek, BC
www.justrant.com
czardogs said:
military intelligence said:
czardogs, so you are saying that you support paying EVERYONES FULL tuitons then? so the students dont pay anything? What the hell happens to the student loans I have then!? Are you going to pay them off for me too then? Its only fair!

Yes throw the student loans out. There should be no need for it. The money exists in the system but the willpower to implement it does not.

Some people are missing the point of this post. There will be no new taxes, only money spent like it should be. An educated country is a strong country. Business would thrive as many would relocate here to take advantage of the excellent labour pool. Canada would lead the world in everything progressive. The only stipulations I would put on a free education is:
1) MUST be a Canadian citizen.
2) MUST work in Canada for a minimum of 5 years after finishing school
3) MUST meet the minimum standards for enrollment for each institution.

One could not even start to weigh the benefits of such to any society.

Yeah cuz the government manages our money so well right now eh! Lol, this would be near than next to impossible to get them to implement, and be sure if it did that "extra" money wouldnt be there and we'd be seeing more hikes in GST and PST taxes to cover it. Even if they have a surplus it doesnt mean they are going to use it to help us out with something like this.

Although I do agree on all your points, I dont see this happening anytime soon.
 

KRISTINA

New Member
Oct 19, 2004
1
0
1
Shmad said:
Cyberm4n said:
Education should be free up until a certain level. However, this level should end at grade 12.

Agreed. I think the current College/University tuiton fees are outrageous as well. But I wouldnt want to be PAYING for OTHER peoples schooling AFTER highschool. I mean come on really. Thats like going to the gas station, filling your car and paying for everyone elses gas.

I dont mind paying for "everyones" schooling up until they are out of highschool, but there have to be some limits. I'm not spending my tax dollars so I can pay someones way thru medical school, only to have that same person turn around when they graduate, open a practice and charge me outrageous amounts of money for whatever I need done.... This is why I dont think ANYONE would support this (PAYING taxpayers anyways).

I pay enough tax as it is, I dont need to be paying anymore.

People, what are you talking about?
1. Nobody is asking you to pay for somebody's school!
2. You don't pay "outrageous amounts of money" if you need a medical attention. In Canada it's free... just to let you know.
3. If they set a limit lets say for a bachelor's degree that everybody could get for free, then it means that YOU would get your bachelors for free, your kids would and everybody else, we would become a more educated society and we all would benefit. It's not like you're the only one working and paying for everybodie's post secondary education! Of course Masters or PhD wouldn't be free, at this point students should start paying from their own pocket.
In France post-secondary education is absolutely free and do you see anyone suffering from that? Do you see dissatisfied french people moving to Canada and complaing about it? No, because it is a good thing!
If you feel so excited and not willing to pay for other people's education, then how do you feel about paying taxes to feed such people like Gordon Campbell or other overfed politicians? OR how do you feel that your tax money going towards people on welfare, that either don't appreciate it at all, or don't use it as a start of something in the future, that is just a waste of your, my and everybody else's money. That's where you should debate, not about free post secondary education. You know why? Because it's a fact of life, it's happening right now (people being on welfare and hiding their actual income or Gord Campbell travelling on your tax money) and free education is not going to happen any time soon, so don't waste your time discussing it and talk about whats going on right now.
Sorry if anyone felt offended! :)
 

bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
Gordo should have put a cap on the amount of increase in tuitions, but he wasn't smart enough to do that, so now all the students are paying the price and society too. Oh but wait, there will be international students who can fill the void of our Canadian students, sorry Gordo I forgot about that wonderful thought you had there.

I believe we need some sort of incentive to get people into school and trades. Like maybe the first year is paid for, and with some people having only 1 year or so left to achieve a designation or certificate they just might continue on with it. At least it would give them a taste of what a chosen career path would be like.
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
They also have free Universities in Germany. We didnt suffer from these problems here... until the Liberal party got elected. They turned 100 million$ worth of scholarships into loans. They increased the tuition fees... The PQ was so near to actually making it free. The liberals ruined it!

When the people are more educated, it benefits all. Higher paying jobs, and they pay more in taxes. So the actually end up paying for their own free education by working and paying their taxes.
 

bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
Re: RE: Tuition sinks students

Numure said:
When the people are more educated, it benefits all. Higher paying jobs, and they pay more in taxes. So the actually end up paying for their own free education by working and paying their taxes.

How true.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Tuition sinks student

A basic degree should be free. Four years, no tuition costs, subsidised book costs, nothing for students to pay for but living expenses. Include everything from arts to construction trades in that.

Subsidise or make free education is specific areas after that depending on the student's willingness to sign a contract guaranteeing services for a set amount of time. If we're short of doctors in rural areas, then give free education to fill that need. If we need engineers, same deal there.

Make continuing education dirt cheap, maybe free. Want to take a night or correspondence course to upgrade your skills? Good...we need skilled people.

BTW, there's an excellent documentary called My Student Loan. If you get a chance, watch it.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
7
38
Victoria, B.C.
Re: RE: Tuition sinks student

Reverend Blair said:
A basic degree should be free. Four years, no tuition costs, subsidised book costs, nothing for students to pay for but living expenses. Include everything from arts to construction trades in that.

Subsidise or make free education is specific areas after that depending on the student's willingness to sign a contract guaranteeing services for a set amount of time. If we're short of doctors in rural areas, then give free education to fill that need. If we need engineers, same deal there.

Make continuing education dirt cheap, maybe free. Want to take a night or correspondence course to upgrade your skills? Good...we need skilled people.

Hotdamn, I knew if I waited long enough someone would post my view on this and then I wouldn't even have to type. :cool: Thanks, Rev.
 

bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
I would have loved a free education. See I paid for my education twice cause I changed my mind after finishing college the first time and went back a second time to get trained in a different field. All while working full time days or nights and raising a baby at the same time. Surviving on 3 1/2 hours sleep isn't easy, but I was bound and determined to be able to take care of myself and my baby should hubby ever decide to leave for whatever reason. I'm a material girl, as Peapod can attest to, and welfare just doesn't pay enough for me.