Toronto councillors vote to rename Dundas St.

spaminator

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Toronto councillors vote to rename Dundas St.
'This is an important moment'

Author of the article:Kevin Connor
Publishing date:Jul 15, 2021 • 5 hours ago • 2 minute read • 349 Comments
A street sign for Dundas St. W. in Toronto, Ont. on Wednesday June 10, 2020.
A street sign for Dundas St. W. in Toronto, Ont. on Wednesday June 10, 2020. PHOTO BY ERNEST DOROSZUK /Toronto Sun
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Toronto City Council voted on Wednesday in favour of renaming Dundas St. and now faces the task of coming up with a new name.

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Henry Dundas was a Scottish politician who played a role in delaying the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade in the late 1700s.


The name Dundas is hurtful to the Black and Indigenous population in the city, council has heard.

Dundas doesn’t deserve the recognition, said Mayor John Tory.

“We are at a moment in time in history to show leadership,” Tory said.

“This is an important moment … to take away the pain. You can never go wrong doing the right thing.”

City staff consulted with 25 Black and Indigenous community leaders as well as BIAs and now are planning the next steps for a public process to rename the street.

Dundas has 90,000 addresses on the street with 4,500 businesses and 60 of those carry the name Dundas.

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City manager Chis Murray says businesses with Dundas in the name won’t be required to change that.

In the fall, the city will reach out to all Torontonians who were to be involved in the name change and provide information on how they can participate.

There are 60 other streets where the city is reviewing if their name should be changed.

There were 14,00 names on the petition that got the ball rolling to rename Dundas, where 97,000 residents live.


Coun. Stephen Holyday unsuccessfully urged council to send the issue back to the city manager to seek more options because he worried about the precedent that would be set by renaming the street.

“Not enough people were consulted. Some effort has to be made to consult them,” Holyday said.

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A street sign for Dundas St. W. in Toronto, Ont. on Wednesday June 10, 2020.
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A street sign for Dundas St. W. in Toronto, Ont. on Wednesday, June 10, 2020. Henry Dundas opposed the abolition efforts of people like William Wilberforce in the British Parliament. Should the street be renamed?
Tory's executive committee takes next step to renaming Dundas St.

The city estimates it will cost between $5 million and $6 million to change street signs and other city properties with the name Dundas.
 
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DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Northern Ontario,
According to the bible.........
The LORD is long-suffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation. ...
1742 would make it the 9th or 10th generation................
And everyone living on that street.....
screw that!
 
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spaminator

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LILLEY: Public supports renaming Dundas St. until they look at the cost
Author of the article:Brian Lilley
Publishing date:Jul 21, 2021 • 5 hours ago • 3 minute read • 18 Comments
An eastbound TTC streetcar makes its way along Dundas Street West in Toronto.
An eastbound TTC streetcar makes its way along Dundas Street West in Toronto. PHOTO BY ERNEST DOROSZUK /TORONTO SUN
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Down with Dundas! Rename the street! Who wants things named for old dead white guys anyway!

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Oh, wait, it will cost money? It will cause problems?


A new poll of Toronto residents by Maru Public Opinion shows that people can be fickle on renaming things even when the claim is that those things were named for people who supported slavery. It turns out, people don’t like all the costs associated with changing one of the biggest and most important streets in the city.

A poll of Toronto residents taken over the past couple of weeks shows a slight majority, 55% of respondents, favour renaming Dundas St. and Dundas Square. That majority is led by the young, the rich, and the woke.

Those aged 18-34 are most likely to support the name change at 74%, followed by those who are the most educated at 65%, and those with the highest annual income of $100,000 per year or more at 64%. The support for changing the name drops, though, once people think about the cost to both government and those living and working on the street about to be renamed.

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Once those factors are presented, suddenly, a majority of 61% oppose the city renaming Dundas St. and Dundas Square. Those aged 18–34 still offer up strong support for renaming at 63% but those who are the highest educated drop from 65% support to 48%, while those earning over $100,000 per year drop their support from 64% to 40%.

Pollster John Wright thinks that it’s less about the cost to taxpayers and more about the practical nuts and bolts of changing a major street name.

“I think that’s when the rubber meets the road. Just imagine your health card, driver’s license, credit card and everything else,” Wright said Wednesday.

Wright is on the money here.

The cost of renaming Dundas St., Yonge-Dundas Square, two subway stations, and more is pegged at $5.1 million to $6.3 million dollars. Governments spending money is nothing new; they do it all the time and often in ways that would make a drunken sailor blush.

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But having to change every card, legal document, mortgage, business card, and more … that hits people.

A city staff report states that there at 4,970 properties on Dundas St. as well as 4,510 businesses, 48,975 dwellings, and 97,673 residents.

Add to this the fact that there are 60 more streets that city staff have said, “could require further examination,” including 12 named for slave owners, and you start to see that this could be an extremely long and cumbersome process.


Other streets that might need to be renamed, if we continue on this path, include Yonge St., Jarvis St., and Wellesley St. — all of which were named for people with stronger ties to slavery and the slave trade than Henry Dundas. Yet, it’s likely most Toronto residents could not have told you who Henry Dundas was or that the street was named for him — most in this city don’t know that these streets are named for long-dead people.

Is it really honouring these men to leave the street names in place if no one knows who George Yonge, William Jarvis or Arthur Wellesley were?

I’m always in favour of looking at the fullness of history — the good, the bad, and the ugly — and learning from it. That applies to these street names. We’d be far better off spending all those tax dollars on things that mattered, including reconciliation efforts.

Few people from the past look good through today’s lens.

All changing the street names will accomplish is making the young, the rich and the woke feel better without actually improving society.
 

spaminator

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Cost drives down public support for renaming Dundas St., says poll
Author of the article:Brian Lilley
Publishing date:Jul 21, 2021 • 5 hours ago • 2 minute read • Join the conversation
A Dundas Street West sign is pictured in Toronto, Wednesday, June 10, 2020.
A Dundas Street West sign is pictured in Toronto, Wednesday, June 10, 2020. PHOTO BY GIORDANO CIAMPINI /The Canadian Press
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Toronto residents are mildly in favour of renaming Dundas St. and anything else associated with the 18th-century Scottish politician until they find out the cost to the government, businesses, and private citizens.

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City council recently voted in favour of dropping the Dundas name following a staff report which stated that his actions, “contributed to the perpetuation of the enslavement of human beings.”


That point is up for debate among historians and academics, but here in Toronto, citizens are dealing with the real-world issue of changing a street name.

When asked about the issue in general for a poll by Maru Public Opinion, 55% said they supported the idea. The poll asked people if they agreed with changing names, “if it is determined that people from even centuries ago played a role in what is considered today to be a wrong or socially unacceptable.”

The strongest support came from younger people, under the age of 35 (74%), those with a university degree (65%), and those earning more than $100,000 per year (64%). Opposition to the idea was strongest among those 55 and over (64%), those with a high school diploma or less for their education (59%), and those earning less and $100,000 per year (48%).

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When presented with the proposed costs of the name change, support swung the other way.

While 55% supported the name change in the abstract, 61% opposed it when told that the name change would cost the city millions of dollars and that, “individuals who live on the street will have to change all of their own government-issued identity papers,” in addition to credit cards and other important documents.


Finally, those polled were asked if they supported the city changing more than 50 other street names due to similar concerns. The public was split with 50% saying they supported the city changing other street and place names and 50% saying they opposed the idea.

Conducted July 9-18, 500 Toronto residents taking part via Maru’s online panel were polled. For comparison purposes, a probability sample of this size has an estimated margin of error of 4.4%, 19 times out of 20.