Maybe it is my perception but if Europe supports something I get the impression that people think the world is behind it. Well if the United States does something it is Unitarianism. The population of Europe is only twice that of the Untied States. The GDP of Europe is not significantly greater then that of the United States. The Land Area of the United States is more then 1/3 of the land area of Europe.
The significance of Europe
- Thread starter s243a
- Start date
Using simple terms, you are thinking that Europe is a single country which it isn't. there are 25 different countries in Europe with the world having 124. Using basic math that means the USA is 1/124th of the world and Europe is 25/124,1/5 of the world or 25 times more. When the US does something it does it alone when Europe does something there are 25 countries involved so which is unitarianism. Size isn't everything--ask your wife or girlfriend.......
Europe......
Europa - The European Union On-Line
Europe......
Europa - The European Union On-Line
There are 27 countries in the EU and around 48 in the whole of Europe, the largest being Russia (the part of Russia that is in Europe) and the smallest being the Vatican City.
Although, if the EU gets its way, all those 27 EU countries may one day become one country: a USE (United States of Europe) which would be a disaster.
Britain ( 244,820 km²) is just outside the Top 10 - it's in 11th place, a tiny bit smaller than Italy in 10th (301,318 km²) and a tiny big bigger than Romania (238,391 km²) in 12th.
Europe has a population of 710 million and the EU has a population of 494 million (compared to only 300 million in the US)
In area, continental Europe is 3,930,000 sq miles, which means it's larger than both Canada and the United States (Canada is 3,854,085 sq miles and the US is 3,718,695 sq mi)
The EU is 1,669,807 sq mi.
The EU is also the world's largest economy - a mammoth $13.881 trillion. The US economy is $13.049 although the US does have a smaller population.
The EU's average GDP per capita is only around 28,000 (Britain is the 6th richest EU country of the 27, with a GDP per capita of $38,624. Only the small nations of Luxembourg, Ireland, Austria, Denmark and Belgium are richer).
That's compared to $35,133 for Canada and over $44,000 for the US.
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While very interesting blackleaf that didn't answer the question. When Europe does something why do people think the world is behind it but when the US does something the world thinks it acts unilaterally. As I stated Europe is more than one country and the European Union which s243a seems to think is all of Europe is as you pointed out now 27 countries. If the EU does anything (which it usually doesn't) it is 27 countries so if ALL Europe did something it would involve 48 countries. As there are 124 countries in the world the US acting as ONE will look unitarianist while Europe will have more of the world involved...8O8O
I don't buy that logic. It is all political spin. So if the united states divided it's self into 52 countries should it have more say in world affairs then Europe?
Yeah I would think population would hold more valance.
USA = 300 million people
EU = 500 million people
Population of Earth = 6 700 000 000
So in essence - USA - 4.5% influence
- Europe - 7.5% influence.
USA = 300 million people
EU = 500 million people
Population of Earth = 6 700 000 000
So in essence - USA - 4.5% influence
- Europe - 7.5% influence.
Or to put it another way between India & China there should be approx 33% influence.
If you wanna get technical the USA is 52 states (thats why they are states not provinces) who merged together the EU is 27 who are still merging. All of Europe only has 48.
Also, the number of countries is not important. Two Monaco's do not equal one India. People and Wealth are the bigger validators.
Also, the number of countries is not important. Two Monaco's do not equal one India. People and Wealth are the bigger validators.
In a sense size doesnt matter. It APPEARS that when europe "does something " or supports something that the world is behind it because, its values are closer to the as yet unrealized values of the wider world than the USA is. Not to say the USA is completely out of step with these --just that it APPEARS to act somewhat more in its own interest--often as a bully -given the wars its been involved in since ww2--because well it does do exactly that. From my vast travels and in depth multicultural communications the EU has a LOT more credibility than the US as a "leader".
But it is a quiet leader.
Quiet and slowly effective--despite some bumps on the way--the constitutional crisis for example--but it appears as if the EU is now from a systems point of view behaving as a self learning, self correcting growing entity--all without war---(serbia excluded)---
a somewhat cumbersome eurocracy in exchange for in infiniitely more wastefull war.
If things go well we may see a vast Europe emerging in the 21 st century--eventually including all of eastern europe and and russia---AND morocco--then tunisia then egypt---slowly slowly growing--and in that growth gradually encouraging democratization stability and peace. In fact it is my personal belief that the only hope for peace for say--israel and palestine and lebanon etc --is that they --organically--over the course of say the next 50 years become incorporated into the eu--There have already been some preliminary steps--very preliminary--the so called barcelona project which is moving forward with a free-trade zone initiative that would include--for example israel.
this is admittedly dreaming--but there is some truth to it. One cannot democratize or stabilize these regions with conquest and war---the europeans have at a gut level realized this---the americans and to some extent the UK havent quite yet--but I believe eventually they will--if real democracy reaches these states--
of interest is that the EU is actually a very abstract entity--in fact theoretically ANY country in the world can become a member --it is not limted by geographic location.
by 2050--Russia, Turkey serbia etc
by 2100--all north africa ie moroco tunisia
--isreal, palestine
by 2150-- syria. saudi, central africa
by 2200--All of africa, persia, afganistan etc
But it is a quiet leader.
Quiet and slowly effective--despite some bumps on the way--the constitutional crisis for example--but it appears as if the EU is now from a systems point of view behaving as a self learning, self correcting growing entity--all without war---(serbia excluded)---
a somewhat cumbersome eurocracy in exchange for in infiniitely more wastefull war.
If things go well we may see a vast Europe emerging in the 21 st century--eventually including all of eastern europe and and russia---AND morocco--then tunisia then egypt---slowly slowly growing--and in that growth gradually encouraging democratization stability and peace. In fact it is my personal belief that the only hope for peace for say--israel and palestine and lebanon etc --is that they --organically--over the course of say the next 50 years become incorporated into the eu--There have already been some preliminary steps--very preliminary--the so called barcelona project which is moving forward with a free-trade zone initiative that would include--for example israel.
this is admittedly dreaming--but there is some truth to it. One cannot democratize or stabilize these regions with conquest and war---the europeans have at a gut level realized this---the americans and to some extent the UK havent quite yet--but I believe eventually they will--if real democracy reaches these states--
of interest is that the EU is actually a very abstract entity--in fact theoretically ANY country in the world can become a member --it is not limted by geographic location.
by 2050--Russia, Turkey serbia etc
by 2100--all north africa ie moroco tunisia
--isreal, palestine
by 2150-- syria. saudi, central africa
by 2200--All of africa, persia, afganistan etc
It is an interesting and well written point of view. However, maybe it is just a more clever way of saying "Europe Knows best".
I think the trend toward bigger and bigger blocs of statehood is really sad. Diversity of regimes means a diversity of culture, and that's really key to preserving ideas that may have the potential to save the world at different times.
If you just have one similar system, you get rid of a lot of other cultural values and ideas and one of the things that sometimes makes America great is that it is willing to incorporate ideas from everywhere at times. But if "everywhere" disappears, that ain't so great.
If you just have one similar system, you get rid of a lot of other cultural values and ideas and one of the things that sometimes makes America great is that it is willing to incorporate ideas from everywhere at times. But if "everywhere" disappears, that ain't so great.
I wouldn't mind India having influence.
It's an ex-British colony, the world's largest democracy and it still has close ties with Britain.
I also think that India has more advantages than China has - India is a democracy, it has what may soon become one of the largest - if not the largest - IT industry in the world and one of its official languages is English.
But Europewill not become a big player. For a start, its demographics are against it.
At the moment, Europe's population is 728 million, around 1/9th of the world's population. By 2050, Europe's population is expected to FALL by 7% to around 653 million.
Of all the large European countries - Britain, Germany, France, Italy and Russia - the populations of Russia, Germany and Italy are falling and only Britain and France's are growing (and Britain will have grown much more quickly than France between now and 2050).
Its because of Britain's growing population and workforce and Germany's shrinking population and workforce than Britain will soon overtake Germany as Europe's largest economy for the first time since 1959.
With all these declining populations Europe or the EU can never hope to become a dominant world power.
But compare that to the US - its population is growing by a huge amount. Its currently 300 millon. By around 2030, America's population will be around 400 million, having grown by a third in just 25 years or so.
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