The early Quran revelations

petros

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He makes more sense than you do. He at least knows how to use evidence and reason to form a conclusion, something you've not figured out yet.
Its not a conclusion, its a personal assumption that isnt evidence based. The only way to quantify is to kill people and bring them back repeatedly. Its too risky and unethical.
 

Dexter Sinister

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That's also impossible. I was referring to Dawkins' whole body of work, which does illustrate what I claimed, not specifically his atheism, though you're not right about that either. In The God Delusion Dawkins treats the claim that there is a personal god as a hypothesis about the nature of the world, examines the usual evidence and arguments offered in support of it, and finds them insufficient to justify accepting the claim as true, plus plenty of evidence that strongly suggests it's not. But even he doesn't conclude that there is no deity, only that on the evidence it's extremely improbable.
 

Jinentonix

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That's also impossible. I was referring to Dawkins' whole body of work, which does illustrate what I claimed, not specifically his atheism, though you're not right about that either. In The God Delusion Dawkins treats the claim that there is a personal god as a hypothesis about the nature of the world, examines the usual evidence and arguments offered in support of it, and finds them insufficient to justify accepting the claim as true, plus plenty of evidence that strongly suggests it's not. But even he doesn't conclude that there is no deity, only that on the evidence it's extremely improbable.
I think "gods" are a holdover from our more superstitious ancient past when we simply used "the gods" as an explanation for things we didn't understand yet.
 
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Let the atheist think whatever he may think with his void conceit, and he will face his dark outcome later on, when he cannot at that time retreat from his falsehood. So dear reader, let not the disbeliever and the atheist cheat you with his asserted decorated words, but know that God is True and His words are the truth.
The Quran tells us much about this and the regret of the disbeliever at last.

[God – be glorified – threatened the deniers of His might and those associating others with Him, and He said in the Quran 46: 34, which means:]
(On the day [of their death] when disbelievers are exposed to the Fire, [they will be asked]: “Is not this the real truth [: neither illusion nor magic, as were you used to say about the Quran?]'
They will say: “Yes indeed, by our Lord! [It is the really true.]”
The [angel tasked with their punishment] will say: “Then taste the chastisement because you disbelieved [and denied the Quran in the life of the World.]”)

 

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[Moreover, God – be glorified – told about the condition of the unbeleivers and the stingy, at the hour of death, and He said in the Quran 23: 99-100:]
(99. Till when death comes to one of them [and he is about to die], he says: "O [angels of] my Lord, return me [to the life of the World.]"
100. "So that I may do charity with [the wealth] which I left behind."
[The angels will say to him:] “No, [there will be no return for you.”]
This merely is a word that he speaks;

for there is behind them a barrier [: that is the devil who will ‘bar and prevent’ them from the expenditure in God's way, if they are returned] till the day when they will be sent forth [from their bodies to the ether world or the world of souls.])

More explanation here:
 

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Quran 50: 28-29 which mean:
(28. [God] [will] say [to them in the Next Life:] "Do not dispute before Me! For beforehand I sent you the threat."
29. The sentence passed by Me cannot be changed s, and I am not in the least unjust to My servants t.)
..........................................................................................................................................................................................

s i.e. don’t hope that I may change My threat and punishment to whom I promised the punishment.
t So I never punish anyone without having done sins.

 

Dexter Sinister

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I think "gods" are a holdover from our more superstitious ancient past when we simply used "the gods" as an explanation for things we didn't understand yet.
We're still doing that, though it seems pretty clear that the more we know about something the less willing we are to allow any role for the supernatural in it, and the circle within which deities can be claimed to operate is shrinking all the time. It's also always seemed self-defeating to me to try to explain something that's complex and hard to understand by invoking something at least equally complex and hard to understand as the cause, because then it too needs an explanation. Saying "God did it" doesn't explain anything, it's just avoiding an explanation.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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We're still doing that, though it seems pretty clear that the more we know about something the less willing we are to allow any role for the supernatural in it, and the circle within which deities can be claimed to operate is shrinking all the time. It's also always seemed self-defeating to me to try to explain something that's complex and hard to understand by invoking something at least equally complex and hard to understand as the cause, because then it too needs an explanation. Saying "God did it" doesn't explain anything, it's just avoiding an explanation.
But there's a shitload of cash in it. Political power too.

Especially when they figured out that "explaining" and claiming you could influence natural phenomena was good for a few skins, promising eternal life was the jackpot.
 
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Comment:
Every man (and woman) sins, and the sins are different: major sins and minor; the sin is God's disobedience, particularly disobeying the Ten Commandments and especially the first one and the most important commandment: not to take another god besides God.
So everyone sins, but the pious and Godfearing avoids the sins as much as he can, while the ungodly plunges in sins and the disobedience of God.
The important sins also include the trespassing on the rights of others.
Now the atheist and disbeliever. in addition to his increased sins, he of course does not repent from his sinning and does not ask God's forgiveness.
While the believer withdraws and retreats from his disobedience and ask God's forgiveness.
On Judgement Day, God Most Gracious and Most Forgiving may forgive the believer who repents and ask God's forgiveness, but will not forgive the disbeliever who was arrogant over his Lord and did not ask His forgiveness and did not repent, but increased in sins and transgression.
So this is the meaning that God does not wrong anyone and will punish them according to their sins and evil work.
In other words: God forgives only the believer, but for the disbeliever He punishes him for every sin and every disobedience and will not forgive him.
 

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Quran 4: 48, which means:
(God does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him a, but forgives [to monotheists ] b anything short of that, to whomever He pleases.
Whoso associates [anything] with God, he has indeed invented a great sin.
)
...........................................................................................................................................................................

a It means: God does not forgive the associaters and idolaters their sins, even though the sins are minor sins; that is because the association is the greatest major sin.
b [who exclusively devote themselves to worship God alone.]

i.e. God does not forgive the sins of the associater and idolater [and atheists who is worse than the idolater] even though his sins were minor sins, but He forgives the monotheist devotee even though his sins were so many: with His mercy and forgiveness.

See the total interpretation of this great aya, which also includes that everyone should check himself about his pure monotheism or association and idolatry:
 

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Related to my post # 70

God - be glorified - said in the Quran 66: 7, which means:
([Then the angels will say to them:] "O disbelievers make no excuses today; you are only requited for [the deeds of falsehood and wickedness] that you did [in the life of the World.]")

 

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God - be glorified - even prevented the prophets to mediate or intercede for the idolater and associater, because these have been destined to Fire forever.
Quran 9; 113, which means:
(It is not for the Prophet and the believers to ask [God's] forgiveness for the associaters, even though they be near kinsmen, after that it has become clear to them that [they were associaters, and that] they [will] be the inhabitants of Hell.)

 

Dexter Sinister

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Comment:
Every man (and woman) sins,
That is possibly the most pernicious idea the mind of man has ever conceived. It's a wicked and frightful thing to tell people, especially children, and the next one is right up there on the top ten list too.
God forgives only the believer, but for the disbeliever He punishes him for every sin and every disobedience and will not forgive him.
Yet you call him merciful. Nice for you that you know what he's going to do, but I suppose such arrogant certainty is to be expected from true believers, only you have the real truth after all. So after knowingly creating us flawed, deliberately misguiding us into wrong doing and demanding we believe in him on bad evidence, he condemns us to an eternity of conscious torment for things he made happen. Even in the very unlikely event that he turns out to be real, I'd have no respect for a character like that and I'd tell him so. I could hardly make things worse for myself at that point, it's way past too late. What could he do, condemn me for eternity plus another week?
 
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