Stupid question....

[Semperfi_dani]

If for the last bazillion years, the NDP have been viewed as the viable alternative to the Liberal gov't on the left...than what party is the viable alternative on the right?

Being that there is none that i can see...than does that mean that without opposition on the right like the Libs have on the left, that the cons will sweep right in?

 

[JomZ]

There isn't one anymore. They all joined together to form the CPC. The reason being the Canadian Alliance (Western Reformists) and PCs (the actual conservative party) were splitting seats in elections.

The Green Party is deemed a mixture of political ideals but a lot of them are former PCers who didn't want the CPC to exist. So I guess Green or when the PC party resurects itself as the true Tory party again.

 

[zoofer]

The NDP are not an alternative for the Liberals. They are an alternative in the sense that if you can't take a taxi take a bus. They are essentially the same except the NDP are not corrupt.

The alternative to the Conservatives are more of the same. Corruption, over taxation, lies and theft.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

In all honesty zoofer, right now, im almost willing to throw my vote to some freaking fringe candidate that has absolutely NO CHANCE of winning just to show my general disgust at all parties.

 

[FiveParadox]

Parties in the House

In my opinion, despite the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada has been in the "spotlight" recently regarding alleged scandals and corruption, I would assert that each and every party in the House of Commons has some "skeletons in their closets."

It would be naïve for we as Canadians, in my opinion, to believe that the party of the Rt. Hon. Paul Martin is the only one to have been involved in questionable activities; I would remind the Forum of the Hon. Gurmant Grewal in my own riding of Newton—North Delta; had he decided to run again as the incumbent here, I would assert that he would have been resoundingly defeated.

 

[zoofer]

Now now FivePar, you cannot equate Grewal's doings with the $250 million heist of taxpayer's money. Seems a new scandal pops up every week. How many not been discovered yet?

 

[FiveParadox]

Newton—North Delta

If we are going to begin asking how many scandals have yet to be uncovered, one could ask the same of each and every other party with representation in the House of Commons, could one not?

It has become apparent, for example, that the Conservative Party of Canada played an important role in the Option Canada scandal, for example; the House of Commons was up in arms regarding the recording incident (and it was never determined which party was at fault), members of both "main" parties have been pre-emptively expelled from their respective caucuses for questionable conduct — each and every party has these kinds of problems, it just so happens that the Liberal Party of Canada was caught in the act.

:!: Edit Resolved a formatting problem.

 

[zoofer]

Still a recording incident is not a 2 billion boondoggle (Gun registry), a $250 million Adscam, a billion HRDC, a $500 million needless penalty with Cretien's helicopter penalties...

 

[FiveParadox]

Yes, I get it, the Liberal Party of Canada sucks, and the Conservative Party of Canada is the party of the righteous saviours of Canada. You have established your point.

I do not base my opinion entirely upon the fiscal management of a nation (however, please note that I am very supportive of the Liberal economic record — I support moderate-to-high taxes and surpluses, until such time as we are in a position of no debt); matters of social policy are extremely important to me, and in my opinion, some key pieces of legislation that I would like to see remain in the Statutes of Canada would be in jeopardy under a Conservative Government.

 

[zoofer]

...and what key Statutes would that be?

 

[Triple_R]

FiveParadox - The problem is that those surpluses tend to go into wasteful spending, as oppossed to paying down the debt. If the Liberals were, for example, to scrap the gun registry and use all of the money saved from that to pay down the debt, I would applaud them quite passionately for that, and my view of them would be changed.

Surpluses are good, of course, but they should be the result of a strong economy; not high taxation. And, quite frankly, I think that high taxation has more to do with it than a strong economy. We actually lost thousands of jobs in December in Canada.

 

[KanBob]

Re: Parties in the House

In my opinion, despite the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada has been in the "spotlight" recently regarding alleged scandals and corruption, I would assert that each and every party in the House of Commons has some "skeletons in their closets."

It would be naïve for we as Canadians, in my opinion, to believe that the party of the Rt. Hon. Paul Martin is the only one to have been involved in questionable activities; I would remind the Forum of the Hon. Gurmant Grewal in my own riding of Newton—North Delta; had he decided to run again as the incumbent here, I would assert that he would have been resoundingly defeated.

What exactly did Grewal do that compares to the Liberals trying to bribe him to cross the floor? Please!

It is always convenient to suggest others act just as corruptly as you do as some sort of justification of corruption.

There has been no other scandal in recent memory that involves a party, any party, that has stolen public money for their party purposes.

They don't all do it. They don't all try to buy elections. Perhaps the Liberals DID buy one of the previous elections with that money. Who knows? Nobody seems to know where the cash went.

Such an assault against democracy is uprecedented.

 

[FiveParadox]

I was hardly assaulting democracy, I was expressing my opinion; Grewal recorded the Liberals. He admitted it, his party admitted it, the matter was obvious. It was never proven, ever, that the Liberals had initiated the talks with Mr. Grewal, and furthermore, there was evidence to suggest that the recording had been tampered to protect the Conservative Party of Canada.

It is always convenient to suggest others act just as corruptly as you do as some sort of justification of corruption.

How dare you suggest that I, a voter, am corrupt? Believe it or not, I'm voting Liberal because I support their party. I have made my reasons for voting for the Grits unequivocally clear on this Forum, and no amount of Tory spin on Liberal accountability issues is going to change my mind.

With all due respect:
Your constant confrontational style of debate serves only as a nuisance, to the detriment of the points you're trying to make. How about we go for a bit of an air of respect on Canadian Content, eh?

 

[KanBob]

Re: RE: Stupid question....

I was hardly assaulting democracy, I was expressing my opinion; Grewal recorded the Liberals. He admitted it, his party admitted it, the matter was obvious. It was never proven, ever, that the Liberals had initiated the talks with Mr. Grewal, and furthermore, there was evidence to suggest that the recording had been tampered to protect the Conservative Party of Canada.

It is always convenient to suggest others act just as corruptly as you do as some sort of justification of corruption.

How dare you suggest that I, a voter, am corrupt? Believe it or not, I'm voting Liberal because I support their party. I have made my reasons for voting for the Grits unequivocally clear on this Forum, and no amount of Tory spin on Liberal accountability issues is going to change my mind.

With all due respect:
Your constant confrontational style of debate serves only as a nuisance, to the detriment of the points you're trying to make. How about we go for a bit of an air of respect on Canadian Content, eh?

I wasn't trying to suggest you were corrupt. It was meant to mean all politicians. In the general sense. As inthey are all corrupt so why does it matter? Not anyone in particular. And not you specifically either.

As for changing votes, I don't this forum, or any forum will change anyone's vote. I don't expect them.

The only people interested in forums are those who feel a committment to the election process and probably to a point of view as well. I doubt there are any undecideds in forum land.

As for Grewal, taping conversations, while unsavory, is not illegal. As for Murphy offering the bribe to change sides, there may not be enough information or evidence (who knows, it was adjudicated by Liberal appointees) to convict in a court of law, but I suspect there was plenty to convict in the court of public opinion.
[/i]

 

[#juan]

One of Harper's esteemed forebears,

was Brian Mulroney, who produced a forty or fifty billion dollar deficit every year he was in office. That wonderful legacy sucks about thirty cents out of every tax dollar just to service the debt. The cost of that debt is many times anything the Liberals have done. The Liberals have actually paid down some of the bloody debt. Harper will build on the debt just like his buddy Bush.

 

[Colpy]

One of Harper's esteemed forebears,

was Brian Mulroney, who produced a forty or fifty billion dollar deficit every year he was in office. That wonderful legacy sucks about thirty cents out of every tax dollar just to service the debt. The cost of that debt is many times anything the Liberals have done. The Liberals have actually paid down some of the bloody debt. Harper will build on the debt just like his buddy Bush.

No he won't.

There are a large number of old Reformers in the party, like myself. The Reform principle was not only avoid deficit, but pay down debt.

Harper could get away with running a small surplus, but his own party would rebel over any deficit spending.

You can't pin Mulrooney's record on old Reformers, who left the PCs because of Lyin' Brian's policies.

 

[TenPenny]

On the other hand, many of Brian's policies were of tremendous importance: Nafta and the GST were fundamental in making the country recover economically.

Notice that they're still here, despite the Liberals. That's because they are an integral part of what made the economy recover.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Stupid question....

On the other hand, many of Brian's policies were of tremendous importance: Nafta and the GST were fundamental in making the country recover economically.

Notice that they're still here, despite the Liberals. That's because they are an integral part of what made the economy recover.

Absolutely true.

The much touted Liberal achievement economically is due in part th PC policies that cost the PCs power.

 

[zoofer]

One of Harper's esteemed forebears,

was Brian Mulroney, who produced a forty or fifty billion dollar deficit every year he was in office. That wonderful legacy sucks about thirty cents out of every tax dollar just to service the debt. The cost of that debt is many times anything the Liberals have done. The Liberals have actually paid down some of the bloody debt. Harper will build on the debt just like his buddy Bush.

Crock of crap. Mulroney was in power 9 years. 50 billion a year for 9 years 450 billion? Not even a jackass would believe that.

Mulroney and his Cabinet had little chance to capitalize on their popularity because they needed to address the huge national debt and Canada’s crippled economy. Since 1974 the government had been operating with a budget deficit each year, spending more money than it was collecting. By 1984 the deficits had accumulated to push the national debt to nearly 50 percent of all the goods and services Canada produced. The government had been borrowing money to cover its deficits, and annual interest payments on the debt accounted for some 30 percent of all the revenues the government collected. In an effort to resolve these problems, Mulroney’s government raised taxes and cut spending. Even then, however, the deficit did not shrink appreciably.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761567375_2/Brian_Mulroney.html

Seems the Fiberals were jacking up the debt since 1974 starting with Trudy.
The Conservatives apply the tough medicine to clean up the Fiberal mess, the people don't like it so vote in the spenders again. Their grandchildren will curse the ratfinks.