Stephen Harper as PM

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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Victoria, B.C.
Koga Ringo said:
do you really know how many people die on the street or die from lack of health care due to Paul Martin and his Liberal bandits.

Hmm, let me guess - zero?

As to your remarks regarding 'citizens' vs 'immigrants', what are you suggesting? Are you saying that immigrants should be denied the same rights as citizens?

Immigrants bring great wealth to Canada, often in terms of dollars and always in terms of diverse cultures and skills. We have so much in Canada, how can you possibly begrudge the little governmental help given to immigrants?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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The only reason Canada is so loved by other cultures and nations, is because they are better to immigrants than their citizens.

Completely untrue and pretty much ridiculous. Canada has built a reputation as a free and democratic nation because of its commitments to multilateral institutions.

Please try to base your argument on facts, and realistic opinions rather than some ridiculas impulse.
It just makes the other person not want to waste their time debating with a child.

I was just about to say that you Koga Ringo.
 

Boondoggle

New Member
Jun 23, 2004
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Stephen Harper is an excellent choice for those who value americanization over canadian identity....

Well Canada and the United States share a trade partnership that's worth about 2 billion dollars a day that helps pay for the social programs, health care, etc. Having a leader that thumbs his nose at them rather than trying to make the best of a difficult situation isn't in the best interest of Canada either. Granted Martin hasn't done this yet, but the previous Liberal government did. Further, this is one of the areas that Martin and Harper have common ground because Martin has said that improving relations with the US is a top priority for him too.

...for those who no longer wish to be welcomed into other countries when travelling, for those who long to wear the stars and stripes with pride....

No offense, but I think you're overreacting a little.

...for those who are taking backwards steps in tolerance and acceptance....

Care to elaborate on that?

...for those who support tax cuts for big business....

That's half true. The conservatives want to redirect industrial subsidies toward lower taxes and increased research and development.

...for those who see the $2 billion invested in the Canadian military as necessary and more important than health care....

eh? Where do you get $2 billion? Both the Conservatives and Liberals plan on spending $7 billion on the military. Further, while some criticize Harper for the two aircraft carriers that are included in his military plan, it's important to note that they're small carriers that hold about a dozen helicopters each, and Martin's plans include three ships that hold helicopters, trucks, etc, which you can read about here: The Joint Support Ship Project.

...and for those who are anxious to join in slaughtering and humiliating the people of Iraq.

Harper said we should support our allies and our troops. The Liberals already had Canadian troops in Iraq as part of an exchange program while stating that they are against the war. If they are against the war, a decision I agree with, they should have relocated the troops to a place like Afghanistan where they can still work with the Americans as part of an exchange program, but in an operation that their government supports. Included in the exchange program is Brigadier-General Walt Natynczyk who is suppose to be 2nd in command of 130,000 troops. In addition to this, there are Canadian warships in the area.

If you can provide a source where Harper has said Canada should have sent more troops to Iraq, by all means do, but all I heard was support, and let's be realistic, it's not like Canada has a lot of troops to send.

Some people like to compare Harper to Mulroney, and say that the Conservatives will lead us into war while the Liberals will keep us out of wars. Let's look at the record:

Mulroney insisted on a UN resolution for the first Iraq war, and while people say he was too close to Ronald Reagan, he said no to Reagan on SDI [the Strategic Defence Initiative missile plan], Nicaragua, Cuba and South Africa.

While Mulroney and Reagan were good friends, Clinton and Chretien were too. The Liberals got Canada involved in Kosovo under NATO not the UN, and according to international law, the UN charter, chapter 7, there are two conditions under which a country can go to war: with a UN resolution, or in self defence. Further, a good chunk of the Canadian navy has been enforcing the sanctions on Iraq over the last decade that the Liberals have been in charge, which killed more people than both wars combined. As the world has seen when America went in the 2nd time, the sanctions did little to hurt Saddam.

Another area that Harper and Martin have common ground, which is related to the military issue, is the Missile Defence Program. Both have said they'll consider it.

For those that are convinced that Harper has a dangerous hidden agenda, consider this: Regardless of who wins, it'll most likely be a minority government. If Harper wants to get anything done, and survive, he'll have to work with others. If he does a bad job, as some say he will, I'm sure the Liberals will still be strong enough to give people another option.

It's often suggested that Harper will cut social programs. The Liberals can take credit for turning a $42 billion annual deficit into a multi-billion surplus, but how did they do that? By cutting back on social programs, health care, and the military. The idea is not to have a surplus with underfunded programs, or overspending, but rather a balance. Both the Conservatives and Liberals have said they'll spend more money on things like health care and the military now that there is a surplus.

I'm not a supporter of either party, and I'm not trying to paint a picture of Conservatives having it all right, and the Liberals having it all wrong, just balancing things a little.
 

Diamond Sun

Council Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,366
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Within arms reach of the new baby..
Welcome boondoggle! Thanks for your comments!

Boondoggle said:
Well Canada and the United States share a trade partnership that's worth about 2 billion dollars a day that helps pay for the social programs, health care, etc. Having a leader that thumbs his nose at them rather than trying to make the best of a difficult situation isn't in the best interest of Canada either.

I don't disagree that the US is a huge trade partner, but that doesn't mean that we need to adopt their privatized health care and decreased social programs. I don't think any of the leaders are suggesting we stop consorting with the Americans, and neither am I.

...for those who no longer wish to be welcomed into other countries when travelling, for those who long to wear the stars and stripes with pride....

No offense, but I think you're overreacting a little.

I don't think so. If we become more entangled with the Americans, then foreign countries will no longer distinguish between us. I've seen Americans buy Canadian Flags in order to look Canadian, because it is a proven fact that we are treated better in foreign countries.

...for those who are taking backwards steps in tolerance and acceptance....

Care to elaborate on that?

I'm primarily responding to Harpers stance on gay marriage. Or rather, his non stance.

eh? Where do you get $2 billion? Both the Conservatives and Liberals plan on spending $7 billion on the military.
]

Mistakes. Sorry. I think it was a typo.

If you can provide a source where Harper has said Canada should have sent more troops to Iraq, by all means do, but all I heard was support, and let's be realistic, it's not like Canada has a lot of troops to send.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...16057177_82225257?s_name=election2004&no_ads=

Harper has switched his story to say what he thinks Canadians want to hear.

Some people like to compare Harper to Mulroney, and say that the Conservatives will lead us into war while the Liberals will keep us out of wars. Let's look at the record:

Mulroney is a "silent" advisor to Harper for this election, as reported on Global news, so I think it's completely accurate to compare him to Mulroney.

I'm not a supporter of either party, and I'm not trying to paint a picture of Conservatives having it all right, and the Liberals having it all wrong, just balancing things a little.

I appreciate the comments. Obviously every party has its negative points and it's positive points, we as Canadians have to choose which points are most valuable to us and vote for the party that exemplifies those points. In my case, that's neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals.
 

Cyberm4n

Electoral Member
Jun 6, 2002
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Mulroney is a "silent" advisor to Harper for this election, as reported on Global news, so I think it's completely accurate to compare him to Mulroney.

Nobody can disagree with that!
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Quote:
The photo of Harper on the cover of June 14ths Time magazine is downright creepy. If that picture was a word and I saw it in our Word Association thread, I'd've said, 'Hitler'.


I cannot believe you said that...
Please try to base your argument on facts, and realistic opinions rather than some ridiculas impulse.
It just makes the other person not want to waste their time debating with a child.

Perhaps the hitler association was a little extreme. But you are discounting a basic human instinct, your gut feeling. I only speak for myself, and my own life experiences, but I have found that gut feeling has been right more often than not. Its a primeval thing left over from the days when humans needed it to survive.

I think we have all come across individuals that for no valid reason alarm bells go off in our head, because we no longer have to cross the plains looking for dinner, we ignore the gut feeling because it seems to be based on no facts. In short I am just saying the gut feeling and its psychological implications should not be ignored.

Here is an interesting test if anyone is interested

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/tv/humaninstinct/
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
7
38
Victoria, B.C.
peapod said:
Perhaps the hitler association was a little extreme. But you are discounting a basic human instinct, your gut feeling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/tv/humaninstinct/

Great link, thanks! Those quizzes are fun to take.

I think gut reactions are, because they are an honest reaction, often extreme.

After reading your post, I took another look at pictures of Harper. I still get the same feeling, a feeling of revulsion. I have rarely felt this way just from looking at a picture. The association with Hitler still stands.

This association of Harper with Hitler is not right or wrong or extreme or otherwise, it is simply how I feel when I look at pictures of Harper.

Again, thanks for the cool site, peapod! Speaking of peas, I think I managed to consume enough peas over the weekend to fuel my body for many months.

And I crave more.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Reverend Blair said:
The biggest problem with Harper is that he's following the same formula that is failing in the US.
These are the same basic policies that have driven the US deeply into debt" [endquote]

I would to try to explain WHY these conservative governments WANT nations to be in huge debt.
In the 1980's, when the majority of all Canada's debt accumulated, what was going on?

interest rates were high in 1980s, and Canada had to service its debt by borrowing.
The indications are that interest rates are about to go up dramatically again, in about two years, after the shine comes off the military-spending-induced-economic recovery we are seeing now.
That will precipitate a new round of govt borrowing. But with this much debt already, they may default. That will allow allsorts of Fascism, and likely another of those "GreatDepressions" that they served up in the 1930's.

Okay, so why do they like this?
- they have friends in high places who could merely ASK most national leaders to start borrowing again. Who gets the interest on that borrowing? - those friends in high places.
They are in the highest of places, financially. These are the people who have so much money that banks will borrow from THEM, as do Governments. They run/own the World Bank and those type of financial instuitions. They are likely people such as the Rockerfellers and Russian Billionaires and Arab royalty and European olgarchy.
They are the "5% , the ones who have the 80% or 90% of the world's money although they are only 5% of the population.

We have to know that the world's richest are not going to leave things to just work out, no, they arrange things to work out in a way thats best for them. Sometimes that is consumer spending, sometimes it the Great Depression ; sometimes they want to live off of the interest of huge loans, which may not seem like much income compared to business profits, but when things are shakey and uncertain, they are just glad not to be losing money.

I believe they have this "world economy - financial control - currency manipulation" down to a tee.
Its on a level that the general public will not ever be directly involved with, other than being a consumer spending credit, or an employee expense to the elites.
But we are affected. One main thing is that the governments are heavily discouraged from letting money get into the hands of the poor. Maybe the middle class is okay, but not the poor.
Things like welfare and health care for the poor are discouraged by the elites, because it eats into the government money THEY get{from the Sponsership programme, Weapons making,etc].

People like G.W. Bushbaby can only aspire to join the upper levels of this group. He is winning points for sure by securing Iraq's OIL.
These groups have inner and outer circles, which together form the New World Order. You could be part of the NWO just by doing certain jobs. Its all very subtle, quite often even the people at the higher levels don't know that they are taking part.


And PAYING INTEREST is one way to take part and support the NWO, so we should try to avoid that.
I would also add that BUYING NEW CARS really serves them too.
So does spreading hate; dividing people [religions works so well for this];creating in-equalities; and creating illness. okay, this was about interest payments, si I'll spare you the rest of the conspiracy.

Now thats a Conspiracy eh?

Cuddy Tookishu,
AKA?