St Alban - England's new patron saint?

Blackleaf

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Will England get a new patron saint and a new national flag?

The Sunday Times July 02, 2006


St Alban is holier than St George
Christopher Morgan


England's flag is white with a red cross and is the Cross of St George and is why the England football team wear red and white.


Cross of St Alban - if this became an alternative, or the new, flag of England, the England football team would have to start wearing blue and yellow. And the flag is similar to Scotland's flag except with a yellow cross rather than a white one.


THE Church of England will debate making St Alban (who the city of St Albans in Hertfordshire is named after) an alternative patron saint because critics claim St George is too militaristic, potentially offensive to Muslims — and foreign.

Supporters of the change, to be unveiled in a General Synod motion this week, claim Alban may be more appropriate not only because he was real while George may be mythical, but because of his self-sacrifice.

Alban was a 4th century martyr who was put to death after hiding a Christian priest from the Romans in what is now the Hertfordshire city named after him.

The proposal may dismay many England fans, who have been flying George’s banner in support of their football team. The flag of St Alban would be a diagonal yellow cross on a blue background.

Philip Chester, vicar of St Matthew’s, Westminster, who is gathering support for his private member’s motion, called the choice of George, who according to legend was a Roman cavalryman from what is now Turkey, “dotty”.

He added: “We are not at all sure George even existed . . . but we are sure St Alban is a real figure. What’s more, he lived in this country.”

Chester’s motion, which needs the signatures of 100 synod members before it is debated formally, calls on Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, “to acknowledge St Alban as the patron saint of England.”

Williams appeared cautious last week. “I think St Alban is irreplaceable in the history of English Christianity. Perhaps we ought to raise his profile because it’s the beginning of the church in this country with martyrdom, wisdom and courage,” he said.

George has been England’s leading saint since knights brought his legend back from the holy land in the Middle Ages and he was adopted by Edward III as patron of the Order of the Garter in 1348.

Some modern vicars, however, shy away from marking his feast day because they dislike his association with the violence of the crusades against the Islamic world.

David Stancliffe, Bishop of Salisbury, said: “There was a time when the image of St George associated with belligerence was helpful, particularly in our imperial past. But I think there’s been a change and now we want to honour holiness.”

thetimesonline.co.uk
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Saint Alban was the first Christian martyr (protomartyr) in Britain. He is listed in the Roman Catholic calendar of England and Wales for 20 June and he continues to be venerated in the Anglican Communion. The first mention of St Alban is by Constantius, in his Life of St Germanus of Auxerre, written about 480. He also appears in Gildas's 6th century polemic De Excidio Britanniae.
 

Daz_Hockey

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Nov 21, 2005
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RE: St Alban - England's

So the fact that St. George came from Palistine had nothing to do with it then?, I thought that would be a plus to people from the arab world.....


I think we should take Germany's, St. Boniface.....do some research Blackleaf, I'm from Southampton, Nursling is down the road, he would be much more suitable, I elect Southampton's OWN St. Boniface
 

Blackleaf

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St Cuthbert is another English saint put forward to be our new patron saint. At the moment, he's the patron saint of Northumberland.

There was a national survey done - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/features/results_stgeorge.shtml - to see who the English would want as their new patron saint. St Alban finished first and St Cuthbert finished second.

If St Cuthbert became the new patron saint, we would have a cross similar to this on our new flag -



St Edmund was third in the vote. If he become the new national patron saint, England's new national flag would look something like this -



Now if one of these two became our new patron saint, we would have a much more interesting flag. If not exactly like the Flag of St Cuthbert or the Flag of St Edmund, then very much similar. St Cuthbert, Northumberland's patron saint, has strong support in the North East of England.
 

Blackleaf

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Re: RE: St Alban - England's

Daz_Hockey said:
So the fact that St. George came from Palistine had nothing to do with it then?, I thought that would be a plus to people from the arab world.....


I think we should take Germany's, St. Boniface.....do some research Blackleaf, I'm from Southampton, Nursling is down the road, he would be much more suitable, I elect Southampton's OWN St. Boniface

I reckon we should have an English saint as our patron saint or a foreign saint who actually stepped foot in England.

St Alban, St Cuthbert and St Edmund are the three most popular English saints.

Other English saints are St Gundleus, St Edelwald, St Bettelin, St Wulfstan (the last Anglo-Saxon Bishop of Worcester), St Neot etc etc.

In fact, if you want an Anglo-Saxon saint as the new patron saint of England, there are plenty to choose from -


Acca
Adrian of Canterbury
Aebbe the Elder
Aebbe the Younger
Aebbe of Minster-in-Thanet
Aelred
Aethelbert of East Anglia
Aethelbert of Eastry
Aethelbert of Kent
Aethelhard
Aethelred of Eastry
Aethelred of Rievaulx
Aethelwold of Farne
Aethelwold of Winchester
Agilbert
Aidan of Lindisfarne
Alburga
Alcelda
Alcmund of Hexham
Alcmund of Lilleshall
Aldhelm
Augustine of Canterbury
Bede the Venerable
Bega of Egremont
Begu of Hackness
Benedict Biscop
Bertwald
Birinus
Birstan
Boisil
Bosa
Bregwin
Caedmon
Cedd
Ceolwulf
Chad
Cuthbert of Canterbury
Cuthbert of Northumbria
Cuthburga
Cyneburga of Gloucester
Deusdedit
Dunstan
Edburga of Bicester
Edburga of Gloucester
Edburga of Lyming
Edburga of Minster-in-Thanet
Edburga of Repton
Edburga of Winchester
Edgar
Edith of Aylesbury
Edith of Polesworth
Edith of Tamworth
Edith of Wilton
Edward the Confessor (he would be very good as a patron saint)
Edward the Martyr
Egwin
Elflaeda of Whitby
Enflaeda
Enswith
Ermenburga
Ermengilda
Ethelburga of Barking
Ethelburga of Faremoutier-en-Brie
Ethelburga of Lyming
Ethelburga of Wessex
Etheldreda of Crowland
Etheldreda of Ely
Etheldreda of Mercia
Felix of Dunwich
Finan of Lindisfarne
Frideswide
Frithestan
Hadrian of Canterbury
Haedda of Winchester
Hilda
Honorius
Jaenbert
John of Beverley
Justus
Kenelm
Laurence of Canterbury
Mellitus
Milburga
Mildred
Milgitha
Modwenna of Burton-on-Trent
Modwenna of Northumbria
Nothelm
Oda
Osana
Osith
Osthrith
Oswald of Northumbria
Oswald of Worcester
Oswin
Owin
Paulinus of York
Sexburga
Swithun
Tatwin
Theodore of Canterbury
Werburga of Chester
Werburga of Mercia
Wilfred the Elder
Wilfred the Younger
Wistan
Withburga of Dereham
Withburga of Rome
Wulfhilda
Wulfthrith
 

Blackleaf

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Re: RE: St Alban - England's

Daz_Hockey said:
here's your man blackleaf, this is who England need's as it's patron saint!!!! :)


I give you St. Fiacre!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiacre

Oh God, no.

St George is the patron saint of leprosy, syphilis and the plague, so we should get rid of him and anyone else who is the patron saint of a disease.
 

Blackleaf

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There are also proposals to change the British flag to appease the PC brigade -




Britain's national flag - the union jack - has been given the makeover treatment, in the hope of reflecting a more modern society.

It's become the marketing executive's remedy for any organisation's ills. From BT to BP, the Labour Party to the Lottery, hardly a business or institution has escaped the rebranding bug.

Now moves are afoot to redesign that most sacred of British hallmarks - the union flag.

A campaign is being launched to modernise the red, white and blue flag by adding a touch of black to reflect multicultural Britain in the 21st Century.

The proposed new flag (see above) is the work of Nigel Turner, an enthusiastic fan of the UK's transformation into a multiracial society over the past 50 years.

Mr Turner, who has called his campaign Reflag, believes his plan would reclaim the union jack from its negative associations, and silence that old skinhead chant: "There ain't no black in the union jack."

"If I flew the union jack from a flagpole in my garden, many people would see it as a racist statement," he says.

"I'm a glass half-full, rather than half-empty sort of person. It's time we made a positive statement about the progression of a multicultural and multiracial society."

400th anniversary

The union flag was first seen in 1606 and the version that we know today was drawn up by the College of Arms in 1801 to represent the Act of Union.

Black runner Denise Lewis proudly waves the union jack
Mr Turner, 46, who is white, hopes to spark a debate on the flag. He would like to see a new design replace the current union jack for the flag's 400th anniversary in 2006.

"The proposed design does not mean throwing out all that has gone before, and it is clearly recognisable as the flag of the UK without saying something new."

But as makeovers go, even a designer as thick-skinned as Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen would think twice about treading into such perilous territory.

The so-called "union black" has already raised the ire of the Scottish. Tuesday's Scotsman newspaper said Mr Turner had "missed the point".

"The United Kingdom is not a firm which changes its corporate branding each time the management alters. The flag is an enduring symbol of unity which transcends politics and absorbs cultural change."

MSP Phil Gallie told the Scottish Parliament: "The suggestion that our flag should be redesigned is ridiculous tokenism and would do nothing to stamp out racism."

So what does Mr Turner need to do to make his flag official? The answer is not black and white, says flags expert Charles Ashburner.

"There are no laws governing the union flag. Primarily, it's the monarch's flag, but it has come to represent the UK through common usage.

"So to make it official, he just has to make people believe it's the official flag. It will never take the place of the union flag of course, but it could became a sort of quasi-official flag if enough people flew it."

news.bbc.co.uk
 

Daz_Hockey

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Nov 21, 2005
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RE: St Alban - England's

come on blackleaf, dont be a moron, or a Bil-yati, everyone knows it's only a union jack when it's at sea with a specific pole, otherwise it's the union flag.

and no, our minorities are just that, this is still predonimantly a white nation, I completly disagree with the whole idea
 

Daz_Hockey

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Nov 21, 2005
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RE: St Alban - England's

correction: bilāyatī (विलायती) just like most people here
 

Andem

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The changing of the union flag to include black is completely offensive to me. Over 30 years, the racial and cultural makeup of the UK has been radically transformed thereby eroding real British culture. A part of me dies when my family roots (mum and family are 100% English) disappear.. and that's whats been happening throughout the UK.

On the other hand, flying into Heathrow -- after getting off the plane -- seems like I was diverted into Islamabad, Pakistan.
 

Daz_Hockey

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RE: St Alban - England's

I'm ashamed to agree Andem, but you cannot speak out against it or you are classed a racist
 

Blackleaf

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Re: RE: St Alban - England's new patron saint?

Andem said:
The changing of the union flag to include black is completely offensive to me. Over 30 years, the racial and cultural makeup of the UK has been radically transformed thereby eroding real British culture. A part of me dies when my family roots (mum and family are 100% English) disappear.. and that's whats been happening throughout the UK.

On the other hand, flying into Heathrow -- after getting off the plane -- seems like I was diverted into Islamabad, Pakistan.

These people who want black on the Union Flag are just part of the PC Brigade. There's a lot of it about in Britain. One guy was taken to court for selling golliwogs in his shop.
 

Blackleaf

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Other good ideas for an English flag, if we decide to change it due to its "offensiveness". There are loads throughout England to choose from -


The Flag of Wessex. Wessex was one of the main Anglo-Saxon kingdoms that united to form England. That'd be a good choice.



Mercia - along with Wessex, this was the other major Anglo-Saxon kingdom.



The White Dragon flag of the Anglo-Saxons.



Flag of East Yorkshire. Would appeal to those who want a similar design to the St George's Cross but isn't the St George's Cross.



Oliver Cromwell's banner. Would appeal to Republicans.



St Piran's Cross. Would appeal to those country bumpkins in the West Country.



This recently won a competition to ebcome the Devon flag. Would probably be another favourite to replace the St George's Cross.



Some jokers will probably propose the Flag of Lundy Island, a tiny island off the Devon coast. It looks more like a "Learner" sign.



The Scillonian Cross, the flag of the Scilly Isles which are a part of Cornwall and the most southerly and warmest part of Britain.