Saskatchewan RCMP say 10 dead, 15 hospitalized after stabbings, suspects still at large

[Ron in Regina]

Well, this is gonna come up eventually so I might as well get this started in the thread connected to it most recently.

Rural Response Times from Police (the RCMP in this case).

First Nations leaders call for reboot of RCMP policing in Saskatchewan after stabbing rampage — The Globe and Mail

As Mounties highlight being stretched too thin on reserves, calls mount for new ‘tribal policing’ forces

apple.news

“We ask that we have our own tribal policing,” he said.

Currently, the RCMP are the default police force on many reserves, including the James Smith Cree Nation, where nine victims were killed and nearly 20 others injured in Sunday’s stabbing attack. A tenth victim was a resident of the nearby village of Weldon.

First Nations Policing Program - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

This is the can of worms I’m picturing:

The force has said it immediately deployed two officers from Melfort to the reserve after receiving an emergency call about the attack. The pair took about 40 minutes to arrive at James Smith….

Anyway, rural response times have been an issue for a long long time. Don’t know what the answer is but anybody wanna Wade in?

“A 30-minute to 45-minute response time is probably typical in a rural area,” Ruddell said. “It could be much longer depending on road conditions and whether the Mounties can even find your farm.”

Gerald Stanley verdict reignites simmering rural crime debate

Last November, dozens of rural Albertans travelled to the legislature to demand action on rural crime.

edmontonjournal.com

http://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/SECU/Reports/RP10493887/securp33/securp33-e.pdf

http://www.saskatchewan.ca/-/media/news-release-backgrounders/2017/aug/crc-report.pdf

 

[The_Foxer]

Yeah, but the question is would it be any different with FN community police? It seems unlikely each small town would be able to field it's own group, so for at least a portion of time the police coverage wouldn't be any better i would think. (could be wrong of course)

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I don’t think it would have helped here, unless the shared tribal police (shared cost so shared police) just happened to be on that particular Reserve at 5:45am on a Sunday morning in the middle of the Labour Day Weekend.

It sort’a works for the File Hills group that has four Reservations (NW of Balcarres) who’s borders connect to each other, but then “Carry The Kettle” is south of Sintaluta an hour away (so…an hour response time…).

James Smith Cree Nation isn’t packed in very close to other Reservations geographically so sharing Policing costs would either be burdensome, or response times would be worse than what they already have with RCMP out of Melfort, or they’re going to have to have their own police force & solely shoulder the cost of it with less than 2000 residents assuming they’re paying for it themselves and have to concern themselves about the cost.

Tribal Police can receive training also. The national training academy for the RCMP just happens to be in Regina so that’s not a big stretch.

I think one of the bigger challenges would be keeping real or perceived bias of family and political ties from enforcement or perceived enforcement equally.

Yeah. In this case, this Myles Sanderson was a nasty freak bad news Federal Time probation skipping nightmare, who was out on statutory release with conditions to not go near his Ex-Common-Law Spouse, (and in a small community everyone knows everyone else’s business,) who he was living with…& all these dead “Burns” folks where her family….& everyone and their dogs would’a know this was going down since Myles was wanted back in May 2022 but months went by before the murder spree.

Maybe Tribal Police would have also been aware of this, and maybe they would’a done something about this months ago, & maybe not.

Yeah, I was just being a little sarcastic. I get tired of agencies responding to massive disasters by re-organizing.

With the right training and clear lines of authority, especially between the Tribal Police, the RCMP, and provincial authorities, this could help a lot. It has in many cases here.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Yeah, but the question is would it be any different with FN community police? It seems unlikely each small town would be able to field it's own group, so for at least a portion of time the police coverage wouldn't be any better i would think. (could be wrong of course)

In this specific instance on this specific reserve…..maybe. I also think you’re exactly correct.

Maybe Tribal Police could have rounded up Myles Sanderson (with RCMP cooperation as this guy was a real piece of work with no boundaries) in May of 2022 because everybody out there would know everybody else’s business…& before long they would’ve surely known that he was there months & months ago…so unless he was caught & released again already he wouldn’t have been out in the public on the Labour Day weekend for this to happen.

If it was ‘Shared’ Policing with other Reserves to Share the cost involved, odds are they wouldn’t have been “Johnny On The Spot” at 5:45am on a Sunday morning in the middle of a long weekend on the James Smith Cree Nation…unless they happened to be based there.

Its been many years since I’ve worked up in that direction so being familiar with the geography and terrain of every goat path and settlement in the northern half of the province…. but off the top of my head I’m thinking the closest next reserve would be Muskaday by PA (Prince Albert) & it’s not all that close….and others would be further away.

 

[petros]

RCMP, Municipal cops, F&G, first responders and community officers are all linked in SK after the Boushie incident.

Next obvious step is a Provincial police like we once had.

 

[Ron in Regina]

RCMP, Municipal cops, F&G, first responders and community officers are all linked in SK after the Boushie incident.

Next obvious step is a Provincial police like we once had.

I didn’t know either of the above two facts.

Saskatchewan Provincial Police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I did realize that the Gerald Stanley & Colton Boushie goat rodeo would play into rural police response times in this discussion though, but not that changes had already been implemented from that incident.

 

[petros]

I didn’t know either of the above two facts.

Saskatchewan Provincial Police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I did realize that the Gerald Stanley & Colton Boushie goat rodeo would play into rural police response times in this discussion though, but not that changes had already been implemented from that incident.

They were linked shortly after Boushie because of the response time issue. A 911 call goes out to all, whomever closest goes first.

 

[The_Foxer]

If it was ‘Shared’ Policing with other Reserves to Share the cost involved, odds are they wouldn’t have been “Johnny On The Spot” at 5:45am on a Sunday morning in the middle of a long weekend on the James Smith Cree Nation…unless they happened to be based there.

Its been many years since I’ve worked up in that direction so being familiar with the geography and terrain of every goat path and settlement in the northern half of the province…. but off the top of my head I’m thinking the closest next reserve would be Muskaday by PA (Prince Albert) & it’s not all that close….and others would be further away.

Well i think it's pretty much the same everywhere - with regards to this specific problem it's not so much a 'reserve' problem as it is a 'small community of any type' problem. In rurral manitoba where my family was from (and where i spent a lot of time) the cops were based a good 45 min drive away and there were many small towns that they'd also service. So if there was an urgent issue a) they weren't going to get there immediately and b) they weren't going to get there at all if there was an urgent situation in another town which had already taken up their responders.

In fact - thinking about it where i live now (which is not that far from some major metros really) i'm a good 20 mins away from the nearest cop shop, which i know only has about 5 officers total assigned. Like, at all. And they service a large area. So 45 mins would not be an unexpected response time even here.

And even in the cities for all but the most horrific urgent situations you can expect to wait quite a while for cops in many cases.

So i dunno - i think it sounds like the old problem of "when seconds count, police are just minutes away". No matter what you do there's going to be police resource issues and when you add in the geographic challenges of smaller communities and the distance between I don't think there really is a solution other than put insane amounts of money into police resources to have them stationed everywhere.

Honestly i look at this as more of a court and parole problem.

 

[Taxslave2]

On the coast, we have communities that are boat or plane access only. A couple of the larger reserves and villages have a resident cop, but he usually covers other places nearby.

 

[Ron in Regina]

On the coast, we have communities that are boat or plane access only. A couple of the larger reserves and villages have a resident cop, but he usually covers other places nearby.

In Saskatchewan we also have communities that are boat or plane access only….with road access only in winter on ice roads. I hear you.

 

[Taxslave2]

In Saskatchewan we also have communities that are boat or plane access only….with road access only in winter on ice roads. I hear you.

It is a problem, not only for police, but medical emergencies as well.

 

[Ron in Regina]

It is a problem, not only for police, but medical emergencies as well.

Or Grocery or Diesel or any other deliveries.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Happy Pre-“Truth & Reconciliation Day” or whatever it’s going to be called!!

BC will celebrate in its traditional way by having Trudeau fly over without stopping (on his way to a Funeral in Japan this time, wonder what the Surfing is like there?).

Saskatchewan? Probably celebrating with some self-flagellation with settler colonial guilt spoon feed like this?:

Saskatchewan stabbing tragedy illustrates ongoing settler colonial violence — The Conversation Canada

To fully understand what led to the stabbings in James Smith Cree Nation, we need to look at how the legacy of settler colonial violence impacts Indigenous communities.

apple.news

How about the rest of Canada? What’s planned?

What each province, territory is doing on National Day for Truth and Reconciliation

Friday is the second annual National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, also known as Orange Shirt Day. The federal government made Sept. 30 a statutory holiday for its workers and federally regulated workplaces last year.

www.ctvnews.ca

Friday is the second annual National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, also known as Orange Shirt Day.

The federal government made Sept. 30 a statutory holiday for IT’s workers and federally regulated workplaces last year. And it is up to each province and territory to decide whether to also make it an statutory holiday for workers in their governments, schools and businesses.

 

[pgs]

Happy Pre-“Truth & Reconciliation Day” or whatever it’s going to be called!!

BC will celebrate in its traditional way by having Trudeau fly over without stopping (on his way to a Funeral in Japan this time, wonder what the Surfing is like there?).

Saskatchewan? Probably celebrating with some self-flagellation with settler colonial guilt spoon feed like this?:

Saskatchewan stabbing tragedy illustrates ongoing settler colonial violence — The Conversation Canada

To fully understand what led to the stabbings in James Smith Cree Nation, we need to look at how the legacy of settler colonial violence impacts Indigenous communities.

apple.news

How about the rest of Canada? What’s planned?

What each province, territory is doing on National Day for Truth and Reconciliation

Friday is the second annual National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, also known as Orange Shirt Day. The federal government made Sept. 30 a statutory holiday for its workers and federally regulated workplaces last year.

www.ctvnews.ca

Friday is the second annual National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, also known as Orange Shirt Day.

The federal government made Sept. 30 a statutory holiday for IT’s workers and federally regulated workplaces last year. And it is up to each province and territory to decide whether to also make it an statutory holiday for workers in their governments, schools and businesses.
View attachment 15877

I will celebrate in good indigenous fashion by getting fall down drunk .

 

[harrylee]

Orange shirt day?
Did Jagmeet and his tribe have anything to do with that?

 

[Ron in Regina]

I just found out yesterday that our office is closed on the 30th…which is a Friday…& is the last day of the month…& not a holiday for the USA…& Trucking is 24/7….so… I can’t see not actually being there repeatedly if I try and take part of that day off if I want to avoid going in repeatedly on Saturday & Sunday. Nature of the beast.

 

[Ron in Regina]

….In fact - thinking about it where i live now (which is not that far from some major metros really) i'm a good 20 mins away from the nearest cop shop, which i know only has about 5 officers total assigned. Like, at all. And they service a large area. So 45 mins would not be an unexpected response time even here.

And even in the cities for all but the most horrific urgent situations you can expect to wait quite a while for cops in many cases.

Time runs together on me, Day to Day and week to week and year to year…. but about 15 to 20 years ago we had a situation….

It was the day before a good friend was getting married and even though he lived with his girl for several years it’s some kind of bad luck to see the bride the day before the wedding (?) so I had the groom and the grooms father and a couple other guys staying at my place the night before the wedding. That’s the background.

About 12:30 AM, there is a loud bang and crash in my backyard which has a 6 foot fence around it. I am up immediately and as I’m going out the back door I grab a knife off the rack above the stove. Our Rottweiler and I roll out the door at the same time. I’m standing on my back steps in my underwear with a chefs knife as the Rottweiler does this triangular pattern with his nose to the ground repeatedly….
Short version of the story is the Rottweiler traps some dude underneath my barbeque. we phone in his identification numbers to the police (PIC#, Prisoner ID#, Health Card#, DOB, everything!!!) & The response time was 45 minutes….& we live 12 city blocks from the police station.
Turns out that the police were chasing this guy as he was on foot for 4+ hours until he got away into our backyard, and ended up trapped inside the fence line with locked gates….& couldn’t get out in time before we trapped him. The dog outweighed the criminal and even this guy after the first 1/2 hour was complaining that “where is a cop when you need one?” as he was on his knees with his hands on top of his head as the Rottweiler circled him like a shark.

When we first rolled out the back door, The police were still in my alley. When we called in this guys ID, & that the dog had him trapped, they were in no hurry to retrieve him. 45 minute response time (& that with a dozen officers when they finally arrived)? Meh….it is what it is, & we’ve had much longer police response times to more violent situations.

Two-ish decades later, our defence is scaled back due to attrition & our age, but you have to be able to rely on yourselves until police are able to, or decide to, respond.

 

[The_Foxer]

we live 12 city blocks from the police station.

That's not relevant information. How far are you from the donut shop? (Ba Da BING!!!)

Yeah, i've got a few similar stories i could share. It's that old saying - when seconds count, police are just minutes away.

 

[Ron in Regina]

That's not relevant information. How far are you from the donut shop? (Ba Da BING!!!)

Yeah, i've got a few similar stories i could share. It's that old saying - when seconds count, police are just minutes away.

12 blocks from the police station and 5 blocks from Robin’s Donuts…. and the most direct route between the two takes them about 75’ from our home.

It was the fact that we mentioned that the Rottweiler had the criminal trapped under the barbeque that that turned us into a 45 minute response time.

We could still see the red and blue lights in our alley when we were on the phone with the police and they drove away… for 45 minutes. I think they were looking for a little justice themselves that night.

 

[Taxslave2]

I just found out yesterday that our office is closed on the 30th…which is a Friday…& is the last day of the month…& not a holiday for the USA…& Trucking is 24/7….so… I can’t see not actually being there repeatedly if I try and take part of that day off if I want to avoid going in repeatedly on Saturday & Sunday. Nature of the beast.

Most manufacturing and resource extraction is 24/7. turdOWE, of course doesn't care about any of those people because they are unlikely to vote for him anyway. If will force owners to pay DT for the entire crew though. Think of the extra income tax that will bring in.