Ponderous Questions?

researchok

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Haggis, explain further please.

Seems to me you are describing 'faith'- that is believing despite evidence to the contary or lack of evidence.

Aren't there many levels of faith? Why should that be any diferent from 'karma'?

Faith is not mutually exclusive from reason.

By the way, good morning. Book signing went well.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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researchok said:
Haggis, explain further please.

Seems to me you are describing 'faith'- that is believing despite evidence to the contary or lack of evidence.

Aren't there many levels of faith? Why should that be any diferent from 'karma'?

Faith is not mutually exclusive from reason.

By the way, good morning. Book signing went well.

Good morning, co-author! I am looking forward to our first million..

By its definition I do not have faith since I deny the validity of my feelings. To have faith, I think, would mean to accept my gut instinct and ignore my intellectual challenge to the instinct.
 

researchok

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Haggis McBagpipe said:
Fascinating stuff, American Voice. The concept of karma is something that I don't believe in on an intellectual level but seem to believe at a gut level.

Actually, there are many other contradictions of this nature in my thinking, where my heart senses a truth in something but my brain rejects it as absurd.

Just for one other example, every single thing that I hold as true denies the possibility of the dead watching over us, yet I get that feeling from time to time that deceased family members are watching over. I will most fervently pray to deceased family members for guidance when I need it, all the while my brain says, 'this is stupid! stop it!'

Does anybody else have this clash between the heart and the brain?

Waot a second- you mean i have to SHARE the money? YOU COMMUNIST!

OK, so why the conflict? If you KNOW your going to deny the feelings, surely at some point you would stop having them? As in, "I know if I touch the stovetop, I'll get burned.."

My point is, that on some level, you're still unsure.

In other words, welcome to the human race.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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researchok said:
Waot a second- you mean i have to SHARE the money? YOU COMMUNIST!

OK, so why the conflict? If you KNOW your going to deny the feelings, surely at some point you would stop having them? As in, "I know if I touch the stovetop, I'll get burned.."

Not only share the money, but to be fair I should get more. Not sure why, but I should!

I think I would call my 'faith' more of a 'wistful thinking', really. As for stopping having them, I tend to hoard stuff, even stuff like that. :) Shove that box of thoughts up in the attic, never know when you might need 'em.

Your analogy to the stovetop would work except that thoughts of faith are soothing and tempting, therefore alluring. No burn to teach one not to do it, only a brain that sneers.
 

researchok

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SOME thoughts of faith are soothing and tempting.

Others are nice and toasty.

Then there's divine retribution-- that's always as good as a mother's guilt inducing, sad sigh.

Geez, I get the shivers just thinking about it!
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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researchok said:
Then there's divine retribution-- that's always as good as a mother's guilt inducing, sad sigh.

Geez, I get the shivers just thinking about it!

My god, so do I. My mother was the Premium Number One Guilt Producer in the Free World, she could instill guilt at ten paces, blindfolded, with hands tied behind her back. Oh my, she was good.
 

researchok

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Haggis McBagpipe said:
researchok said:
Then there's divine retribution-- that's always as good as a mother's guilt inducing, sad sigh.

Geez, I get the shivers just thinking about it!

My god, so do I. My mother was the Premium Number One Guilt Producer in the Free World, she could instill guilt at ten paces, blindfolded, with hands tied behind her back. Oh my, she was good.

man, we MUST be related!

My mom won the Olympic Gold Medal in Guilt Inducement.

Naturally, she declined the medal and accompanying fame, as she didn't want to embarras us.

She was willing to give up the record books for OUR happiness.
 

American Voice

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Haggis McBagpipe said:
Does anybody else have this clash between the heart and the brain?

I am currently involved in a relationship with a young woman, and in the course of this the distinction between desire and intention has appeared in sharp relief. It comes back to the karmic dilemma, i.e., the sterile purity of desire versus the messiness of intention. What is love if it isn't acted upon, and what is the appropriate expression of love in each instance? I am reminded of the faith versus works dilemma described by St. Paul in, I believe, the Epistle to the Romans, is it? I am uncomfortable with the term salvation but I believe--and this goes back to the idea of purpose--we do need to vindicate our existence by, I don't know, some good works? It's not that some remote Paternal Deity requires it of us, but that we feel it in our bones that we ought to do something with our lives; discover penicillin, raise children, create jobs, just be nice to people.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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Research quote:
>> Naturally, she declined the medal and accompanying fame, as she didn't want to embarras us. She was willing to give up the record books for OUR happiness.

I'm laughing here... I think these two mothers compared notes! My mum could wring enough guilt out of a person that they'd be dehydrated for weeks. Red blood cells were replaced by painful guilt cells, and the only reason she was even alive was so she could be there in case we needed her because once we no longer needed her she had no real reason to live, and she only told us this so we'd know just how much she loved us. :)

AV quote:
>>we do need to vindicate our existence by, I don't know, some good works? It's not that some remote Paternal Deity requires it of us, but that we feel it in our bones that we ought to do something with our lives; discover penicillin, raise children, create jobs, just be nice to people.

But maybe we feel the same at the end of it all. Given time, prior to death, we will indulge in regrets, but nearer to death does the achiever feel better for his achievements than the ne'er do well who has done nothing?

Do we die easier knowing we have done these things or is this merely what we hope is true? Is our need to do something with our lives a hedge against death, or is it a reluctant tribute to the possibility of a reward on the other side?
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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American Voice said:
No, I think it just makes us feel good, and happiness is an indicator of something.

Yes, it makes us feel good, and this is a good thing. I am curious as to whether you think it matters in the end, though. Do you think your accomplishments now will make you feel good as you gasp your last?

Why does it make us feel good? When I do a good thing there can be no denying the good-feeling rush I get from having done it, but I can turn around and do something totally selfish and get a pretty good rush then, too.
 

American Voice

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One thing is certain, there will be no retrospection when we are dead. Why are you preoccupied with your final thoughts? You won't remember them.
 

Lisa

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You don't know whether you remember those, because you don't know what happens after death. Could be that the first thing that happens is that your life flashes before, with those last words as a closure.

Or am I being just too blonde here? Is this a weird thought?
 

American Voice

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There's no such thing as being too blonde, that would be like me saying my eyes are too blue.

What happens when we die? We rot.

A number of years ago, I pursued an extensive personal genealogy project. In detail, with documentation, I identified all of my direct ancestors going back five generations, across the board. Some lines, I got back even farther. All of those ancestors live in me.
 

researchok

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AV, that reminds of a favorite quote of mine: ""We have no claim in the share of the glory of our ancestors unless we strive to resemble them." --Jean Baptiste Molière.

A more contemporary translation is, "The less we are like our ancestors, the less we deserve them."
 

American Voice

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It wasn't my intention to negate Moliere; I meant to expand upon him. The universality of reverence for ancestors speaks for itself.