He had to plan for months to run over a family?
Yep, conservative through and through. Filled with hate and dumber'n a stump.
Police say 5 pedestrians deliberately run down in London were targeted because they were Muslims
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
Yep, conservative through and through. Filled with hate and dumber'n a stump.
Jury sees video of Veltman arrest, minutes after Afzaals struck
A 15-minute video played Tuesday morning was shot from a mall’s surveillance system.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 12, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 4 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes graphic details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – Cab driver Azzeddin Jahanghiri thought the driver of the pickup truck might be hurt or need help with his damaged vehicle.
But instead, he came face-to-face with Nathaniel Veltman, fresh from running down a Muslim family with his truck. Veltman was in the driver’s seat wearing an army helmet. He had one request for the London Taxi driver.
“Call the cops. Call the cops,” Veltman said from the driver’s seat of the black pickup truck that had wheeled up to within a metre of Jahanghiri’s cab parked near the east side of the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot at 8:45 p.m. on June 6, 2021.
“I just hit someone. Call the cops. I hit someone. I killed someone. Call the cops.”
Jahanghiri said, “Hi. What was going on?”
Veltman raised his voice. “Shut up and call the cops,” he said.
Jahanghiri did what he was told.
The 911 call, and some remarkable video footage captured by a surveillance camera at the mall – which tracked Veltman’s truck from the time it arrived in the parking lot to his departure in the back of a London police cruiser – was presented to the jury on Tuesday at Veltman’s first-degree murder trial.
“It was me. It was me who did it. So, come and arrest me,” Veltman said over Jahanghiri’s cellphone to Jennifer Weber, the 911 call taker, who also testified Tuesday.
Veltman, 22, of London has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the hit-and-run crash more than two years ago that the prosecution is arguing was a planned attack on Muslims by a white nationalist.
Killed were four members of a Pakistani-Muslim family: Talat Afzaal, 74; her son Salman Afzaal, 46; his wife Madiha Salman, 44; and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15. A boy, then nine, was severely injured.
The prosecution is seeking to prove the incident was both planned and deliberate and an act of terrorism. This is the first time in Canada terrorism laws will be argued before a jury in a first-degree murder trial.
The family was killed at the corner of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads when they were struck by Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck. The court heard in the Crown’s opening statement that the four Afzaal family members all died of blunt force trauma, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. The boy suffered multiple fractures.
Jahanghiri testified Tuesday afternoon and described the 15 minutes that played out in the parking lot just minutes after the family had been struck.
He said he was out of his cab having a coffee and waiting for calls, when Veltman rolled up and called out for the cabbie to call the police. For the most part, he said Veltman was calm.
Jahanghiri said he went back to his cab to retrieve his phone and called 911. At the beginning of the call, played for the jury, Jahanghiri told the 911 call taker, Weber, that “there’s a truck here and he said he hit somebody.”
By then, Weber testified, the London police dispatch office had been inundated with calls related to the crash in northwest London. She asked the cab driver to describe the truck and to give her the plate number.
That’s when Veltman, who was still in his truck, could be heard in the background, demanding the police get there to arrest him.
Veltman gave his name, spelled it out and his birthdate. Weber asked if he was injured.
“Nope, did it on purpose … Get . . . . over here, would you?” Veltman yelled.
He called Weber a “Godbot” after Weber asked why he did it.
Jahanghiri took over the call and could be seen in the video moving to the back of the truck to get the plate number. He stayed on the line, but told the court once he could hear the sirens, he moved toward Oxford Street to flag down the police.
Only then, did Veltman get out of the truck, move toward a light post, get on his knees and put his hands on his head.
A cruiser, lights flashing, drove into the east entrance of the mall’s lot. “Make a video. Make a video,” Veltman said to Jahanghiri. More and more cruisers arrived.
Veltman could be seen moving from his knees to his hands and knees, then prone to the ground once the police approached him. He was handcuffed and taken to stand by a cruiser.
When the police were leading him to the cruiser, he turned to Jahanghiri and said, “I told you to make a video.”
“I ignored him. I went to my cab,” Jahanghiri testified.
He said the police took off Veltman’s jacket and the cab driver could see he was wearing a bullet-proof vest. Under the vest was a T-shirt with a big cross or plus-sign on it.
He said Veltman was “kind of smiling” and was saying things to no one in particular. He didn’t know what it was about.
Jahanghiri said he also noticed the damage to the truck. The front and hood were damaged and the engine was smoking.
He also saw body tissue on the front bumper and the headlights.
Jahanghiri lingered to give a statement to the police. He ended up trying to work that night because he couldn’t sleep.
But he couldn’t work either because of what he saw and experienced.
“I just went home and started crying,” he said.
“I didn’t know what to do.”
jsims@postmedia.com
torontosun.com
A 15-minute video played Tuesday morning was shot from a mall’s surveillance system.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 12, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 4 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes graphic details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – Cab driver Azzeddin Jahanghiri thought the driver of the pickup truck might be hurt or need help with his damaged vehicle.
But instead, he came face-to-face with Nathaniel Veltman, fresh from running down a Muslim family with his truck. Veltman was in the driver’s seat wearing an army helmet. He had one request for the London Taxi driver.
“Call the cops. Call the cops,” Veltman said from the driver’s seat of the black pickup truck that had wheeled up to within a metre of Jahanghiri’s cab parked near the east side of the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot at 8:45 p.m. on June 6, 2021.
“I just hit someone. Call the cops. I hit someone. I killed someone. Call the cops.”
Jahanghiri said, “Hi. What was going on?”
Veltman raised his voice. “Shut up and call the cops,” he said.
Jahanghiri did what he was told.
The 911 call, and some remarkable video footage captured by a surveillance camera at the mall – which tracked Veltman’s truck from the time it arrived in the parking lot to his departure in the back of a London police cruiser – was presented to the jury on Tuesday at Veltman’s first-degree murder trial.
“It was me. It was me who did it. So, come and arrest me,” Veltman said over Jahanghiri’s cellphone to Jennifer Weber, the 911 call taker, who also testified Tuesday.
Veltman, 22, of London has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the hit-and-run crash more than two years ago that the prosecution is arguing was a planned attack on Muslims by a white nationalist.
Killed were four members of a Pakistani-Muslim family: Talat Afzaal, 74; her son Salman Afzaal, 46; his wife Madiha Salman, 44; and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15. A boy, then nine, was severely injured.
The prosecution is seeking to prove the incident was both planned and deliberate and an act of terrorism. This is the first time in Canada terrorism laws will be argued before a jury in a first-degree murder trial.
The family was killed at the corner of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads when they were struck by Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck. The court heard in the Crown’s opening statement that the four Afzaal family members all died of blunt force trauma, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. The boy suffered multiple fractures.
Jahanghiri testified Tuesday afternoon and described the 15 minutes that played out in the parking lot just minutes after the family had been struck.
He said he was out of his cab having a coffee and waiting for calls, when Veltman rolled up and called out for the cabbie to call the police. For the most part, he said Veltman was calm.
Jahanghiri said he went back to his cab to retrieve his phone and called 911. At the beginning of the call, played for the jury, Jahanghiri told the 911 call taker, Weber, that “there’s a truck here and he said he hit somebody.”
By then, Weber testified, the London police dispatch office had been inundated with calls related to the crash in northwest London. She asked the cab driver to describe the truck and to give her the plate number.
That’s when Veltman, who was still in his truck, could be heard in the background, demanding the police get there to arrest him.
Veltman gave his name, spelled it out and his birthdate. Weber asked if he was injured.
“Nope, did it on purpose … Get . . . . over here, would you?” Veltman yelled.
He called Weber a “Godbot” after Weber asked why he did it.
Jahanghiri took over the call and could be seen in the video moving to the back of the truck to get the plate number. He stayed on the line, but told the court once he could hear the sirens, he moved toward Oxford Street to flag down the police.
Only then, did Veltman get out of the truck, move toward a light post, get on his knees and put his hands on his head.
A cruiser, lights flashing, drove into the east entrance of the mall’s lot. “Make a video. Make a video,” Veltman said to Jahanghiri. More and more cruisers arrived.
Veltman could be seen moving from his knees to his hands and knees, then prone to the ground once the police approached him. He was handcuffed and taken to stand by a cruiser.
When the police were leading him to the cruiser, he turned to Jahanghiri and said, “I told you to make a video.”
“I ignored him. I went to my cab,” Jahanghiri testified.
He said the police took off Veltman’s jacket and the cab driver could see he was wearing a bullet-proof vest. Under the vest was a T-shirt with a big cross or plus-sign on it.
He said Veltman was “kind of smiling” and was saying things to no one in particular. He didn’t know what it was about.
Jahanghiri said he also noticed the damage to the truck. The front and hood were damaged and the engine was smoking.
He also saw body tissue on the front bumper and the headlights.
Jahanghiri lingered to give a statement to the police. He ended up trying to work that night because he couldn’t sleep.
But he couldn’t work either because of what he saw and experienced.
“I just went home and started crying,” he said.
“I didn’t know what to do.”
jsims@postmedia.com
'Call the cops': Cabbie recounts 911 call at Nathaniel Veltman's behest
A London cab driver testified Tuesday at the trial of Nathaniel Veltman about his encounter with Veltman in a parking lot on June 6, 2021
Jury sees video of Nathaniel Veltman at police HQ
He was led into the London police booking area after being searched and stood on the designated red ‘X’ on the floor, facing the booking sergeant.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 13, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 5 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes graphic details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – He was led into the London police booking area after being searched and stood on the designated red ‘X’ on the floor, facing the booking sergeant.
“What is the name of this gentleman?” asked the sergeant as he started the booking procedure.
“Nathaniel Veltman,” said the arresting officer.
The cell sergeant asked the officer what Veltman was charged with. “First-degree murder,” the officer replied.
Veltman was wearing black pants with the pockets turned out, white socks, and a white T-shirt with what appeared to be a large spray-painted black cross on the front and the back.
He stood with his hands at his sides. He kept glancing to his right to where he could see a TV behind the large raised desk broadcasting an NHL hockey game. But Veltman clearly was able to answer the sergeant’s standard questions.
One of the inquiries was whether Veltman believed he needed to be in protective custody.
“Obviously for what I did, obviously I’m going to have enemies,” Veltman said.
The exchange, shown to the jury in a video at Veltman’s first-degree murder trial, was less than an hour after Veltman had been arrested in the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot on June 6, 2021. Veltman had driven there in his heavily damaged black Dodge pickup truck minutes after striking a Pakistani-Muslim family out for a springtime walk.
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the crash that killed Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, his mother Talat Afzaal, 74, and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15. Their son was injured.
All four died of blunt force trauma injuries, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. The boy, then nine-years-old, survived.
The trial, now slated to last eight weeks, is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws are being argued in front of a jury in a first-degree murder case. Prosecutors are seeking to prove the deaths were both planned and deliberate and that the hit-and-run was a planned attack on Muslims by a white nationalist.
However, the video evidence showing the booking of Veltman shown Wednesday was part of the defence cross-examination of Viktor Poc, a London police forensics specialist. His evidence for the Crown was the edited surveillance video seized from a hardware store near the crime scene and a video of the arrest that was captured by cameras outside the mall.
Defence lawyer Christopher Hicks wants to show the jury video that was retrieved from the extensive security system that includes about 30 cameras inside London police headquarters. He told the jury he intends to show it four hours of selected video taken from hours of footage from the police station that was recorded when Veltman was in police custody.
If Wednesday was any indication, this process will take time. The first section of video was of the poice cruiser carrying Veltman arriving at police headquarters. The footage was fast-tracked to when Veltman was removed from the cruiser, searched and taken into the booking area.
The jury was able to see the entire booking process. Parts of it were played twice because the audio was difficult to understand and the jury had to be given a transcript.
But what seemed clear is that Veltman was able to answer all the questions he was asked: his date of birth, his address in downtown London, that he lived alone at that address for a year and a month. He reeled off his cell phone number.
The booking sergeant asked Veltman if he had taken any drugs or alcohol that day
Veltman said he did some “shrooms” at about 2:30 a.m. on Saturday morning, so, “Not in the last day,” he said.
Because of the pandemic, all of the officers were wearing face masks and Veltman was told to put one on at the beginning of the booking. The booking sergeant asked questions related to the police COVID-19 protocol, including whether Veltman had been out of town over the last two weeks.
“I used to work in Stathroy,” Veltman told the officer.
He said he felt well and had not been around anyone diagnosed with COVID-19. He said he “possibly” had a peanut allergy, but he had eaten some and had no reaction.
He also said he had been arrested twice before for public intoxication.
When asked if he ever had thoughts of harming himself, Veltman said two months earlier he had been considering something. “Originally, it was strangulation,, then something changed me and it’s complicated,” he said.
He assured the booking sergeant that there was no reason to believe he would harm himself in custody.
The jury saw up to when Veltman was being led to a room where he woud be able to contact a lawyer, before Superior Court Justice Renee Pomerance released them for the day.
Also testifying Wednesday was Lindsay Marshall, a Londoner who was on her fifth floor balcony reading at her apartment near the crash scene when she heard the sound of an engine revving.
From her vantage point, she saw a black pickup truck, heading south on Hyde Park Road that appeared to speed up, mount the curb and hit something at the intersection of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads, she said.
At first, she said, she thought the truck hit a sign or a mailbox. “I saw something go flying 30 or 40 feet,” she said. She knew there were some real estate signs on the corner and she immediately thought the object might be one of them or a mailbox.
The pickup truck returned to the road and kept going south. Marshall said she saw several northbound motorists stop, get out of their vehicles and head toward the collision site.
“I didn’t know what I really just saw,” she said.
Marshall testified she heard sirens and saw a police car speed up. An officer got out of the car and went to where the object and flown and appeared to begin CPR on a person.
Marshall said she thought only one person had been hit but then saw people gathering around another person.
She said through questions from assistant Crown attorney Jennifer Moser that she was not close enough to see a licence plate or make of the black pickup.
Marshall didn’t report what she saw for about an hour. “I was standing there for a bit of time in shock. I couldn’t believe it,” she said.
An hour after the crash, she saw that a police officer had blocked off the intersection. She left her apartment and spoke to the officer at the blockade.
The trial continues Thursday.
jsims@postmedia.com
torontosun.com
He was led into the London police booking area after being searched and stood on the designated red ‘X’ on the floor, facing the booking sergeant.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 13, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 5 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes graphic details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – He was led into the London police booking area after being searched and stood on the designated red ‘X’ on the floor, facing the booking sergeant.
“What is the name of this gentleman?” asked the sergeant as he started the booking procedure.
“Nathaniel Veltman,” said the arresting officer.
The cell sergeant asked the officer what Veltman was charged with. “First-degree murder,” the officer replied.
Veltman was wearing black pants with the pockets turned out, white socks, and a white T-shirt with what appeared to be a large spray-painted black cross on the front and the back.
He stood with his hands at his sides. He kept glancing to his right to where he could see a TV behind the large raised desk broadcasting an NHL hockey game. But Veltman clearly was able to answer the sergeant’s standard questions.
One of the inquiries was whether Veltman believed he needed to be in protective custody.
“Obviously for what I did, obviously I’m going to have enemies,” Veltman said.
The exchange, shown to the jury in a video at Veltman’s first-degree murder trial, was less than an hour after Veltman had been arrested in the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot on June 6, 2021. Veltman had driven there in his heavily damaged black Dodge pickup truck minutes after striking a Pakistani-Muslim family out for a springtime walk.
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the crash that killed Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, his mother Talat Afzaal, 74, and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15. Their son was injured.
All four died of blunt force trauma injuries, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. The boy, then nine-years-old, survived.
The trial, now slated to last eight weeks, is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws are being argued in front of a jury in a first-degree murder case. Prosecutors are seeking to prove the deaths were both planned and deliberate and that the hit-and-run was a planned attack on Muslims by a white nationalist.
However, the video evidence showing the booking of Veltman shown Wednesday was part of the defence cross-examination of Viktor Poc, a London police forensics specialist. His evidence for the Crown was the edited surveillance video seized from a hardware store near the crime scene and a video of the arrest that was captured by cameras outside the mall.
Defence lawyer Christopher Hicks wants to show the jury video that was retrieved from the extensive security system that includes about 30 cameras inside London police headquarters. He told the jury he intends to show it four hours of selected video taken from hours of footage from the police station that was recorded when Veltman was in police custody.
If Wednesday was any indication, this process will take time. The first section of video was of the poice cruiser carrying Veltman arriving at police headquarters. The footage was fast-tracked to when Veltman was removed from the cruiser, searched and taken into the booking area.
The jury was able to see the entire booking process. Parts of it were played twice because the audio was difficult to understand and the jury had to be given a transcript.
But what seemed clear is that Veltman was able to answer all the questions he was asked: his date of birth, his address in downtown London, that he lived alone at that address for a year and a month. He reeled off his cell phone number.
The booking sergeant asked Veltman if he had taken any drugs or alcohol that day
Veltman said he did some “shrooms” at about 2:30 a.m. on Saturday morning, so, “Not in the last day,” he said.
Because of the pandemic, all of the officers were wearing face masks and Veltman was told to put one on at the beginning of the booking. The booking sergeant asked questions related to the police COVID-19 protocol, including whether Veltman had been out of town over the last two weeks.
“I used to work in Stathroy,” Veltman told the officer.
He said he felt well and had not been around anyone diagnosed with COVID-19. He said he “possibly” had a peanut allergy, but he had eaten some and had no reaction.
He also said he had been arrested twice before for public intoxication.
When asked if he ever had thoughts of harming himself, Veltman said two months earlier he had been considering something. “Originally, it was strangulation,, then something changed me and it’s complicated,” he said.
He assured the booking sergeant that there was no reason to believe he would harm himself in custody.
The jury saw up to when Veltman was being led to a room where he woud be able to contact a lawyer, before Superior Court Justice Renee Pomerance released them for the day.
Also testifying Wednesday was Lindsay Marshall, a Londoner who was on her fifth floor balcony reading at her apartment near the crash scene when she heard the sound of an engine revving.
From her vantage point, she saw a black pickup truck, heading south on Hyde Park Road that appeared to speed up, mount the curb and hit something at the intersection of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads, she said.
At first, she said, she thought the truck hit a sign or a mailbox. “I saw something go flying 30 or 40 feet,” she said. She knew there were some real estate signs on the corner and she immediately thought the object might be one of them or a mailbox.
The pickup truck returned to the road and kept going south. Marshall said she saw several northbound motorists stop, get out of their vehicles and head toward the collision site.
“I didn’t know what I really just saw,” she said.
Marshall testified she heard sirens and saw a police car speed up. An officer got out of the car and went to where the object and flown and appeared to begin CPR on a person.
Marshall said she thought only one person had been hit but then saw people gathering around another person.
She said through questions from assistant Crown attorney Jennifer Moser that she was not close enough to see a licence plate or make of the black pickup.
Marshall didn’t report what she saw for about an hour. “I was standing there for a bit of time in shock. I couldn’t believe it,” she said.
An hour after the crash, she saw that a police officer had blocked off the intersection. She left her apartment and spoke to the officer at the blockade.
The trial continues Thursday.
jsims@postmedia.com
'I’m going to have enemies': Jury sees video of Nathaniel Veltman at police HQ
The jury in the trial of Nathaniel Veltman watched video Wednesday of when he was booked at London police headquarters on June 6, 2021
Veltman trial to hear from detective who interviewed accused
The next scheduled Crown witness interviewed Veltman for hours after he was arrested for a deadly hit-and-run crash.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 14, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 5 minute read
WINDSOR – The next scheduled Crown witness at Nathaniel Veltman’s hit-and-run murder trial interviewed Veltman for hours after he was arrested for a deadly hit-and-run crash.
During a mid-trial instruction to the jury Thursday, Superior Court Justice Renee Pomerance said the witness is expected to be “Det. Bourdeau” of the London police service.
At the beginning of jury selection last week, Middlesex Crown attorney Fraser Ball listed Det. Micah Bourdeau as one of the police officers who either would be testifying or would be mentioned during the Crown’s case.
The jury got a glimpse of Bourdeau Thursday when he is seen escorting Veltman to and from a police interview room during a day-long look at video from Veltman’s time in police custody following his arrest on June 6, 2021.
“Mr. Veltman was interviewed in that room by an officer named Det. Bourdeau who I understand is the Crown’s next witness,” the judge said.
“You will not be seeing any video of what takes place in the interview until such time as Det. Bourdeau testifies.”
Pomerance made the comments to explain the gap in the video presentation. The footage was presented during defence lawyer Christopher Hicks’s cross-examination of Viktor Poc, the forensics specialist with London police.
More than four hours of court time was reviewing Veltman’s movements in police headquarters – except for his police interviews – for 15 hours up until 11:20 a.m. on June 7, 2021. What the jury saw was Veltman doing a lot of pacing, sitting and lying down in two cells and a room set aside for arrested people to talk privately with a lawyer.
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the hit-and-run crash on June 6, 2021, that killed four members of a London family and severely injured their son.
Talat Afzaal, 74, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15, all died of blunt force trauma injuries, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. Their son, who was nine at the time, was severely injured, but survived.
They were a Pakistani-Muslim family. Prosecutors are seeking to prove the deaths were planned and deliberate and that it was an attack aimed at Muslims by a white nationalist.
The trial, originally slated for 12 weeks, but now estimated to last eight weeks, is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws are being argued in front of a jury in a first-degree murder case.
Poc began his testimony earlier this week when he presented videos retrieved from a hardware store surveillance system near the crash scene that showed Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck mount the curb to the sidewalk where the Afzaal family were standing at the southwest corner of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads.
The other video evidence Poc showed was footage retrieved from the Cherryhill Village Mall security system that captured Veltman’s arrest by London police.
The defence cross-examination videos are not as dramatic. The London police have about 30 camera angles and can capture every movement of someone brought into custody.
Other than the booking video shown on Wednesday in which Veltman is heard answering a series of questions after being searched, most of Thursday’s videos show Veltman doing a lot of waiting.
Most of the videos were played at a speed several times faster than normal.
That video begins with Veltman, still wearing a white T-shirt with what appears to be large black crosses spray-painted on the front and back, at 9:46 p.m., about an hour after his arrest in the mall’s parking lot. He is in a small room with a wooden bench fastened to one wall and a telephone on the wall.
Veltman lies down on the bench, hands behind his head, staring at the ceiling. But for the most part, as defence lawyer Christopher Hicks suggested in questioning, Veltman “is in constant motion.” He paces in circles and sometimes looks through the glass partition.
He picks up the phone receiver at 10:35 p.m. – almost two hours after his arrest – and appears to speak to someone for about 11 minutes.
He is removed from that small room by an officer at about 10:58 p.m.
The next video the jury was shown was of Veltman being taken to the tiny dry holding cell, cell No. 19, that has only a concrete slab for a bed and no toilet. He remains in the cell for two hours and 20 minutes.
There is more pacing back and forth. Sometimes, he sits on the concrete bed, but not much time passes until he is on his feet again. Hicks pointed out Veltman is alone – although officers can be seen walking past the cell periodically – and he has no blanket or pillow. Hicks also suggested Veltman hadn’t been offered any food or drink.
Veltman is removed from the cell at 1:18 a.m. by an officer. The next segment of video shows Veltman walking with Boudreau down a short hall to the interview room.
He emerges from the room with Bourdeau more than two hours later at 3:50 a.m.
Veltman is placed in cell No. 4 that has two concrete beds and a toilet. Until then, he had been in socks, but Veltman has shoes on when he is put in the holding cell. Poc edited the video to ensure the jury didn’t see any time Veltman used the facilities.
There is more pacing, more sitting, more lying down on the bed. An officer is seen leaving a cup of liquid for him outside the cell that Veltman retrieves and drinks.
He is in the cell until 6:10 a.m. when he is escorted to a room where cadets take his photo and do fingerprinting.
That takes 16 minutes. Then, it is back to cell No. 4 where Veltman is alone, pacing some more and appearing to try to sleep. Breakfast is delivered at 7:23 a.m.
Bourdeau appears at Veltman’s cell just after 9:30 a.m. Veltman appears to be waking up and stretches.
Just before 10 a.m., Veltman is shown walking down the same hall to the interview room. They come out at 11:20 a.m. and Veltman appears to have a blanket in his arms.
Poc finished his testimony.
The next Crown witness will be called on Friday morning.
jsims@postmedia.com
torontosun.com
The next scheduled Crown witness interviewed Veltman for hours after he was arrested for a deadly hit-and-run crash.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 14, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 5 minute read
WINDSOR – The next scheduled Crown witness at Nathaniel Veltman’s hit-and-run murder trial interviewed Veltman for hours after he was arrested for a deadly hit-and-run crash.
During a mid-trial instruction to the jury Thursday, Superior Court Justice Renee Pomerance said the witness is expected to be “Det. Bourdeau” of the London police service.
At the beginning of jury selection last week, Middlesex Crown attorney Fraser Ball listed Det. Micah Bourdeau as one of the police officers who either would be testifying or would be mentioned during the Crown’s case.
The jury got a glimpse of Bourdeau Thursday when he is seen escorting Veltman to and from a police interview room during a day-long look at video from Veltman’s time in police custody following his arrest on June 6, 2021.
“Mr. Veltman was interviewed in that room by an officer named Det. Bourdeau who I understand is the Crown’s next witness,” the judge said.
“You will not be seeing any video of what takes place in the interview until such time as Det. Bourdeau testifies.”
Pomerance made the comments to explain the gap in the video presentation. The footage was presented during defence lawyer Christopher Hicks’s cross-examination of Viktor Poc, the forensics specialist with London police.
More than four hours of court time was reviewing Veltman’s movements in police headquarters – except for his police interviews – for 15 hours up until 11:20 a.m. on June 7, 2021. What the jury saw was Veltman doing a lot of pacing, sitting and lying down in two cells and a room set aside for arrested people to talk privately with a lawyer.
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the hit-and-run crash on June 6, 2021, that killed four members of a London family and severely injured their son.
Talat Afzaal, 74, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah Afzaal, 15, all died of blunt force trauma injuries, multiple fractures and internal bleeding. Their son, who was nine at the time, was severely injured, but survived.
They were a Pakistani-Muslim family. Prosecutors are seeking to prove the deaths were planned and deliberate and that it was an attack aimed at Muslims by a white nationalist.
The trial, originally slated for 12 weeks, but now estimated to last eight weeks, is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws are being argued in front of a jury in a first-degree murder case.
Poc began his testimony earlier this week when he presented videos retrieved from a hardware store surveillance system near the crash scene that showed Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck mount the curb to the sidewalk where the Afzaal family were standing at the southwest corner of Hyde Park and South Carriage roads.
The other video evidence Poc showed was footage retrieved from the Cherryhill Village Mall security system that captured Veltman’s arrest by London police.
The defence cross-examination videos are not as dramatic. The London police have about 30 camera angles and can capture every movement of someone brought into custody.
Other than the booking video shown on Wednesday in which Veltman is heard answering a series of questions after being searched, most of Thursday’s videos show Veltman doing a lot of waiting.
Most of the videos were played at a speed several times faster than normal.
That video begins with Veltman, still wearing a white T-shirt with what appears to be large black crosses spray-painted on the front and back, at 9:46 p.m., about an hour after his arrest in the mall’s parking lot. He is in a small room with a wooden bench fastened to one wall and a telephone on the wall.
Veltman lies down on the bench, hands behind his head, staring at the ceiling. But for the most part, as defence lawyer Christopher Hicks suggested in questioning, Veltman “is in constant motion.” He paces in circles and sometimes looks through the glass partition.
He picks up the phone receiver at 10:35 p.m. – almost two hours after his arrest – and appears to speak to someone for about 11 minutes.
He is removed from that small room by an officer at about 10:58 p.m.
The next video the jury was shown was of Veltman being taken to the tiny dry holding cell, cell No. 19, that has only a concrete slab for a bed and no toilet. He remains in the cell for two hours and 20 minutes.
There is more pacing back and forth. Sometimes, he sits on the concrete bed, but not much time passes until he is on his feet again. Hicks pointed out Veltman is alone – although officers can be seen walking past the cell periodically – and he has no blanket or pillow. Hicks also suggested Veltman hadn’t been offered any food or drink.
Veltman is removed from the cell at 1:18 a.m. by an officer. The next segment of video shows Veltman walking with Boudreau down a short hall to the interview room.
He emerges from the room with Bourdeau more than two hours later at 3:50 a.m.
Veltman is placed in cell No. 4 that has two concrete beds and a toilet. Until then, he had been in socks, but Veltman has shoes on when he is put in the holding cell. Poc edited the video to ensure the jury didn’t see any time Veltman used the facilities.
There is more pacing, more sitting, more lying down on the bed. An officer is seen leaving a cup of liquid for him outside the cell that Veltman retrieves and drinks.
He is in the cell until 6:10 a.m. when he is escorted to a room where cadets take his photo and do fingerprinting.
That takes 16 minutes. Then, it is back to cell No. 4 where Veltman is alone, pacing some more and appearing to try to sleep. Breakfast is delivered at 7:23 a.m.
Bourdeau appears at Veltman’s cell just after 9:30 a.m. Veltman appears to be waking up and stretches.
Just before 10 a.m., Veltman is shown walking down the same hall to the interview room. They come out at 11:20 a.m. and Veltman appears to have a blanket in his arms.
Poc finished his testimony.
The next Crown witness will be called on Friday morning.
jsims@postmedia.com
Veltman trial: Jurors told next witness will be detective who interviewed accused
Jurors at the Nathaniel Veltman first-degree murder trial were told Thursday the next witness will be the detective who interviewed him
Arrest following crash triggered 'huge sense of relief,' Nathaniel Veltman told cop
Police officers arrested him in a London, Ont. shopping mall parking lot after a Muslim family was run down
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 18, 2023 • Last updated 9 hours ago • 5 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – Nathaniel Veltman said all he could feel was “relieved” when police officers were arresting him in a London shopping mall parking lot for running down a Muslim family with his pickup truck.
“I had this huge sense of relief,” Veltman told London police Det. Micah Bourdeau.
“Like, finally I actually went through with it,” he said.
Veltman said he knew he was going to jail but “the thought was the burden was off my back.”
At the same time, he told Bourdeau during his second police interview just hours after killing four members of the Afzaal family that “at first, I felt sick . . . and I will always feel sick.
“It wasn’t a very pleasurable thing to do,” Veltman said.
It was a far more introspective and subdued Veltman who met with Bourdeau at about 10 a.m. on June 7, 2021, than the boastful person who was bursting to tell the detective everything in his first police interview nine hours earlier.
The video of the last part of the second interview was played for the jury Monday at Veltman’s Superior Court trial in Windsor. He has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the attack on a Pakistani-Muslim family.
Talat Afzaal, 72, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, were killed when they were struck by Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck while they were out on a spring walk in northwest London on June 6, 2021. The couple’s son, who was nine at the time, was seriously injured but survived.
Veltman, 22, told Bourdeau in his first police interview he ran down the family “because they were Muslim.” The first interview began shortly after 1 a.m. and ended almost three hours later.
Veltman said he had planned the attack to send a message to “Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom” who he said were preying on young white girls and to inspire other young white nationalists to do what he did against Muslims.
But one of the many shocking revelations in the interviews was shown Monday when Bourdeau asked Veltman about someone Veltman described as his “closest friend,” a man named Ishmael, who Bourdeau pointed out is a Muslim.
“He technically comes from a Muslim family, but he’s not,” Veltman told Bourdeau.
“He’s not really Muslim. He comes from a Muslim family. It’s not really the same thing.”
Earlier in the interview, Bourdeau asked Veltman to talk about any close connections in his life. Veltman said he once did have close connections but not at the time of the attack. “I don’t think I had much to lose at all,” he said.
Bourdeau recognized Veltman was far quieter than he had been at his first interview. Veltman didn’t want to respond to Bourdeau’s reminder that Veltman told him earlier he had no regrets about what he did.
“I don’t know how I feel now,” he said. “I’m still thinking.”
The officer asked Veltman for a second time about his white T-shirt that had two spray-painted crosses on the front and back.
Veltman said “it was just a joke” about crusaders and he had made it a few months earlier. “It was a decoration on my wall, first,” he said.
Veltman still was wearing the shirt during the interview, as he was when he was arrested. Bourdeau reminded Veltman he was acting “cocky” during the arrest. Veltman corrected him.
“I was acting snobby,” he said. “I was acting like a snob when it first happened.”
He said he couldn’t take the police officers seriously because they were wearing facemasks. Bourdeau said one of the officers heard Veltman say, “I hope the news is here.”
Again, Veltman corrected Bourdeau. “No, I said, ‘I’m surprised they’re not here.’”
He agreed he flashed an “OK” signal with his hands as a white power symbol, just as his inspiration, Brenton Tarrant, the man responsible for the Christchurch, New Zealand, mosque killings, had done.
It is a symbol, Veltman said, that had been “highjacked” by white nationalists to irritate “liberals.”
He told the officer he could have chosen a more “sympathetic target,” like Antifa (a left-wing, anti-facist movement in the United States), or politicians, or “a bunch of CEOs meeting for which stupid . . . foreign policies they are thinking of enacting.”
But Veltman said he said he didn’t try any other attacks because “there is a risk of being caught, so that would have been stupid.”
He said he identified as a “white nationalist” even though he didn’t belong to an organized group, not “white power” because his cause was “autonomy of your own person” and to “have the right to exist and not be giving over to immigrants” who he said are trying to “replace us.”
Bourdeau said he couldn’t understand why Veltman did what he did. “I am too, to be perfectly honest,” Veltman said, however he said he had planned to carry out his attack by the end of the summer.
And he said he “can neither confirm or deny” he knew the family he killed.
But he assured Bourdeau he had acted alone. “There is nobody else in connection to what I did. This is a lone wolf,” he said.
Defence lawyer Christopher Hicks began his cross-examination and suggested the London police intentionally made Veltman uncomfortable by placing him in a cold, dry cell without a toilet, not giving him food or a blanket and making him wait to be interviewed.
Hicks suggested police didn’t have to interview Veltman at 1:15 a.m. and could have waited. Bourdeau disagreed.
“We, as an investigative team, believed we had to speak to him at that time. Our city has never seen anything like that before.
“I’d venture to say we didn’t know what we were dealing with. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. We didn’t know if there was a danger to the public.”
Bourdeau said Veltman was treated the same way as anyone detained at their facility.
Hicks replied, “He was treated like anyone else – badly.”
The trial continues on Tuesday.
jsims@postmedia.com
torontosun.com
Police officers arrested him in a London, Ont. shopping mall parking lot after a Muslim family was run down
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 18, 2023 • Last updated 9 hours ago • 5 minute read
EDITOR’S NOTE: This story includes details that may be upsetting to readers
WINDSOR – Nathaniel Veltman said all he could feel was “relieved” when police officers were arresting him in a London shopping mall parking lot for running down a Muslim family with his pickup truck.
“I had this huge sense of relief,” Veltman told London police Det. Micah Bourdeau.
“Like, finally I actually went through with it,” he said.
Veltman said he knew he was going to jail but “the thought was the burden was off my back.”
At the same time, he told Bourdeau during his second police interview just hours after killing four members of the Afzaal family that “at first, I felt sick . . . and I will always feel sick.
“It wasn’t a very pleasurable thing to do,” Veltman said.
It was a far more introspective and subdued Veltman who met with Bourdeau at about 10 a.m. on June 7, 2021, than the boastful person who was bursting to tell the detective everything in his first police interview nine hours earlier.
The video of the last part of the second interview was played for the jury Monday at Veltman’s Superior Court trial in Windsor. He has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the attack on a Pakistani-Muslim family.
Talat Afzaal, 72, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, were killed when they were struck by Veltman’s black Dodge pickup truck while they were out on a spring walk in northwest London on June 6, 2021. The couple’s son, who was nine at the time, was seriously injured but survived.
Veltman, 22, told Bourdeau in his first police interview he ran down the family “because they were Muslim.” The first interview began shortly after 1 a.m. and ended almost three hours later.
Veltman said he had planned the attack to send a message to “Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom” who he said were preying on young white girls and to inspire other young white nationalists to do what he did against Muslims.
But one of the many shocking revelations in the interviews was shown Monday when Bourdeau asked Veltman about someone Veltman described as his “closest friend,” a man named Ishmael, who Bourdeau pointed out is a Muslim.
“He technically comes from a Muslim family, but he’s not,” Veltman told Bourdeau.
“He’s not really Muslim. He comes from a Muslim family. It’s not really the same thing.”
Earlier in the interview, Bourdeau asked Veltman to talk about any close connections in his life. Veltman said he once did have close connections but not at the time of the attack. “I don’t think I had much to lose at all,” he said.
Bourdeau recognized Veltman was far quieter than he had been at his first interview. Veltman didn’t want to respond to Bourdeau’s reminder that Veltman told him earlier he had no regrets about what he did.
“I don’t know how I feel now,” he said. “I’m still thinking.”
The officer asked Veltman for a second time about his white T-shirt that had two spray-painted crosses on the front and back.
Veltman said “it was just a joke” about crusaders and he had made it a few months earlier. “It was a decoration on my wall, first,” he said.
Veltman still was wearing the shirt during the interview, as he was when he was arrested. Bourdeau reminded Veltman he was acting “cocky” during the arrest. Veltman corrected him.
“I was acting snobby,” he said. “I was acting like a snob when it first happened.”
He said he couldn’t take the police officers seriously because they were wearing facemasks. Bourdeau said one of the officers heard Veltman say, “I hope the news is here.”
Again, Veltman corrected Bourdeau. “No, I said, ‘I’m surprised they’re not here.’”
He agreed he flashed an “OK” signal with his hands as a white power symbol, just as his inspiration, Brenton Tarrant, the man responsible for the Christchurch, New Zealand, mosque killings, had done.
It is a symbol, Veltman said, that had been “highjacked” by white nationalists to irritate “liberals.”
He told the officer he could have chosen a more “sympathetic target,” like Antifa (a left-wing, anti-facist movement in the United States), or politicians, or “a bunch of CEOs meeting for which stupid . . . foreign policies they are thinking of enacting.”
But Veltman said he said he didn’t try any other attacks because “there is a risk of being caught, so that would have been stupid.”
He said he identified as a “white nationalist” even though he didn’t belong to an organized group, not “white power” because his cause was “autonomy of your own person” and to “have the right to exist and not be giving over to immigrants” who he said are trying to “replace us.”
Bourdeau said he couldn’t understand why Veltman did what he did. “I am too, to be perfectly honest,” Veltman said, however he said he had planned to carry out his attack by the end of the summer.
And he said he “can neither confirm or deny” he knew the family he killed.
But he assured Bourdeau he had acted alone. “There is nobody else in connection to what I did. This is a lone wolf,” he said.
Defence lawyer Christopher Hicks began his cross-examination and suggested the London police intentionally made Veltman uncomfortable by placing him in a cold, dry cell without a toilet, not giving him food or a blanket and making him wait to be interviewed.
Hicks suggested police didn’t have to interview Veltman at 1:15 a.m. and could have waited. Bourdeau disagreed.
“We, as an investigative team, believed we had to speak to him at that time. Our city has never seen anything like that before.
“I’d venture to say we didn’t know what we were dealing with. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. We didn’t know if there was a danger to the public.”
Bourdeau said Veltman was treated the same way as anyone detained at their facility.
Hicks replied, “He was treated like anyone else – badly.”
The trial continues on Tuesday.
jsims@postmedia.com
Arrest following crash triggered 'huge sense of relief': Nathaniel Veltman
Nathaniel Veltman told a London police detective in a video played at his murder trial on Monday he felt relieved after he was arrested
yeah,
I mean..
as long as Muzzies got no problem doing it
why should anyone else?
just be sure you're doing it for Allah!
well, it's not that they're not real humans
it's that they don't believe in real humans
I believe in you, Tee
it's not always good but I believe in you!
:?D
Detective rebuffs Veltman defence lawyer's criticism of police
In the early moments of his interview with Nathaniel Veltman, Det. Micah Bourdeau offered him food and something to drink.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 19, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 4 minute read
WINDSOR – In the early moments of his interview with suspect Nathaniel Veltman, London police Det. Micah Bourdeau offered him food and something to drink.
Veltman, arrested a few hours earlier for running down a Muslim family with his pickup truck, said he was fine and would let Bourdeau know if he needed anything.
Veltman’s defence lawyer suggested Tuesday Bourdeau was “exploiting” the situation to get Veltman to open up to him.
“I was not,” Bourdeau told defence lawyer Christopher Hicks, insisting there was not “protocol” set at London police headquarters to deny suspects food and drink before they are interviewed. “I was just trying to make him comfortable and to be nice.”
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the deaths of a Pakistani-Muslim family in northwest London on June 6, 2021.
Talat Afzaal, 72, her son, Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, were killed when Veltman drove his Dodge Ram pickup truck into them while they were out for a walk.
All four died of blunt force trauma, fractures and internal bleeding. Their son, nine at the time, was severely injured but survived.
The prosecution is seeking to prove Veltman committed planned and deliberate murder and that the killings were an act of terrorism. This is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws have been argued in front of a jury at a first-degree murder trial.
The jury has seen two lengthy, provocative police interviews, both conducted during the first 15 hours Veltman was in police custody. He had been arrested in a London shopping mall parking lot within minutes of the killings at about 8:45 p.m.
The first interview began after 1 a.m. the next morning and continued for almost three hours. During the conversation, Veltman said he had gone out in his pickup truck that evening “to kill Muslims.”
He told Bourdeau he wanted to “send a message” to Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom and to be an inspiration to other young, like-minded white nationalists.
The second interview began after 10 a.m. and Veltman was far more subdued. In both interviews, he described the attack as “distasteful” but believed he had to do it.
The crux of the defence’s cross-examination of Bourdeau was to suggest the officer should have heard alarm bells going off during the interviews that Veltman was not in a normal mental state.
But Bourdeau disagreed. “I had no concerns about his state of mind when we were talking,” he said.
Hicks pointed to passages in the interview transcript when Veltman said he harboured suicidal thoughts in the past, that he had been depressed before and that in the early morning hours of the day before the attack, he had consumed magic mushrooms that had left him “feeling pretty gross.”
“All I can say to that is he was feeling depressed on Saturday (the day before the hit-and-run) and feeling gross was an after-effect from taking psilocybin (magic mushrooms),” Bourdeau said.
Veltman told Bourdeau he was feeling “down” while driving to work in Strathroy on June 6, 2021, and admitted to Bourdeau he was “a little shaken” by what he had done.
Bourdeau said he accepted what Veltman said at face value, but he had no concerns about the suspect’s state of mind.
“I didn’t doubt he felt those things, but I didn’t feel it was so concerning that we couldn’t speak any more,” he said.
Hicks pointed out Bourdeau asked Veltman point-blank about his mental state. Bourdeau said that was part of his information gathering.
The jury was re-shown a short clip in the interview room when Veltman was left alone. He paced, then went into a corner and appeared to bend at the waist, his hands on his knees. Bourdeau walked back into the room to make sure Veltman was all right.
Bourdeau said he caught a glimpse of Veltman doubled over on a monitor and went back in to check. “I thought he might be having some stomach issues,” he said.
Hicks returned to his assertion that London police have a protocol to deny suspects nourishment until they’re being interviewed and suggested that’s why Bourdeau was offering food to Veltman.
“There is no protocol, sir,” Bourdeau said to Hicks.
Hicks also pointed to eight occasions when Veltman refused to answer Bourdeau’s specific questions and said he wanted to talk to his lawyer first. Bourdeau had made it clear several times to Veltman he didn’t have to talk to the officer if he didn’t want to.
In the second interview, which began about six hours after the first interview ended, Veltman mentioned he was “confused” and “in shock.”
He declined initially to explain why he flashed an “OK” symbol – which he later said was a nod to white power and white nationalism – with his hands at a police officer when he was arrested in the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot.
Veltman also told Bourdeau he couldn’t remember some of the comments he made in the first interview.
Hicks asked again if these comments “bought to mind Mr. Veltman’s mental state, his state of mind.”
“No, I was not concerned about his mental state,” Bourdeau said.
The trial is taking a day off Wednesday and will return on Thursday.
jsims@postmedia.com
Twitter.com/JaneatLFPress
torontosun.com
In the early moments of his interview with Nathaniel Veltman, Det. Micah Bourdeau offered him food and something to drink.
Author of the article:Jane Sims
Published Sep 19, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 4 minute read
WINDSOR – In the early moments of his interview with suspect Nathaniel Veltman, London police Det. Micah Bourdeau offered him food and something to drink.
Veltman, arrested a few hours earlier for running down a Muslim family with his pickup truck, said he was fine and would let Bourdeau know if he needed anything.
Veltman’s defence lawyer suggested Tuesday Bourdeau was “exploiting” the situation to get Veltman to open up to him.
“I was not,” Bourdeau told defence lawyer Christopher Hicks, insisting there was not “protocol” set at London police headquarters to deny suspects food and drink before they are interviewed. “I was just trying to make him comfortable and to be nice.”
Veltman, 22, has pleaded not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder for the deaths of a Pakistani-Muslim family in northwest London on June 6, 2021.
Talat Afzaal, 72, her son, Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, were killed when Veltman drove his Dodge Ram pickup truck into them while they were out for a walk.
All four died of blunt force trauma, fractures and internal bleeding. Their son, nine at the time, was severely injured but survived.
The prosecution is seeking to prove Veltman committed planned and deliberate murder and that the killings were an act of terrorism. This is the first time Canada’s terrorism laws have been argued in front of a jury at a first-degree murder trial.
The jury has seen two lengthy, provocative police interviews, both conducted during the first 15 hours Veltman was in police custody. He had been arrested in a London shopping mall parking lot within minutes of the killings at about 8:45 p.m.
The first interview began after 1 a.m. the next morning and continued for almost three hours. During the conversation, Veltman said he had gone out in his pickup truck that evening “to kill Muslims.”
He told Bourdeau he wanted to “send a message” to Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom and to be an inspiration to other young, like-minded white nationalists.
The second interview began after 10 a.m. and Veltman was far more subdued. In both interviews, he described the attack as “distasteful” but believed he had to do it.
The crux of the defence’s cross-examination of Bourdeau was to suggest the officer should have heard alarm bells going off during the interviews that Veltman was not in a normal mental state.
But Bourdeau disagreed. “I had no concerns about his state of mind when we were talking,” he said.
Hicks pointed to passages in the interview transcript when Veltman said he harboured suicidal thoughts in the past, that he had been depressed before and that in the early morning hours of the day before the attack, he had consumed magic mushrooms that had left him “feeling pretty gross.”
“All I can say to that is he was feeling depressed on Saturday (the day before the hit-and-run) and feeling gross was an after-effect from taking psilocybin (magic mushrooms),” Bourdeau said.
Veltman told Bourdeau he was feeling “down” while driving to work in Strathroy on June 6, 2021, and admitted to Bourdeau he was “a little shaken” by what he had done.
Bourdeau said he accepted what Veltman said at face value, but he had no concerns about the suspect’s state of mind.
“I didn’t doubt he felt those things, but I didn’t feel it was so concerning that we couldn’t speak any more,” he said.
Hicks pointed out Bourdeau asked Veltman point-blank about his mental state. Bourdeau said that was part of his information gathering.
The jury was re-shown a short clip in the interview room when Veltman was left alone. He paced, then went into a corner and appeared to bend at the waist, his hands on his knees. Bourdeau walked back into the room to make sure Veltman was all right.
Bourdeau said he caught a glimpse of Veltman doubled over on a monitor and went back in to check. “I thought he might be having some stomach issues,” he said.
Hicks returned to his assertion that London police have a protocol to deny suspects nourishment until they’re being interviewed and suggested that’s why Bourdeau was offering food to Veltman.
“There is no protocol, sir,” Bourdeau said to Hicks.
Hicks also pointed to eight occasions when Veltman refused to answer Bourdeau’s specific questions and said he wanted to talk to his lawyer first. Bourdeau had made it clear several times to Veltman he didn’t have to talk to the officer if he didn’t want to.
In the second interview, which began about six hours after the first interview ended, Veltman mentioned he was “confused” and “in shock.”
He declined initially to explain why he flashed an “OK” symbol – which he later said was a nod to white power and white nationalism – with his hands at a police officer when he was arrested in the Cherryhill Village Mall parking lot.
Veltman also told Bourdeau he couldn’t remember some of the comments he made in the first interview.
Hicks asked again if these comments “bought to mind Mr. Veltman’s mental state, his state of mind.”
“No, I was not concerned about his mental state,” Bourdeau said.
The trial is taking a day off Wednesday and will return on Thursday.
jsims@postmedia.com
Twitter.com/JaneatLFPress
Veltman trial: Detective rebuffs defence lawyer's criticism of police
In the early moments of his interview with Nathaniel Veltman, London police Det. Micah Bourdeau offered him food and something to drink.
Shoulda swung him by Burger King for lunch. That's what we do with Real American who kill undesirables.
fact is, to make the world a better place a helluvalotta people gotta die.
not sayin' I ain't one of 'em
just sayin'
not sayin' I ain't one of 'em
just sayin'
At least 3/4 of the current population.
The key question is. . . have we truly escaped the overpopulation/dieback cycle, or just put off the day of reckoning?
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
(I was thinking, during the height of isis, that we could do with 1.6 billion less people as a starting point)
imagine the greenhouse gases coming off of 6 billion cadavers.
never mind the smell. lol
it should be clear that the way to eliminate AGW is not to eradicate humanity
Well, we could start with the ones who don't believe carbon dioxide and methane are greenhouse gases cuz JEE-zuss!
sure, and then when it's realized that that didn't stop CO2 and methane from happening anyway, all those who thought it would are next. lol
and on it goes.