Peaceful Muslim Protests in Toronto and Montreal

[nelk]

I assume there are still some christians out here;
or at least lets recognize that the historic fact of christianity has deeply shaped our western societies rightly or wrongly to what we love or loath today.
Can you imagine the western world; even its very existence as you know it ,without this history?
"Modern" thinking too easily likes to dismiss and diminishes this heritage and like a elephant in the porcelain shop damage is done without considering the action and damages.

Just remember some of the keypoints in (prophet) Jesus' teachings as recorded in the gospel of Matthew .
Most famous one states the Golden Rule.... "dont do to others what you dont like to have done to yourself"....or
..."by its fruits you can recognize god or bad"......

Because of this "christianity" we have developed to what we are today... and yes it allows us freedoms, and we developed ideas about what we perceive as virtues or degenerated into behavior of vices.
But in any case we have been given free choice and can make good use of it.
This development was not without pain, and judgement is not out yet; but we surely pay the price where we misjudge and overstep
given guidance..... but who likes to listen??

Unfortunately a mainstream religion has not yet come to this understanding of tolerance and agape love.

I dont know of any of the vast number of christian based religions and sects condemming nonbelievers as infidels, unclean and fit for destruction etc.
True, the benefits particular to this or that religion may not be available to such outside of a particular faith, but again its a matter of faith anyway.
The one condemming and judging are none other than the gods of such religions.
The times have long passed when some christian leaders can and are taking it on to themselves to meter out physical "judgement"...
praise the lord.

So more calm and less irretation should be the order of the day;
demonstrations on either side wont work!

Question still in want of answer ;

"What can we do for the next few hundred years waiting for our next to develop the same understanding, unless we blow us all up
in a out of control rage?

 

[MMMike]

We have every right to "touch" Muhammed's life and history any time we please, thank you very much.

No you don't.

If you want them to respect you. You respect them. And if that means you can't do bigoted things involving cartoons about Muhammed then that is tough luck.

Absolutely WRONG!

If "Piss Christ" (an "art work" consisting of a crucifix floating in a bottle of urine) is exceptable, even in a government supported show, then depictions of the Prophet doing whatever are fully acceptable.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.

Offensive speech is exactly what must be allowed.

If speech offends nobody, then why do we need a right to free speech?

We don't.

Speech that offends is exactly what it is necessary to protect.

:hello1: Thanks Colpy.

 

[Hank C]

I too am glad the protests were peaceful, the Muslims certainly have every right to protest peacefully.

BUT, the protest just shows how little they understand the very rights they are exercising.....freedom of speech and freedom to protest.

Colpy, you basically made the point I wanted to make.......so why restate it :wink:

If I know my son (and I do),if he was in Toronto he would of been right there downtown protesting for the freedom of speech.....call him a racist skinhead if you want, but hes right!

 

[Jersay]

Yeah, so I guess it is perfectly fine to criticize and bad mouth religions, huh, which those people who claim freedom of speech do. I am just sick and tired of f-ing intolerence of people claiming free speech.

Muslim people and their anti-semetic articles and cartoons, as well as, these western newspapers and their cartoons. It is disqusting.

 

[Jersay]

Colpy, you basically made the point I wanted to make.......so why restate it

If I know my son (and I do),if he was in Toronto he would of been right there downtown protesting for the freedom of speech.....call him a racist skinhead if you want, but hes right!

Yeah allowing free speech that degrogates another people or religion. Some free speech we got there.

Can't wait till Islamophobia is made a crime, which the provincial government in Quebec has said it will do, and the federal government is thinking as well.

 

[FiveParadox]

Responsible Free Speech

I don't understand your argument, Colpy; we need unabridged free speech, in particular for the purpose of offending others? This makes no sense, in my opinion — should we not be striving, in a free, modern and democratic society, to express our opinions, and have others understand them, without resorting to offense?

Nevertheless, I would hope, as I believe does Jersay, that our hate propaganda laws are enforced to a degree so as to make some of the comments I have heard in recent days unlawful in Canada — I don't know how many times I have heard my Muslim friends and acquaintances in Canada referred to as "barbarians" and "savages," simply because people who happen to share their religion are protesting with undue violence an entire ocean away.

Hm.

Some Christian guy robbed a 7-Eleven of a chocolate bar.

I think I'm gonna hate Christianity now; those damned thieves...

 

[nitzomoe]

Re: RE: Peaceful Muslim Protests in Toronto and Montreal

You are SUCH a typical lefty.....your definition of freedom seems to be : "You have every right to free speech....as long as you agree with me"

sounds like the typical facist rightwing argument actually

by representing the prophet of a religion as a terrorist you are making every single muslim a terrorist by default which happens to be a hate crime under Canadian Law.

your arguments have consistently been made up of tortured logic and slippery slope arguments.

its the content of those cartoons which is important not the fact they publicised a caracture eluding to be a prophet nobody has actually seen.

 

[I think not]

One can argue that the left when comparing Bush to Hitler is hate, yes, no?

 

[sanch]

60% of Canadians hate Americans according to many public opinion polls. 3/4 of my family is Amercian and I am deeply offended. I think all negative speech in respect to Amercians should be outlawed in Canada. And I would hope that all negative comments about conservatives be outlawed as well as these are deeply offensive to a large segment of the Canadian population.

 

[Hank C]

I would think the counter-protesters would be protesting against western censorship by a religion which does not allow women voting rights, or even human rights to say the least....ect. Either that or protesting against the protesters, because they believe in freedom of speech.

Can't wait till Islamophobia is made a crime, which the provincial government in Quebec has said it will do, and the federal government is thinking as well

Seeing as how if you mention Jesus or the United States, most Quebecers would go into an uproar.........the same laws should be applied to Christianity, and while we are at it we might as well outlaw anti-Americanism. Its only fair using the logic of the left extremists.

 

[nitzomoe]

One can argue that the left when comparing Bush to Hitler is hate, yes, no?

no for a variety of reasons but we are going off topic

protesters they have a legitimate point, the cartoon specifically portraying mohammed as a terrorist essentially promotes the idea that Mohammed's followers are all terrorists which is discrimination as well as being hate material, this is a fact.

If I drew the Aga Khan as a terrorist it essentially means all Ismaeili's (followers of aga khan) are terrorists which is discrimination and hate material.

If I draw Jesus christ walking around with a machete killing off babies and murdering ppl left right and center I am essentially propogating the idea that Jesis is a homicidal maniac and all of his followers are essentially the same to follow such a madman, this also constitutes promotion of hate material.

Its not the fact they publisiced a cartoon of Mohammed thats the issue it is blatand hate material which calls all muslims terrorists.

 

[Finder]

I'm not touching the debate in this thread. lol. But I'll say they have the write to protest peacefully, but they should relieze that Canada is a modern nation and not a Christian or a Islamic theocracy and we defeand our freedom of speech. PLUS stupidity like, you touch our prophet we will touch yours or something like that, few Canadians would take not and I doubt we'd be burning down Saudi embassies either. Plus if they ever do make fun of Jesus *rolls eyes* they will be poking fun at one of there own prophets anyways and going against there holy book.

I may not completely agree with this site but what she says here is true.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004469.htm

 

[mattyaloo]

Jersay you are so lost.

Freedom of speech is directly connected to offensive speech. That is the very test of free speech: we have the right to say and print that which is offensive. If that right is challenged, so too is free speech.

It is not the free speechers who are intolerant, it is the muslim protesters. If they don't believe in free society they should choose to live in one.

Don't be so one-sided.

 

[Jersay]

Jersay you are so lost.

Freedom of speech is directly connected to offensive speech. That is the very test of free speech: we have the right to say and print that which is offensive. If that right is challenged, so too is free speech.

It is not the free speechers who are intolerant, it is the muslim protesters. If they don't believe in free society they should choose to live in one.

Don't be so one-sided.

I am siding with a group of people that I believe that are being discriminated against, because that is what the cartoon was meant to do in Denmark. If it was a anti-sematic I would be siding with the protestors of any cartoon or article.

If Freedom of Speech is suppose to be offensive, why do we have anti-semitism as a crime and arrest people who say the Holocaust does not exist. You can't have it both ways.